To Hardware or Software or Both--Which to Play?

[ProfD]

Every now and then, a thread pops up about a piece of hardware and a comment will be made about using software.

 

It's true.  Software covers the bases in terms of sound and functionality.  The sonic difference between hardware and software has diminished.

 

A few years ago, I did a listening test between a Sequential Prophet 6 and Prophet 5 software.  The difference was negligible when comparing the same sounds.

 

However, software does require the following:

 

1) Host (computer, laptop, tablet, iPad, cell phone)

2) Audio Interface

3) MIDI Controller (KB or pad)

 

These hardware devices have to be configured and optimized in order to work smoothly. 

 

MIDI controllers require a template or MIDI Learn in order to provide tactile control of recording transport and sound design parameters.

 

Hardware KBs are simply plug and play.  Turn on the power and go.  Unless it's a Korg KB with a 3 minute boot time.😁

 

Hardware KBs are fully integrated and tactile to varying degrees.  The computer chip inside is optimized so that everything works together seamlessly.  No latency.

 

Hardware KBs can be expensive, heavy and older units may require maintenance. The FTEC (Finger to Ear Connection) is hard to beat.

 

Hobbyists and studio musicians have more time resolve issues that arise with a software rig.  Gigging musicians may not have the same luxury.

 

A hybrid rig consisting of a ROMpler, DP or synth as a KB MIDI controller and software will become standard fare. 

 

In a gig situation, having a self-contained hardware KB of some kind insures the show will go on even if the software crashes. 

 

IOW, there are pros and cons to both rigs...hardware and software.  Nowhere did I mention price/cost as a factor because it's irrelevant. 

 

To compare hardware and software requires  1) considering needs and 2) looking at the forest. 😎

[Tusker]

Yours is a provocative and enticing opening to a thread. I've gigged both and they can work for different contexts. As one of our brethren said (was it David Emm?) Keyboards are a buffet. That said, it's too delicious not to respond so here goes! This is just my experience.

 

38 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Every now and then, a thread pops up about a piece of hardware and a comment will be made about using software.

 

It's true.  Software covers the bases in terms of sound and functionality.  The sonic difference between hardware and software has diminished.

True for me for: Analog synths and electro-mechanical keyboards. Not true for me for: Grand Pianos. My software pianos (better than any stage piano sample by a mile) will run and hide if they see a well regulated piano.

38 minutes ago, ProfD said:

1) Host (computer, laptop, tablet, iPad, cell phone)

2) Audio Interface

3) MIDI Controller (KB or pad)

 

These hardware devices have to be configured and optimized in order to work smoothly. 

Since I use a Mac, no audio interface is required. A MIDI connection to a keyboard is no harder to plug in than an extra pedal .  Besides, in an all hardware environment, things (gain staging) still need to be configured and optimized. Get a Mac. Thank me later.

38 minutes ago, ProfD said:

MIDI controllers require a template or MIDI Learn in order to provide tactile control of recording transport and sound design parameters.

This depends right? If you are playing a B3 or a Prophet 5, you won't need to fuss with setting up controllers. But if you are playing a MODX or a Kronos you are. So that's not really hardware versus software. It's analog/electromechanical versus digital. The B3 is straightforward. But good luck lifting that B3 up some stairs. 

38 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Hobbyists and studio musicians have more time resolve issues that arise with a software rig.  Gigging musicians may not have the same luxury.

Every top pop tour I see has at least one laptop. If you are professional you bullet-proof your rig whether it's hardware or software.

38 minutes ago, ProfD said:

In a gig situation, having a self-contained hardware KB of some kind insures the show will go on even if the software crashes. 

But software doesn't crash. Not mine anyway. Did you use a Mac? Besides if the power goes out, it's just the singer and drummer leading group singing in the dark. Been there done that.

 

Love ya ProfD! 

 

[Redknife]

Nice overview. I would like to add the concept of gigging as a driver of rig performance regardless of hardware vs software, Gigging forces you to troubleshoot quickly. That may be hardware or software. For example, I'm setting up a new W11 PC laptop and working through latency issues. I'm still working on it because I am not able to gig currently. were I to have a gig this weekend using software in my new W11 PC I would quickly go through every setting known to affect latency and scrutinize every plugin. It would even be in the cards to buy a different laptop. Without a gig, it will be a long process. Gigging, therefore, may not only affect your choice of gear, but also drive you to efficiently get what you need out of your gear.

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, Tusker said:

Yours is a provocative and enticing opening to a thread. 

Brotha @Tusker, you know how I do mayne.😁

 

On occasion, I'll start a start a thread to stimulate discussion.

 

I'm not expecting this thread to become a sprawling novel similar to a new piece of gear or a certain manufacturer or musician or theory or perfect pitch.🤣

 

Also, no need for a PC vs Mac style debate when it comes to hardware and software. 

