Introducing UB-Xa

[ABECK]

50 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I definitely could if I sold a couple keyboards not doing much right now.  Gah, giving myself ideas now...

 

Well, now it's our duty as GAS addicts to push you toward questionable decisions.  

 

[Stokely]

Oh please, Brer Fox, don't push me toward questionable purchases...it would be terrible to end up saddled with an Obx8!    

[marino]

I'm not an Oberheim expert, although my faithful Matrix-12 has lived with me for the past 30 years... plus I have had the chance to play a Four-Voice several times recently. I have certainly played the vintage OBs at times, and the OB-6 as well, but I'm not an authority on them. So I'm not sure how well this thing nails the sound of the OB-Xa, but it sounds lovely to my ears in the video, and also feature-rich, 16 voices with splits and layers, etc. Of course, I'd like to hear it in person without YT compression and added reverb. Speaking of which, I would have appreciated some built-in effects... purists could always disable them.  

About keyboard feel and poly AT, I didn't like the response of the Hydrasynth while I had it, and the Fatar action on the Iridium feels only slightly better to my fingers. So I'm *very* curious to test a (presumably) good Behringer action with the UB-Xa, given that I hate their current ones with a passion...

 

On 11/20/2023 at 10:49 PM, Jim Alfredson said:

Honestly, if they would've marketed this as a new analog inspired by the vintage polys of the early 80s and not tried to market it as an OB-Xa clone (complete with the iconic blue strips, knobs, and buttons), it would be better. 

 

I absolutely agree with this. When Behringer embarked in their "vintage for the masses" operation, they took a dangerous route in my opinion. They aim to make perfect replicas (with a few enhancements in some cases), and of course they are encountering both technical and ethical issues. They have launched or announced clones of instruments whose creators are, or were, still around designing similar instruments, or even reissuing the same ones Behringer are cloning. They claim complete freedom of action, sometimes bringing this attitude to disturbing extremes.

Now to contradict myself, I appreciate to have at home, after several decades, a decent, 'analog' minimoog clone which costs penauts, weights less than 2 kg and sounds good. And a 2600 clone which sounds even better. And I appreciate when they hire the original designers to make modern versions, like with the Polyvox for example.

But I've made a conscious decision to pass on the Pro-800, for example. (I already got the perfect replacement, just to avoid further temptations... ) And like many other musicians (I guess), I have mixed feelings about the whole Behringer synth storm. The main danger, to me, is to ruin the market for small firms that have innovative ideas for new instruments, who can be forced to keep the prices higher because they don't have the means to produce big quantities, purchase components in bulk or even make them in-house, etc. So with the marked inundated with inexpensive synths, the smaller or middle-ground manufacturers could struggle. I hope to be wrong.

 

 

 

[zxcvbnm098]

16 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

A good tech should be able to get the OB-Xa stable for another 40 years. The biggest weakness in all the early Obies (and pretty much all the vintage American synths, tbh) is the power supply. 

 

I got my OB8 running flawlessly with a new Fatar keybed and it plays and sounds incredible.

Speaking of power supplies, I was surprised to notice that this appears to have an internal PS. 

[marino]

4 minutes ago, zxcvbnm098 said:

Speaking of power supplies, I was surprised to notice that this appears to have an internal PS. 

 

Yeah, I forgot to mention that. A first for Behringer synths. And a *strong* plus point imo!

 

 

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, zxcvbnm098 said:

I got my OB8 running flawlessly with a new Fatar keybed and it plays and sounds incredible.

 

Did your OB8 have a pratt-read keyboard like my OBXa? And is the Fatar you used the typical bubble-membrane switch kind? I would think these two keybeds completely different and incompatible. That's pretty cool you got it working. I paused the rehab of my OBXa but not before replacing the bushings and cleaning the buss bar on my keyboard, so I'm not in need of a newer one. I just have a shit-ton of desoldering and soldering ahead of me (I have the Synthchaser kit to recap the voice cards)!

 

[OK - just googled and found this - https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.php?p=13273070&postcount=44 ]

[Jim Alfredson]

15 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Did your OB8 have a pratt-read keyboard like my OBXa? And is the Fatar you used the typical bubble-membrane switch kind? I would think these two keybeds completely different and incompatible. That's pretty cool you got it working. I paused the rehab of my OBXa but not before replacing the bushings and cleaning the buss bar on my keyboard, so I'm not in need of a newer one. I just have a shit-ton of desoldering and soldering ahead of me (I have the Synthchaser kit to recap the voice cards)!

 

[OK - just googled and found this - https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.php?p=13273070&postcount=44 ]

No, mine had the Matsushita keybed, the one with the bubble membrane. It was awful. Clanky, noisy, and despite cleaning still affected by mistriggers. The Fatar is awesome. Highly recommended. Here's the guy in Germany that sells the complete solution. Easy to install.

https://techsmechsvintagesynth.com/products/tm-8-oberheim-ob-x-xa-8-keyboard-replacement-kit

[mpn_user7629]

People can bark and rant all they want, it IS an Oberheim OB-Xa.

