Playing Journey - Separate Ways

[eric]

I realize this is fairly niche to be talking about one song...though it's an iconic song and I imagine there are folks here with some thoughts about it. Maybe @EscapeRocks in particular! 🙂

 

Talk to me about how you're setting up sounds for this. My new band Is learning it and even though I grew up in the '80s loving Journey, I have never ever played Separate Ways (or Don't Stop Believing for that matter) in a cover band!

 

I use a Nord Stage 3 and have created a split sound with the main synth sound used for intro and verse/chorus, with a high flute type sound up top for that part near the end. I am still practicing the main riff to be able to execute this while playing the flute line at the end. I am debating about a different kind of synth brass sound for the verse chords. It's a great song and really fun to play! I'm torn on how I want to exercise the main riff while playing the flute lead, as my right hand likes the main riff better than my left hand, and currently I have my left hand reaching over my right to grab the flute lead...still working on the mechanics of this.

 

This song was originally done on a Jupiter 8 (at a minimum), which had no touch sensitivity, so I debate on how close I want to replicate that vs. using a bit of velocity on the synths or even layering a CP80 sound in the background. How much of a purist should I be? I could also go in new directions to make it my own...yet it's such a perfect keyboard song as it stands.

 

Thanks!

[mate stubb]

Forget synth programming, practice your air playing instead.

 

[CEB]

I use the Kronos patch called "Seperate Ways" .  When the song was newish I used a Valhalla D-50 program called "Seperate Ways" .  LOL

[Bill H.]

Speaking as another keyboard player who's never played Separate Ways but has heard it a gazillion times, I didn't realize that there is a high flute-ish part towards the end. And just listening for it on my notebook computer (with it's admittedly crappy speakers), I can barely make it out. If it's a reach to grab it, I know what I'd do. 

[ProfD]

The Nord Stage 3 is capable of duplicating the sound(s) Jonathan Cain is playing on the Jupiter 80.

 

49 minutes ago, eric said:

...I debate on how close I want to replicate that vs. using a bit of velocity on the synths or even layering a CP80 sound in the background.

Of course, I would totally suggest layering an EP sound and owning it.😁😎

[Stokely]

I'm lazy, I used one sound for the whole thing.  Just a basic plucky saw 80s type of poly.  You can always set a control for cutoff if you want to tone down the sound during the verse.   

For that high part (if I bothered with it--as Bill H noted, I don't really consider that any kind of essential part), then yeah that was generally another sound (either a 2nd keyboard or on a split).

[Canoehead]

Love this song!  Really love playing it!  Packs the dance floor every time.  I split my keyboard (Nord Stage or Kronos) with the intro patch on the right, verse/chorus patch in the middle and the fluty patch on the left.  The verse/chorus patch is a slight tweak of the intro patch.  
 

cheers,

Gord

[Bill H.]

15 minutes ago, Canoehead said:

I split my keyboard (Nord Stage or Kronos) with the intro patch on the right, verse/chorus patch in the middle and the fluty patch on the left.  
 

cheers,

Gord

 

I like this solution. 

[EscapeRocks]

In my Journey Trib Band:

 

I use Arturia Jup8V for the intro sound, and the body of the song.

 

Until the pre-chorus part of the verse, the main Em D C part has a little slower attack and fast decay.  Pre chorus and chorus is fast attack

 

The intro tone is a bit different than the verse tone.  So, I use my 88 note board, split, of course.  Intro part up top, main body everything lower than that.

 

The high Piccolo type sound during the breakdown, is a completely identifiable part of the song.

I use my 61 note board up top, with it programmed on the lowest E to B.

 

I use Arturia ProphetV, and dialed my own so it cuts thru

 

I am using a little Dimension D chorus...very little, and slow rate on all.  It helps fatten the sound.

 

[Moonglow]

I use a Registration in my Jupiter-80 that includes a patch called “Classic Ways” for that iconic synth intro. From the last couple of times I’ve seen Journey, it sounds like the same patch Jonathan Cain uses. The Registration has the Classic Ways patch as the upper split, and the synth brass (verses) as the lower split. For the pre-chorus (“Feelin’ that it’s gone…”) and chorus, I use a thick “analog” string/pad program on my Kronos 88.

