No More Line 6 Variax Guitars

[Anderton]

Apparently they've been discontinued, so between Gibson pretending their high-tech guitars never existed and Line 6 giving up (at least for now), it seems the concept of the high-tech guitar is no more.  

 

I can understand why, but still...my Gibson high-tech guitars do (well, at least did) things that no other guitar does, yet I find super-useful. Ditto the Variax. Well, I guess I'll play them as long as I can, until something dies and can no longer be replaced - or until something takes the concept to another level.

 

Frankly, I think the problem with the high-tech guitars isn't that they went too far, I think it's that they didn't go far enough

 

[Winston Psmith]

@Anderton- While I never took up the Variax Guitars, I've long been a Hex PU user, with two Godin Synth Access Guitars and an iGuitar 20.13. FWIW, I see that Roland is also abandoning the 13-pin Hex Pickup design, in favor of the new GK-5, which goes with their new GM-800 Guitar Synth. I heard John McLaughlin using one with Shakti recently, and I have to say, the tracking was extraordinary, or else how could it possibly keep up with John McLaughlin?

 

There seems to have always been some general reluctance or resistance to engaging with high-tech Guitars, for whatever reason? I don't know if it was the learning curve, or a misplaced sense that somehow a Modeling Guitar or a MIDI Guitar was "fake"? I do see many more players using MFX for Electronic and Synth-like tones, but even then, there's more emphasis on IR's and Amp Modeling than Synthesis of Guitar Modeling.

 

At a recent Electronic Music gathering, I was the only person with a Guitar, and that's often the case.

 

I hate to see this tech dying out, because it always seemed to me to be a way to finding the fullest level of expression from the Guitar as an Instrument, AND as a Controller. Maybe someone else will take it up, in some form?

 

 

 

[Dave Bryce]

Sorry to hear this.  I love my acoustic Variax.

 

dB

[Threadslayer]

1 hour ago, Dave Bryce said:

I love my acoustic Variax.

I honestly thought this was a joke until I looked it up.

Maybe I'll get one to use on my Mini Moog unplugged album. 🤔

[KuruPrionz]

I went with a Fishman Triple Play pickup many years ago and I am wondering/hoping that over the years they've improved the response.

It appears they still have them alive and well in the Fishman line up. I need to send them an inquiry.

That said, the Triple Play is a great tool for recording, I can play any MIDI based plugin, wireless through their USB dongle. 

I like being able to put the pickup on a favored guitar instead of being stuck with a guitar that I may not love. I have large hands and my preferred neck is a Warmoth Fatback with a nut width of 1 7/8", very wide. 

I also like that the Triple Play and the guitar electronics remain separate entities. 

[Anderton]

10 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

I like being able to put the pickup on a favored guitar instead of being stuck with a guitar that I may not love.

That's a big deal, and I think the biggest problem with the Variax was that it got off to a bad start - Saks 5th Avenue electronics in a Walmart guitar. Guitar players seem to have long, unforgiving memories. The Tyler Variax is - I mean, was - an outstanding guitar, period. It just happened to have Variax electronics.  

 

For MIDI, I'm currently using the Jamstik Studio MIDI guitar, which requires using their guitar. However, the tracking is the easiest to clean up I've found yet, the guitar is definitely decent, and it has real pickups so you can layer the two sounds. I'm quite happy with it, and with my general feelings toward MIDI guitar, that's saying a lot

 

2 hours ago, Winston Psmith said:

I've long been a Hex PU user, with two Godin Synth Access Guitars and an iGuitar 20.13

 

I love hex pickups. At least my Gibson HD.6X will be able to do that for the foreseeable future, because it doesn't depend on proprietary software - its Ethernet cable goes to a breakout box with six analog audio outputs. It's awkward compared to running into a computer's Ethernet or USB port, but hey, it works.