 

The great news is that we have a number of choices in both hardware and software.  Wonderful times to be a musician.😎

[Tusker]

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

Also, no need for a PC vs Mac style debate when it comes to hardware and software. 

 

Yes, these are just tools. Each tool is good for certain things. Gigging with software is becoming easier all the time.

 

 - Audio interfaces are not required for gigs. The headphone outputs on MacBooks are high quality.

 - Software is not prone to crashing at gigs. It's been very hard to crash a Mac over the last ten years.

 

What about Windows? A perfectly stable Windows gig-rig is certainly possible and quite common. However if you are concerned about stability as it appears you are, try a Mac. They are simpler for gigs, just as a stage piano is simpler than a keyboard workstation.

 

I don't write code anymore. If I was writing code today, a Windows environment would offer me more tools and power. I'd use Windows.

[CEB]

I use hardware because I’ve always used hardware.  I have some reasons but as my Chess coach would say the reasons are probably more stories than real analysis.   With software I could be playing my S90XS tonight instead of the the sh***y action on this Kronos 2-88.   I use hardware because I always have.  I’m retired as a real player. I hate to make a big investment retooling right now.  

[Reezekeys]

To me it's about balancing the features and options you want. Ease of setup, cost, schlepability, sound quality... we all have different tolerances for what we can accept, and what's most important to us in those categories. In the beginning, as a bit of a tech nerd into programming things I enjoyed the challenge of setting up a (to me) good sounding and good feeling rig to play with the tool I already had – my laptop. That was the start, and I just kept on that road. Now with iOS and iPadOS, an entry-level iPad and seven-year old iPhone, along with inexpensive and powerful software like AUM, Midiflow, AudioLayer and Streambyter, I get to have a rig that's ridiculously easy to carry, feels good to play, and sounds very satisfying to me. Yes I do have to plug in a few more things at a gig, and I understand the appeal of putting a hardware board on a stand, switching it on and being good to go. If that's your groove and you're happy with it then end of discussion!

 

[ProfD]

4 minutes ago, Tusker said:

What about Windows? A perfectly stable Windows gig-rig is certainly possible and quite common. However if you are concerned about stability as it appears you are, try a Mac. They are simpler for gigs, just as a stage piano is simpler than a keyboard workstation.

Pardon I wrote anything misleading but personally I have zero interest in using a software rig.  I wrote my essay for the conflicted.🤣

 

The funny thing is that I'm fully computer-literate and proficient in sound design and recording.  I've thoroughly enjoyed my time with synths, samplers, ROMplers, workstations, recording equipment and software too. 

 

The reality is that I'm old man now. I can accomplish 99% of what I do musically with a KB rig consisting of a Rhodes or DP and a synth/sampler up top or in slang terms...a 2 piece chicken combo.😁😎   

[The Real MC]

On the used market, software plugins/modelers do not command anywhere near the market price of the vintage hardware.
Players gleefully proclaimed that modelers would drive down the market value of vintage hardware.  It has never happened.
When an OS upgrade renders your software obsolete, the hardware will still run.

By day I am a fully computer-literate systems engineer and I refuse to use a mobile or laptop on a stage.  Have seen too many of them crash during a show.

[Tusker]

14 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Yes I do have to plug in a few more things at a gig, and I understand the appeal of putting a hardware board on a stand, switching it on and being good to go. If that's your groove and you're happy with it then end of discussion!

 

Very well said. 👍 👍

[Reezekeys]

43 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

On the used market, software plugins/modelers do not command anywhere near the market price of the vintage hardware.

 

That's a reason to prefer hardware over software for doing gigs? Anyway, I hope you're right - since I haven't gotten around to installing Synthchaser's rebuild kit into my OBXa yet!

 

43 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

Players gleefully proclaimed that modelers would drive down the market value of vintage hardware.  It has never happened.

 

Again, that's great for us vintage synth owners! I don't see it as a knock against choosing software to play a gig with though. I'm also curious about these players you mention that are "gleefully proclaiming" anything - really? I guess there's time for that in mom's basement.

 

43 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

When an OS upgrade renders your software obsolete, the hardware will still run.

 

Yea I do have to keep track of stuff like that. Somehow I made it work over the past 17 years of working with a laptop, through changing OSes and architectures (G4 to Intel to Apple Silicon). Only in the last two months did I encounter my first instance of obsolescence: Piz Midi's MidiChords plugin would no longer run on my new Apple Silicon Mac. Luckily, I found a different app that was similar. Not a shock - it was abandoned many years ago, and free too. I was lucky to have it for the time I did.

 

43 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

By day I am a fully computer-literate systems engineer and I refuse to use a mobile or laptop on a stage.  Have seen too many of them crash during a show.