 

During the break that features the “whistle” lead, I use a JP-80 Registration that maintains the Classic Ways patch as the upper split, and the whistle lead as the lower split. Pretty sure Jonathan does it this way, as well. It takes some practice to play the two parts together.

 

I’m still amazed at the crowd response when the song starts with that intro. I want to say, “Trust me, it’s not hard to play. I can show you how to do it using just the index finger on each of your hands!” 

[The Real MC]

My fingers are *just short enough* that I have to play the intro/main riff with two hands (except the breakdown at the end).

I use an Oberheim-style brass pad for the main riff.  The verse and chorus are a similar patch with VCF cutoff lowered and slower EG transients.  It may be a Jupiter-8 in the video, but it sounds more like an Oberheim.

 

That breakdown near the end does take some practice with two hands, fortunately I am a piano player with hand independence from playing ragtime.  That "whistle" patch sounds more like a choir in high registers.  When I last played the song in a band, I added Taurus bass pedals with my feet on the 2nd half of the breakdown - very bold sound, especially with our FOH engineer who liked to blast those Taurus pedals through his subwoofers.

Other than the Taurus pedals, all the sounds came from my Andromeda.

 

All that and I was singing the harmonies too.

It's a fun song to play, always packs the floor.

[Josh Paxton]

When I did this in my cover band days, I too used the same sound for the intro riff and the pads under the verse, split with a whistle-y square wave sound for the solo. I played the solo line with my left hand, while keeping the main lick going with my right. Initially I had the whistle sound on the high end and would reach over, simply because the pitch ranges made it easier to set up that way. Eventually I stopped being lazy and set up a split with that sound on the bottom, which made that part simpler to execute... but then I realized I didn't like it as much. Reaching over with the left hand was a Stupid Keyboardist Trick that non-players found impressive, so I went back to doing it that way.

 

Also, after my band had been playing the song for a few months and the arrangement had started to "evolve," I had to have the following conversation with the band leader/guitarist...

 

Me: Hey, I was wondering if we could go back to playing the old version of "Separate Ways."

 

Him: What do you mean? What old version?

 

Me: The version where the guitar doesn't wheedle all over the keyboard solo.

 

Him: There's a keyboard solo?

 

Me: Yeah. The part after the guitar solo, where it repeats the intro riff and then there's that little keyboard melody.

 

Him: Oh. I never really thought about that, but okay.

 

Oh, and for the record...

 

3 hours ago, mate stubb said:

 

 

 

I have played the song at that location – Mardi Gras World in New Orleans, where they store the floats when they're not in use. Did I mount a keyboard to the wall just for the occasion? No. Did I give it serious consideration? Absolutely.

[o0Ampy0o]

6 hours ago, mate stubb said:

Forget synth programming, practice your air playing instead.

 

 

My nomination for most cringeworthy music video of all time. Journey even realized they were so bad at the air playing they committed to fake concert style MV's going forward. These guys were into looking cool. I recall seeing an ad stating "no Journey types" referring to the stylish clothing. Yet they did not speak up and say the over the top air playing is not our thing. They all seem very self-conscious. That typically plays out unfavorably in a public display. 

[o0Ampy0o]

3 hours ago, The Real MC said:

My fingers are *just short enough* that I have to play the intro/main riff with two hands (except the breakdown at the end).

I use an Oberheim-style brass pad for the main riff.  The verse and chorus are a similar patch with VCF cutoff lowered and slower EG transients.  It may be a Jupiter-8 in the video, but it sounds more like an Oberheim.

 

That breakdown near the end does take some practice with two hands, fortunately I am a piano player with hand independence from playing ragtime.  That "whistle" patch sounds more like a choir in high registers.  When I last played the song in a band, I added Taurus bass pedals with my feet on the 2nd half of the breakdown - very bold sound, especially with our FOH engineer who liked to blast those Taurus pedals through his subwoofers.