[KuruPrionz]

1 minute ago, Anderton said:

For MIDI, I'm currently using the Jamstik Studio MIDI guitar, which requires using their guitar. However, the tracking is the easiest to clean up I've found yet, the guitar is definitely decent, and it has real pickups so you can layer the two sounds. I'm quite happy with it, and with my general feelings toward MIDI guitar, that's saying a lot

Regarding clean-up, the biggest problem I've encountered is an organic one. I've migrated over time to using a heavy pick but I've had similar results with a medium pick, which is as thin as I'll go for single note work.

 

A pick is a "movable fret". 

 

When you pick a string, you divide it into 2 parts. The part between the pick and the bridge is picked up and since it is of extremely short duration and then transitions to the fretted note, it becomes a "glitch" sound. I spent considerable time trying to find a solution for this problem and using my fingers works 100% of the time. The pads of our fingers are too soft to create that initial "ping" that causes the glitch. 

 

Switching to playing with fingers has more or less reduced that tendency to zero. 

I'm faster with a pick than I am with my fingers so something is lost and something is gained. It's one of those tradeoffs I've chosen to make, I dislike the deep dive of fixing all the boogers in a recording, I prefer to avoid them even if it means changing the way I play. 

[Anderton]

1 hour ago, KuruPrionz said:

I dislike the deep dive of fixing all the boogers in a recording

 

So do I, but macros to remove all notes below a certain velocity or below a certain duration does wonders. I 'd estimate it slashes my MIDI guitar editing time by 85%.

[KuruPrionz]

39 minutes ago, Anderton said:

 

So do I, but macros to remove all notes below a certain velocity or below a certain duration does wonders. I 'd estimate it slashes the editing time by 85%.

Nice. I'm not up on using macros yet, something I need to learn. 

For now, I work to keep things simple and get good performances. I've got a backlog of songs I've written (and a very few choice covers) that I want to record. I'm pretty slow at actually getting things done but I've laid many side projects to rest so I have time to proceed. 

[RABid]

Variax is the guitar that I was always going to get next but kept putting it off over and over.

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, RABid said:

Variax is the guitar that I was always going to get next but kept putting it off over and over.

I played on one a couple of times. Not a guitar I really liked. I could have used it but I could easily have done without it (and I did do without it, no regrets).

[Ivan May]

8 hours ago, Winston Psmith said:

 

 

There seems to have always been some general reluctance or resistance to engaging with high-tech Guitars, for whatever reason? I don't know if it was the learning curve, or a misplaced sense that somehow a Modeling Guitar or a MIDI Guitar was "fake"? I do see many more players using MFX for Electronic and Synth-like tones, but even then, there's more emphasis on IR's and Amp Modeling than Synthesis of Guitar Modeling.

 

At a recent Electronic Music gathering, I was the only person with a Guitar, and that's often the case.

 

I hate to see this tech dying out, because it always seemed to me to be a way to finding the fullest level of expression from the Guitar as an Instrument, AND as a Controller. Maybe someone else will take it up, in some form?

 

 

 

I’m not generally a fan of the Roland guitar synthesizer either. I mean, Roland makes some great synthesizers and effects, but to try and make your guitar sound like a synthesizer to me? I don’t know how I feel about that…

[GovernorSilver]

18 hours ago, Anderton said:

Apparently they've been discontinued, so between Gibson pretending their high-tech guitars never existed and Line 6 giving up (at least for now), it seems the concept of the high-tech guitar is no more. 

 

 

Interest in guitars that can change their tuning at the flick of a switch or a footswitch stomp does seem to have gone away.   

 

Variax was the last major competitor to Roland this space, and often touted as superior to Roland in terms of maintaining good virtual guitar tones regardless of the tuning - the virtual guitar in Preston Reed's CGCGGD tuning should sound as good as it sounds in EADGDBE.  For Line 6 - a Yamaha company - to give up on Variax must mean sales/demand for this type of product is no longer high enough to justify production.

 

So now this leaves us with only Roland and small manufacturers making hexaphonic processors for hexaphonic guitarists who are more interested in audio processing and control voltage than making their guitar sound like a rompler.