 

Never had my computer crash during a show - not once in 17 years. I did have one incident of my MOTU audio interface disconnecting, which is why I switched to using my headphone output. I also had a USB stick I was using for sample streaming (my mistake!) die in the middle of a show but it was right before a drum solo and I had time to attach the spare I brought. So, two incidents in 17 years - one of which made for a slightly longer pause between songs (the interface disconnecting) - not too bad, imo. I've read plenty of posts here about hardware boards acting up, one brand in particular.

[David Emm]

Yeah, I called it a buffet, but if I was playing live, I'd become a Nord man easily. The minute you add even one more synth or module, your rig starts sprouting cables out of necessity. That's almost as big a matter as having the musical firepower you need for the show. Its fun to debate, but also highly subjective per player.
   
The longer my M1 Mac Mini holds up, the more I feel as though I could trust one live. There will always be a small trust issue with the added concerns about using a computer live. I never had my Korg 01W die at a show and Nords sound very similar. Crap synths are much less common than they once were.

 

Its tempting to have a healthy stack to show off, if you have roadies. It would be fun to emit live hugeness with Omnisphere, but for now, I'd personally vote for the added cartage of two solid keyboards (maybe a module as well) and a modest mixer. I might change my view if the next Macs jump ahead like the M1/2/3 chips jumped from Intel, but I literally have my hands full just playing. Its wise to remember that the audience doesn't really care about your rig, just the music.

[GovernorSilver]

I gained a new respect for those who use software for gig playing when I met the keyboardist of a local Genesis cover band - I think his name was Bill.  This was at Mid-Atlantic Keyboard Corner Hang, graciously hosted by @Markyboard.  

 

He had painstakingly assembled facsimiles of Tony Banks' various stage rigs over the years, within Mainstage on his Macbook Pro.  The sound were dialed in well enough to for a live audience that would not care about the fine details of physical vs. virtual analog synths, physical vs. virtual organs, etc.  as long as their beloved Genesis songs were performed to a suitably high standard of execution and entertainment value.   He also had Mainstage dialed in for fast preset changes for multiple sound sources (synths, organs, etc.).  So he could switch from one 7-9 piece virtual keyboard rig to another 7-9 piece rig in a second.

 

I forgot what his controller(s) of choice were.  There were too many other instruments at MAKCH calling my attention, such as Paolo Di Nicolontonio's (Synthmania) Korg Trident which was being repaired by Markyboard, ProfD's Prophet 6, etc.

 

 

I can't speak for the other attendees at MAKCH but I really appreciated the work that went into setting up a virtual rig for a serious live gig like that. 

[Moonglow]

I’ve been a hardware-only guy, but tempted to use an iPad like a “module” from back in the old days - especially for grand piano (e.g., Pianoteq).

[Doerfler]

4 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

I gained a new respect for those who use software for gig playing when I met the keyboardist of a local Genesis cover band - I think his name was Bill.  This was at Mid-Atlantic Keyboard Corner Hang, graciously hosted by @Markyboard.  

His name is Bill Whitney, GS.  The band is "Selling Fairfax By The Pound". 

Also, I corrected the spelling of the owner of the Korg Trident for you.

None of the three you mentioned in your post come around here anymore.

I'm having dinner with Synthmania tomorrow evening.  I'll try and persuade him to stop by sometime again. 

[uhoh7]

12 hours ago, Tusker said:

Yours is a provocative and enticing opening to a thread.

 

Late in life, my big binary is electric or acoustic. To my old ears, In a warm living room, a decent acoustic upright is a fire breathing monster, fearing no synth I've found. What comes off that big spruce slab is not reproducible with bouncing cones in cans or cabinets. For leads....I got a old Yamaha tenor which has no fear of the model D or 2600. It will knock them right across the room. I'm still a sucker for synths, pre-ordered the UB-XA, Osmose a whole new flavor, and last night I was looking a Roland V XT, god save me. Gigging or recording, the practical aspects of electric sound are legion. So much so it's possible to forget just how rich those unpowered "analog" vibrations can be. I tune my own now. It's a dynamic binary that keeps me going..knock on wood.

[Markay]

I am software only, but as cost is off the table I have nothing more to add.

[Tusker]

12 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

He had painstakingly assembled facsimiles of Tony Banks' various stage rigs over the years, within Mainstage on his Macbook Pro.  The sound were dialed in well enough to for a live audience that would not care about the fine details of physical vs. virtual analog synths, physical vs. virtual organs, etc.  as long as their beloved Genesis songs were performed to a suitably high standard of execution and entertainment value.   He also had Mainstage dialed in for fast preset changes for multiple sound sources (synths, organs, etc.).  So he could switch from one 7-9 piece virtual keyboard rig to another 7-9 piece rig in a second.