Other than the Taurus pedals, all the sounds came from my Andromeda.

 

All that and I was singing the harmonies too.

It's a fun song to play, always packs the floor.

 

Taurus pedals, they didn't think of everything. I can imagine how much better that made this great song. What stood out most to me when this came out was how it was their first footstomping song that did not use weird for rock elements. Up to this point they had been doing things to be different it seemed. Now it was like they just dedicated themselves to writing good music.

[Mighty Motif Max]

25 minutes ago, o0Ampy0o said:

3 hours ago, The Real MC said:

...

When I last played the song in a band, I added Taurus bass pedals with my feet on the 2nd half of the breakdown - very bold sound, especially with our FOH engineer who liked to blast those Taurus pedals through his subwoofers.

Other than the Taurus pedals, all the sounds came from my Andromeda.

Taurus pedals, they didn't think of everything. I can imagine how much better that made this great song.

I'll second that. As someone who finds the original song to be sorely lacking on bass presence (it's almost inaudible), I would bet that having a heavier bassline like that would sound awesome!  😎

[mate stubb]

30 minutes ago, o0Ampy0o said:

 

My nomination for most cringeworthy music video of all time. 

 

At least it didn't single handedly kill their careers, unlike a certain guitar hero goofy dancing ...

 

[Stokely]

As a bit of an aside, that album (Frontiers) has just about the most reverb-heavy production I've ever heard in a rock album.  Still well-mixed but they started with the driest instrument having "lots" when it came to verb and just went up from there   

[Justin Havu]

When I used to play in a cover band, I just used a MODX-7, my only board.  Basic sawtooth patch across the whole keyboard.  Whistle sound was mapped to the lowest E-B on the keyboard, and played with the left hand.

[eric]

6 hours ago, Josh Paxton said:

When I did this in my cover band days, I too used the same sound for the intro riff and the pads under the verse, split with a whistle-y square wave sound for the solo. I played the solo line with my left hand, while keeping the main lick going with my right. Initially I had the whistle sound on the high end and would reach over, simply because the pitch ranges made it easier to set up that way. Eventually I stopped being lazy and set up a split with that sound on the bottom, which made that part simpler to execute... but then I realized I didn't like it as much. Reaching over with the left hand was a Stupid Keyboardist Trick that non-players found impressive, so I went back to doing it that way.

 

 

 

Thanks for all of the helpful responses from many folks that have played this song for years! Josh, I am in the same camp as my brain initially said that I needed to set the whistle lead at the top of the keyboard and cross my left hand over...though I will also try the opposite and see how that goes.

 

Next up...Don't Stop Believing, also a song in the new band. I've got that one down pretty well and still can't believe I bought the album on vinyl new when it first came out and I'm just now getting around to playing it in a band!

[Shamanzarek]

I liked playing this song back in the early 80s. I used a Jupiter 6 which came pretty close to the main sound plus OB8 and Pro-One for additional sounds. Gotta find a band that wants to do this one again.

 

Jonathan Cain used a Jupiter 8 and Prophet 5 for playing it live in the old days. In modern times he uses a Jupiter 80 and some other keyboard.

 

Interesting Korg and Roland both did the same mis-spelling of "Separate" in their patch replications for this song.

 

Journey live from 1983:

 

[Joe Muscara]

12 hours ago, mate stubb said:

 

At least it didn't single handedly kill their careers, unlike a certain guitar hero goofy dancing ...

 

I saw an interview with him where he said the odd thing about was that’s pretty much how he danced and performed at his live shows and the crowd ate it up. I looked up some live clips on YT and there it was. So there was no reason for him to think that video was a bad idea. 
 

I didn’t know the Separate Ways video was shot in New Orleans. I’ve never been to that location on my visits, but there’s a lot of the city I still need to see. 
 