 

https://stringjoy.com/hexaphonic-guitar/

 

https://www.cycfi.com/projects/nu-series/

 

https://www.synquanon.com/products

 

 

[KenElevenShadows]

23 hours ago, Anderton said:

 

 

Frankly, I think the problem with the high-tech guitars isn't that they went too far, I think it's that they didn't go far enough

 

 

What would you like to have seen that would go farther?

 

 

[Anderton]

1 hour ago, KenElevenShadows said:

What would you like to have seen that would go farther?

 

Well, mostly more audio sources from the guitar, not MIDI. No robot tuners, although an onboard tuner wouldn't be a bad idea.

• Multiple outputs: individual outputs for each string (hex out), piezo pickup output (for acoustic emulations), individual outputs for two magnetic pickups, and traditional mono output. These would be multiplexed over USB. Plug it into your computer, and all the outputs would be exposed to your DAW as inputs.
• A program for MacBook Air laptops. The program would be able to mix, pan, and route the outputs to a limited number of outputs for live use and surround outs up to 7.1.2 for the studio. It would be snapshot-based for easy recall. 
• For sophisticaed setups, the MacBook would host a DAW, and you could insert plugins for the various guitar sources. 
• Power would come from the computer via the USB cable - no batteries. If the MacBook Air meets the Thunderbolt/USB4 spec, it would be able to deliver 15W, which I think would be enough.
• Replace pickup tone controls with Varitone-type rotary switches that emulate six sounds: straight pickup, pickup with tone control rolled down, single-coil pickup, tapped coil pickup, out-of-phase pickup, acoustic sound (routes the piezo through the pickup output). These would be done with EQ, not rewiring the pickup on the fly.

I know this sounds like a UI nightmare that would terrify the tubes 'n' Teles crowd, but I think that with a proper app and presets, people could handle it. It would specifically not do MIDI. It would be more like a 21st century version of the Roland GR-300, where the tracking would be perfect because nothing would need to be tracked

 

 

 

[KenElevenShadows]

I sure do love the idea of multiple outputs.

[GovernorSilver]

11 hours ago, Anderton said:

 

Well, mostly more audio sources from the guitar, not MIDI. No robot tuners, although an onboard tuner wouldn't be a bad idea.

• Multiple outputs: individual outputs for each string (hex out), piezo pickup output (for acoustic emulations), individual outputs for two magnetic pickups, and traditional mono output. These would be multiplexed over USB. Plug it into your computer, and all the outputs would be exposed to your DAW as inputs.
• A program for MacBook Air laptops. The program would be able to mix, pan, and route the outputs to a limited number of outputs for live use and surround outs up to 7.1.2 for the studio. It would be snapshot-based for easy recall. 
• For sophisticaed setups, the MacBook would host a DAW, and you could insert plugins for the various guitar sources. 
• Power would come from the computer via the USB cable - no batteries. If the MacBook Air meets the Thunderbolt/USB4 spec, it would be able to deliver 15W, which I think would be enough.
• Replace pickup tone controls with Varitone-type rotary switches that emulate six sounds: straight pickup, pickup with tone control rolled down, single-coil pickup, tapped coil pickup, out-of-phase pickup, acoustic sound (routes the piezo through the pickup output). These would be done with EQ, not rewiring the pickup on the fly.

I know this sounds like a UI nightmare that would terrify the tubes 'n' Teles crowd, but I think that with a proper app and presets, people could handle it. It would specifically not do MIDI. It would be more like a 21st century version of the Roland GR-300, where the tracking would be perfect because nothing would need to be tracked

 

 

 

 

This may not be an exact 1-for-1 match of your requirements, but Keith McMillen Stringport is close.  It's a hardware-software package.  The hardware is the pickup and pickup to computer interface box.  The software includes polyphonic audio processing, synthesis, and MIDI conversion.