 

Behringer has done it again, whether we admit it or not.

 

 

[Justin Havu]

16 hours ago, marino said:

Yeah, I forgo to mention that. A first for Behringer synths. And a *strong* plus point imo!

 

DeepMind 12 has an internal PSU.

 

[GRollins]

Somebody mentions Behringer and The Hate Squad shows up.

 

Anybody surprised?

 

Grey

[ABECK]

I'm curious if the sound has been updated since the videos that came out about a year ago.  I recall not being overly impressed at that time with what I was hearing.  Certainly this sounds better to my ears, but that could just be the FX.

[CEB]

Nice video ad.  I won't buy it, but they do a nice job of selling it. 

 

It's a modern day niche board.  I just don't want a fully dedicated board to pull off what the OB is great at.  Maybe if I was in an 80s UK synth pop band or something.  Otherwise a Kurzweil or Kronos or VA software is close enough.

[Jim Alfredson]

4 hours ago, mpn_user7629 said:

People can bark and rant all they want, it IS an Oberheim OB-Xa.

No, it isn't. At best it's a clone. But I wouldn't even call it that from the videos so far as it doesn't sound like an Oberheim. It sounds Oberheim-ish. 

 

3 hours ago, GRollins said:

Somebody mentions Behringer and The Hate Squad shows up.

 

Anybody surprised?

 

Grey

 

Oh sorry, am I not supposed to have an opinion on the sound of an instrument on a keyboard discussion forum? Shall I just nod my head in agreement with B**hinger's marketing blather? "Yes yes my overlord Uli... it sounds JUST like an OB-Xa, master! In fact, IT IS AN OB-Xa!"

 

[The Real MC]

1 minute ago, Jim Alfredson said:

No, it isn't. At best it's a clone. But I wouldn't even call it that from the videos so far as it doesn't sound like an Oberheim. It sounds Oberheim-ish. 

 You're too kind.  

 

I call it a counterfeit.

[ABECK]

4 hours ago, GRollins said:

Somebody mentions Behringer and The Hate Squad shows up.

 

Anybody surprised?

 

Grey

 

13 minutes ago, Jim Alfredson said:

 

Oh sorry, am I not supposed to have an opinion on the sound of an instrument on a keyboard discussion forum? Shall I just nod my head in agreement with B**hinger's marketing blather? "Yes yes my overlord Uli... it sounds JUST like an OB-Xa, master! In fact, IT IS AN OB-Xa!"

 

Behringer topics can def be polarizing.  Even in your response, you are quick to defend your opinion of the sound, then go right to disparaging their marketing material and referring to Uli as an Overlord.  I can see where someone might interpret that as having a proclivity towards disliking Behringer.

 

[ChazKeys]

2 hours ago, CEB said:

Nice video ad.  I won't buy it, but they do a nice job of selling it. 

 

It's a modern day niche board.  I just don't want a fully dedicated board to pull off what the OB is great at.  Maybe if I was in an 80s UK synth pop band or something.  Otherwise a Kurzweil or Kronos or VA software is close enough.

Are we going to see an 80s synth pop band revival?

 

If you don't have an analogue poly synth in your setup then this could be a good addition, But at £1499 people on a tight budget (like me!) would probably buy a Pro800 at a fraction of the price. In fact I think Behringer have set the  price too high although they posted this on their FB page "List Price: $1,499 (Stay tuned for a little surprise)". I'm not saying it's overpriced  just that  people have got used to buying 'budget' synths.

 

I don't expect it  to sound identical to an original Oberheim - I had an OB-6 and that didn't hit the Oberheim sweet spot either, more of a P-6 with State Variable filter. But it still made some great sounds!  But given the UB-Xa  spec - 3340 oscillators (and we know Behringer can make them sound big viz Neutron), 3320 filters plus the classic architecture with cross mod, sync etc. I would be gutted if I couldn't create some great patches with it.

 

According to the manual it weighs in at 12Kg so it could have an all metal chassis. The Deep Mind was a good solid build too. Looks like one of their better paint jobs as well.

 

My prediction - introductory price of £1299.

 

[Jim Alfredson]

35 minutes ago, ABECK said:

 

Behringer topics can def be polarizing.  Even in your response, you are quick to defend your opinion of the sound, then go right to disparaging their marketing material and referring to Uli as an Overlord.  I can see where someone might interpret that as having a proclivity towards disliking Behringer.

 

I do dislike B**hringer but my initial post in this topic only dealt with the sound. Dismissing valid criticisms of the product itself as 'hate' is lazy. in fact, dismissing valid criticism of the company's policies (which again, I refrained from bringing up in this thread) as 'hate' is lazy, too.

As I and others have said, if they didn't try to sell this as an Oberheim, it would actually be an more intriguing product. It has some nice features, like the Deepmind. That's what they should be doing; making new instruments inspired by the classics, with new features.

[Bill H.]