I’ve always liked that song, and when someone on the Casio Music Forums shared a clip of himself playing it on his CT-X, I asked him about the patch and he sent it to me. I’ve never played it with a band, I just do it for fun. 😁

 

@eric once you get Don’t Stop Believing, you’ll be ready to gig on Bourbon St! 😂

 

Seriously, have fun with these crowd pleasers. 

[o0Ampy0o]

I had not seen that video and did not know it was Billy Squire from the still frame and his name was not mentioned. Took a while to get a Google hit but the words that worked were “dancing guitarist music video that ruined career.”

 

I was on my iPad. I watched most of it with the sound off. I did not know the song by its title. In silence I thought the video was a take on the What A Feeling music video from Flashdance. His looks and some of his moves are a little like Jennifer Beals except he has white and pastels to her black clothing.
 

His dancing demonstrates why most guys should avoid dancing. I’m sure you bandites have observed more than I have. Some of the quirkiest dancers believe they are good dancers. I remember a dude dancing something like this in a club a decade before Seinfeld aired.

 

[stoken6]

12 hours ago, eric said:

Next up...Don't Stop Believing, also a song in the new band. I've got that one down pretty well and still can't believe I bought the album on vinyl new when it first came out and I'm just now getting around to playing it in a band!

It's one of those songs, like Don't Stop Me Now or Africa, that has a second life with today's youngsters. I didn't gig it for 30 years, and now it's everywhere.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Moonglow]

My claim to fame was being at the concert the first time Journey played SW live, before they recorded it. The band wrote the song while on the road and debuted it in Chicago, at the then-called Rosemont Horizon. You can tell the song was not in final form, a few of the words are different, and some of the keyboard fills are missing.

 

I was blown away when they played it. When the song ended it was like, WTF was that?

[CEB]

I STILL call it the Rosemont Horizon.  

[counterpoint]

Our band played this at a small private party at a Jersey shore house last summer.  After we finished, and only for this song, we heard whooping from the other side of the fences on either side of the house.  Like it or not, it definitely has an energy and passion that blurs generational distinctions (and neighborly angst apparantly).  It's fun to play as a keyboardist because it comes off as being complicated...even though it's really not.  What's cool musically about it though, IMO, is the interesting interplay between the bass and chords...particularly in the pre chorus and under the synth solo segment.  I figured that out when our bass player, who is very good, really struggled to get the bass line straight under the pre-chorus. 

 

As a side note, we had two lead guitarists for that gig so one of them played the whistling synth part...felt it was better to give it up and keep one of them busy playing something that should be in the mix...the adage about an idle mind being the devil's playground takes on a whole new meaning when it comes to lead guitarists... 🤪

[Stokely]

Yep.  The lead player in one band started "noodling" after every single vocal line.  He started playing the few keyboard signature licks I had in that band (not even solos, talking like U2's New Year's Day electric grand melody).    The rhythm player played big fat cowboy chords on an SG in every key by using a capo. I have absolutely no urge to be in a multi-guitar band again.

Don't Stop Believin' in a bar is hilarious (played by a band or on the jukebox).  You will invariably hear multiple out-of-tune very loud female voices singing along.   Auditory pheromones or something.

We'd do more Journey but nobody can sing most of their tunes, even tuned down a half step.  That includes our female (alto) lead singer.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

Don't Stop Believin' in a bar is hilarious (played by a band or on the jukebox).  You will invariably hear multiple out-of-tune very loud female voices singing along.   Auditory pheromones or something.

Truth. The sound of summer 2023.

 

Cheers, Mike

[wineandkeyz]

I use a split on my S70XS, with the patch for signature intro riff on the left and patch for the flutey part on the right. And I use a layered synth brass patch on the Jupiter-80 for the rest of the parts.

 

I originally learned the opening riff one-handed, but two surgeries on my left hand over the past 10 years have affected my “reach.” So now I switch back and forth between playing it with one or both hands.

[Moonglow]

Here’s a video where Jonathan talks about how he uses velocity sensitivity on the JP-80 during the whistle lead. Starts around 2:20. I’m a little surprised by this. I just programmed the whistle and synth patches at the appropriate levels within the registration.