 

https://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/stringport-2/

 

They had more details at one point.  Dunno why they deleted the verbiage from the website.  But there's some info here

 

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=32079.0

 

They also announced StrongArm, a mechanical string sustainer which could be paired with Stringport

https://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/strongarm/

 

Both projects have been stuck in "in progress" status for years though.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Super unfortunate to hear of this...I only recently got into the Variax world with the acquisition of a nice blue 1st-gen Variax 600 - and I love it and the concept; it's become one of the most useful tools in my arsenal. I was under the impression at the time that a lot of the accessories (like the special DI/PSU) were hugely backordered but were expected to arrive in the US late this year. Glad the one I got came with the DI unit and PSU.

 

I always thought the Variax tech sounded much better than the Roland COSM technology (I have a GR-55 unit I use with a strat with a GK-3 pickup) - I can't stand how that sounds for guitar models, much less the acoustic ones. That was one area that I thought the Variax tech was really pretty good at - acoustic simulation, like the Dobros.

[Notes_Norton]

Related but not guitar.

 

I have a 1925 King Alto Sax that not only works today, but can be repaired by any decent woodwind tech. Pads? Springs? Cork? Even a part broken or dented from a fall can be fixed, and probably will be for another 100 years or more.

 

I have wind synthesizers that are no longer being manufactured. Yamaha gave us 3 models WX7, WX11, and WX5, in that order. They are nothing but wind MIDI controllers. There is some competition left, Akai and Roland each make one, but they have internal sounds, and playability issues that make them not as expressive for me. Thankfully, they are rugged, and I bought a few extra ones. I also bought some spare parts.

 

I use a Yamaha VL70m physical modeling synth module. The physical modeling is fantastic, nothing else comes close. Instead of feeling like I'm triggering a synth, it feels like I am playing a musical instrument. The nuances I initiate in the controller are expressed in the synth. My primary instrument is saxophone. The VL70m is the only sound module that reproduces the nuances of my sax playing. I actually use it for sax on stage. It's discontinued.

 

The wind synth (Controller + PM sound module) can do things, like emulating other wind instruments, that cannot be done with a keyboard or guitar synth.

 

I love my Master Tracks Pro MIDI sequencer. Without audio in it like modern DAWs, it's fast and easy to use. No long menus with sub menus and sub-sub menus. Every dialog box is available with a hover over the menu bar, the menu drops, and one click get you there. The editing features are wonderful, I don't see anyone with any better MIDI editing features. It's also orphaned, and doesn't work well on Win10/11.

 

Mrs. Notes bought a Buchla Thunder tactile MIDI controller in the 1980s. It does things a normal keyboard synth cannot. She has two because long ago they are discontinued. We had a power supply go out in one, and it had to be repaired by the only guy who has been with Buchla long enough to remember them. He said we are lucky it was the power supply, because many of the IC Chips on the main board are no longer manufactured, and there are no substitutes.

 

I started my duo with Mrs. Notes in 1985. At first, it was a 4-track reel-to-reel and mixed to cassette tape for my backing tracks. Later I bought a MIDI sequencer. This was Pre-Standard MIDI files, and used a proprietary system to store MIDI files. I used it for many years, and then it broke. By then, General MIDI and SMF were standard, and there was no way to convert the proprietary files to Standard MIDI files. I lost 300 backing tracks. Thankfully, GM came around, and I save all my files in both proprietary and Standard MIDI file format now.

 

When I started playing sax, my tenor was a used Selmer made in the 1930s. I don't have it anymore, but if I did, I could have it repaired as easily as the King Alto.

 

The Buchla Thunder, WX5 wind controller, Master Tracks Pro app, my first MIDI sequencer are bound to be as obsolete as an Atari/ST computer some day.

 

I've learned that the old physical instruments that have been here 'forever' have proved themselves.

 

The Variax is a little like Mrs. Notes' Thunder instrument. Potentially to become an orphan, obsolete, and no longer serviceable.

 

As wonderful as new cutting edge tech can be, it can also become a huge problem when it becomes orphaned.

 

I've learned not to rely on new tech for anything that I need to make my living with. If it can't be repaired and replaced, it might be a nice toy, but it's not going out gigging with me.

 

As I read in a magazine long ago, “The cutting edge can be the bleeding edge.”