1 hour ago, ChazKeys said:

Are we going to see an 80s synth pop band revival?

 

 

 

Yeah that's a bit of an issue if this thing retails at $1500. When it was announced years ago (a simpler device with a projected price of about half that) I thought it would be cool to dink around with at home. That's barely above impulse purchase level.

 

But I have no real need for another all analog synth, and I don't see synthpop making a  comeback either.  So $1500... that gives me pause.

 

There was a real cool quote from Dave Smith years ago about his polyphonic aftertouch T8 (and I wish I could find it!) but to the best of my memory it went something like this:

 

Everyone said they wanted it. So we built it. And then it turned out that no one wanted it after all. 

[DroptopBroham]

1 hour ago, Jim Alfredson said:

I do dislike B**hringer 

 

He's right, you certainly are biased. You like the synth but dislike the way it's marketed, let me guess you like Bud Light but disliked their marketing effort too. If you like the beer, drink it. If you like the synth, play it.

 

 

Who cares about marketing campaigns? Korg's marketing for the Kronos was pretty stupid but that didn't change the fact that it was an awesome workstation (not awesome enough to pull me from Yamaha but still).

 

[Stokely]

Uh, there's a lot more to "disliking Behringer" than "disliking their marketing campaigns".  There have been many threads on there but long story short it's more about their business practices.  If you don't care about that, fine.  Nobody is ranting or hating as a few posters have said.   showing zero creativity 


As far as 80s sounds....I do some synth-heavy tunes live and I'm less than picky.  Played them on my Kurzweils, then my Modx and Summit, playing them now on my Nord Stage 3 (which has surprised me with how good the synth is.)   The only way I'd get this, or the Obx8 for that matter, is if I could convince myself to step out of the software box, and I probably won't do that just for the convenience factor.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, ChazKeys said:

Are we going to see an 80s synth pop band revival?

I don't think so.🤣

 

I would not buy any synth if I had to rely on YouTube demos either.😁

 

Rehashing 1980s synth technology is one thing.  Unless one is in a 1980s  cover or tribute band, there's no reason to use those exact same sounds in the same manner.

 

A synth should be a blank sound design canvas.  The challenge is to come up with useful sounds.  Especially in advance of AI.  No reason to get stuck on presets and/or sounds that HAL can produce. 

 

IMO, initializing a synth and going down the rabbit hole of sound design is the fun part. 

 

Otherwise, every ROMpler on the market already has the Jump patch. No synth required.🤣😎

[ABECK]

I totally get how business practices can influence buying decisions.  20 plus years ago I stopped buying anything from Monster Cable based primarily on their uber aggressive tactic to sue anyone having anything to do with the word "Monster".  That put more than one small company out of business.  (Oh, and they were overpriced cables that frequently shit the bed....so there was that.)  At the end of the day, I voted with my dollar and stopped buying from them.  I'm not familiar with how Behringer operates, other than they are making copies/clones/tributes of older gear.  That alone doesn't bother me, as there are countless instrument copies (e.g. strat, les paul, et al) in the market that most seem fine with.  But, I'm thinking there is more to the story (I'll look it up.  Not trying to de-rail this thread).

 

 

[Baggypants]

 

 

5 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

As I and others have said, if they didn't try to sell this as an Oberheim, it would actually be an more intriguing product.

 

Clonewheel Jim has spoken!

[o0Ampy0o]

A minor quibble. They diluted the initial impact of it being Oberheim anything by drowning the keyboard in that lighting. Seeing the reference would have reached your consciousness faster than reading the name with the distinct font or hearing the audio. The keyboard has the instantly associated pin strips but you cannot see them until 2 minutes into the video.

[Radagast]

Everyone needs to have an object to hate.  For some it’s their parents, or boss, or spouse, or politics, etc.  And for plenty of people here, it’s Behringer.  Personally I hate Korg more than I hate Behringer.

[EscapeRocks]

The only issue I see is trying to read a critique of an instrument itself, good or bad, when the person offering the critique has a long history of expressing their like or dislike of any company as a whole.  

It's okay to not like a company, and to let others know....

When that part shows up, though, anytime a new product comes out, the review, good or bad, is already colored in the reader's eyes. 

 

 

[RABid]

I think they are going to have to come down on that price. Way down. Poly-aftertouch is nice but for $1500 I can get a MODX+ with a DX7 inside, a 128 voice DX7, and a lot of other stuff. Or I can get a Fantom 0 which can cover a lot of vintage analog sounds, plus a lot more. $1500 is a tough place to compete right now.

[Baggypants]

A DX7? But why?

[The Real MC]

57 minutes ago, Baggypants said:

A DX7? But why?

 

You need at least 24 voices per note before they stop sounding thin.

[CEB]

Thin can be good.  It's how it fits within the pallet.   I always liked layering a Yamaha with  a Roland.   Two identical DX voices with one slightly detuned was always effective for me.  The beauty of ARP was they were thinner and more concise than a Moog.  But I'm just some crazy guy on the internet.