 

Yes indeed you can have very stable, complex rigs in a laptop. My rig was not as complex but for a Phil Collins / Later Genesis tribute, MainStage carried all the rigs I needed: various CP70 incarnations, Tony's Emulator samples which a tribute keyboardist from France was kind to send to me, CR78 samples for In The Air Tonight and Duchess, JD800 percussion sounds and so on. These could have been triggered from keyboard workstations of course. But the laptop rig could do it also. 36 songs prepared. Three one hour sets. No crashes.

[mcgoo]

To me, there are 2 types of instruments: Specialty instruments (DPs, clonewheels, etc) and do all machines (Romplers). There's no denying the convenience of a do all machine, but I've always preferred specialty instruments... Quality over quantity. That's where I think software has an advantage over hardware. A hardware rig full of specialty instruments would require a 70s era Wakeman sized rig. A software rig full of specialty instruments requires a controller or 2, a decent laptop and a bunch of VSTi's. 

[ElmerJFudd]

Being pleased with the sound is important for one’s own sense of satisfaction in the work.  
 

Ease of use is important in preparation for performance, as well as in the moment of performance.  
 

The features and capability of the set up meeting our needs is important.  
 

Feeling of control over the instrument’s keyboard action for expression and timing is important.  
 

Set up and breakdown taking a short time is important. 
 

How you arrive at what works for you - software, hardware, or a combination a various technologies is not important.   Although sharing with all of us what works for you can be a great help with people in similar situations!  
 

[Baggypants]

Put the software in hardware like https://zynthian.org

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, Baggypants said:

Put the software in hardware like https://zynthian.org

I remember when Open Labs did that with Neko and Meko.😎

[Tusker]

7 hours ago, Markay said:

I am software only, but as cost is off the table I have nothing more to add.

 

Hi Mark, we should hit the northern beaches again and talk shop! Nice to see you here. 👍

[zephonic]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

I remember when Open Labs did that with Neko and Meko.😎

 

A good idea poorly executed, but I guess the technology also wasn’t ready back then.

[ElmerJFudd]

15 minutes ago, zephonic said:

 

A good idea poorly executed, but I guess the technology also wasn’t ready back then.

There wasn’t much to this product for the price you know.  They just slapped a PC, keyboard, computer keyboard, monitor and audio interface in a case.  All off the shelf parts.  How was this going to succeed?  🤷‍♂️ 

[Tusker]

Openlabs hadn't thought through the rapid evolution of the market. Their solution was expensive and bulky. No doubt it was perfect for some larger pop tours. Similarly the Muse Recepter was a (software in a box) success for awhile. David Rosenthal used it for Billy Joel and so did other pop acts. It even saw Broadway use. Today, many Broadway shows like Hamilton and Donna Summer are anchored around laptops. Churches and pop tours are also. But the story is not over is it? Moore's Law appears to be continually adding stability, power and variety to our toolkit.

 

We don't have to follow the bleeding edge of technology however. If you have an inspiring connection to your instruments, if they help you speak, then you are a lucky musician with what you already have.

[EscapeRocks]

I use either/or depending on gig and venue.   Often I use a hybrid. 

[stoken6]

13 hours ago, Tusker said:

many Broadway shows like Hamilton and Donna Summer are anchored around laptops

On the subject of "Broadway shows"... my daughter has the Keys 1 chair in her school's production of Legally Blonde. The school has gone to town, hiring the "official" (?) sound set and running a Mac connected to her DP. All software.

 

I visited the pit for the London production of Groundhog Day, and that seemed to skew more towards hardware. Two keys players (keys 2 conducting this time), both had twin boards, with a clonewheel upstairs (VR09 and Numa Organ, from memory).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Markay]

16 hours ago, Tusker said:

 

Hi Mark, we should hit the northern beaches again and talk shop! Nice to see you here. 👍

That would me great, my life has been rebuilt from the bottom to the top, I think thats a lyric, since we last hooked up, so  PM and we'll put the top down and enjoy life on the edge.

[Tusker]

2 hours ago, stoken6 said:

I visited the pit for the London production of Groundhog Day, and that seemed to skew more towards hardware. Two keys players (keys 2 conducting this time), both had twin boards, with a clonewheel upstairs (VR09 and Numa Organ, from memory).

 

Mike, Tim Minchin can make me laugh before he says a word! A great show. 👍 Musical theater and pop tours illustrate that hardware and software are reliable these days. Taylor Swift's Eras tour was impressively analog. I thought I saw four polysynths. 😎 Yes my daughter dragged me there and my eye wandered. 😅

 

2 hours ago, stoken6 said:

On the subject of "Broadway shows"... my daughter has the Keys 1 chair in her school's production of Legally Blonde. The school has gone to town, hiring the "official" (?) sound set and running a Mac connected to her DP. All software.

 

That's a fun show! A group like keyboardTEK will set you up with books and sounds so the musicians can focus on what's really important. Congratulations to your daughter! That's awesome.