 

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[Threadslayer]

3 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

I use a Yamaha VL70m physical modeling synth module. The physical modeling is fantastic, nothing else comes close.

Agreed. I had one for years and loved it. I'd still have it if I didn't have osteo-arthritis in the basal joint of my right thumb. Even with the neck strap, the weight of the WX7 was too painful to stand.

 

[KuruPrionz]

2 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

As I read in a magazine long ago, “The cutting edge can be the bleeding edge.”

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

True, I've had gear go south on stage more than once. 

A redundant system is a reliable system. I am a guitarist, I am also a guitar tech, made a living repairing and setting up other player's guitars (as well as my own). My favorite giggers are what I call "screwdriver guitars", a Tele and a Strat that I built from parts. The audience is there to enjoy music, a drink or two and maybe some dancing and social interaction. The music is there so they can have fun, they don't want to watch me trouble-shoot equipment. I have spares on the ready, my gigging system is fairly simple and some things have become a given.  know that condenser mics can be very reliable and sound great but can you depend on the source of phantom power? Maybe, maybe not. I've gravitated to using Shure KSM 8 for live vocals, with a Heil PR40 for backup. Both are sturdy dynamic mics and both sound very good. They are different but I can use either one to good effect. I always bring both of them. I have 3 Peavey Vypyr VIP 1 amps, two of them have 10" Scorpion speakers, the 3rd one is getting a Weber Neo-Mag. They are good amps but I will always have a spare since 2 on a dolly isn't much different than one. Gig bag with guitar, cords etc on my back. Spare guitar can rest on top of the dolly stack, maybe a bit tricky getting through the entrance but one trip in and one trip out with spares. So far, so good. I rarely need the spares but better safe than sorry. 

[Anderton]

8 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

As wonderful as new cutting edge tech can be, it can also become a huge problem when it becomes orphaned.

 

I think of it this way. Music is ephemeral. There's a lot of gear or sounds I used at a certain time, and they were part of the music of that time. The gear was as ephemeral as the music.

 

Of course, that's not going to be the case with an instrument like guitar, piano, sax, etc. But products made for fashion's sake will end up having the same fate as all products made for fashion's sake.

 

The main difference with gear is when the style comes back, you won't be able to find the parts to fix your gear. No worries, Native Instruments or Arturia or IK will virtualize it

[Notes_Norton]

20 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

True, I've had gear go south on stage more than once. 

A redundant system is a reliable system.

Definitely.

 

I have two Parker Maxxfly guitars, two tenor saxophones, more than two wind MIDI controllers (since they are now discontinued), more than two VL70m sound modules, amped PA speakers so if one goes out the show goes on and duplicate cables, and other gear, so the show will go on.

 

Being they we are both multi-instrumentalists in a duo, it's impractical to bring all the spares. I can cover sax, synth, or guitar parts 'good enough' with the WX5/VL70m wind synth combo, so I don't have to bring my spare guitar and sax or Mrs. Notes' spare guitar or Tactile MIDI controller.

 

I suppose if you are a studio musician, you can work with the newest, latest and greatest gear, but for playing live, reliability, redundancy, and longevity is paramount. We've been gigging in our duo http://www.s-cats.com full-time since 1985, and we haven't missed the gig or the downbeat.

 

 

21 hours ago, Threadslayer said:

Agreed. I had one for years and loved it. I'd still have it if I didn't have osteo-arthritis in the basal joint of my right thumb. Even with the neck strap, the weight of the WX7 was too painful to stand

 

The WX5 is lighter, but I still think it would be a problem. I'm sorry your joints keep you from your pleasure.

 

In the first 15 years of our duo, I brought a MIDI Keyboard instead of a guitar. The music our retirement market wanted was more of the Frank Sinatra/Glenn Miller era.

 

During that time, I was playing at a country club, in the lounge. I was using the WX/VL to play a harmon (wah) muted patch. I person from the dining room, who could hear but not see us, walked up to see who was sitting in on trumpet.

 

Another occasion, probably shortly before I started leaving the keyboard home and bringing the guitar to work, we were playing a private house party. We were out back, by the pool, and the wife attended the guests there. Her husband took care of inside the house, and he is an accomplished guitar player (gigs part-time). I was playing a guitar solo withe WX/VL and came out of the house to see who was playing the guitar.

 

Sadly, nobody is that invested in Physical Modeling anymore. People are buying tone more than expression, which I think should be reversed. Sure, a ROMPler will provide more realistic tone, but at the expense of the infinite nuances of the physical instrument that PM Synthesis can recreate.

 

I'm really sad that Yamaha gave up on wind controllers and physical modeling synthesis.

 

Notes ♫

 

 

 

 

[Philbo King]

I have a Godin LGX-SA with built-in piezo hex pickup plus two 1/4" outputs (one for humbuckers only, one for piezo audio plus humbuckers).  It's one of my favorite guitars.

I also have a GK2 pickup on a Strat.

I bought a Roland GR20 guitar synth pedal in '06 for gigging.  After drunk spilled beer on it, I picked up a GR33 on ebay thinking I'd never get the GR20 running again.  After cleaning the GR20 with lots of isopropyl alcohol & swabs, turned out I was able to find a fried PCB trace that I repaired using 36 gauge wire with a dot of superglue every 1/2" to hold it in place and it came back to life!

So now I have 2 guitar synths.  The GR20 is great for gigging because it's fast & easy to change through user patches.  The GR33 has much deeper programming capabities, a true rabbit hole.

These days I'm focused more on playing blues, so I don't often use either of them live.  Mostly for recording. I'm a much better guitarist than keyboardist, so I use them for recording piano, organ, sax and horn and some bass parts.

The tracking delay never bothered me too much.  When it does, I play the part an octave or 2 higher, and use the synth octave-down button to compensate.

I gave up using picks several years ago and just pick with fingers.  Not so much for the sake of the synths, but because I'd drop them and they would immediately teleport to another universe never to be seen again. So now I have callouses on both hands. 😎

[Anderton]

49 minutes ago, Philbo King said:

I have a Godin LGX-SA with built-in piezo hex pickup plus two 1/4" outputs (one for humbuckers only, one for piezo audio plus humbuckers).  It's one of my favorite guitars.

 

Do you use the hex pickup for recording? Like sending each string to its own channel?

[Philbo King]

9 hours ago, Anderton said:

 

Do you use the hex pickup for recording? Like sending each string to its own channel?

I used to when I first started recording it.  Eventually I found it simpler to just record the audio out.

 

The hex audio out is just a mix, though the synths can send 6 channel midi into the DAW.  (One channel per string).

[KuruPrionz]

I haven't used it in quite a while but I have a Fishman Triple Play pickup mounted on a Tele (bridge is brass so non-ferrous). It creates MIDI tracks wirelessly to a USB dongle connected to the computer. I like the system, I guess I just really like the sound of guitar strings more. 

[Anderton]

On 1/19/2024 at 7:11 PM, Philbo King said:

The hex audio out is just a mix, though the synths can send 6 channel midi into the DAW.  (One channel per string).

 

That's okay, but I want hex audio outputs. However, I might get lucky...I was talking to the Zivix folks at NAMM (who AFAIC make the best MIDI guitar at the moment, because it's a real guitar so you can layer guitar with the MIDI output) and they plan to add hex audio outs at some point. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later

[GovernorSilver]

New SubSix hex pickup coming from Submarine Pickups

 

https://www.submarinepickup.com/products/sub-six

 

 

[Philbo King]

I'm having trouble picturing a use case for having a separate audio output for each string.  There probably is one, somewhere...

 

It is certainly do-able with a hex pickup.  The Roland GK pickup 13 pin DIN connector has separate signals for each string, plus another for whatever other pickup(s) might be present.  It would just require a breakout box, perhaps with buffer amps.

 

https://www.ampworks.co.uk/experiments/gr55-gk-bobbib7/attachment/13pin/