Weighted, semi-weighted, or synth action keyboard?

[Outkaster]

Weighted for anything piano related.  Go heavy or go home. 

[Konnector]

I'd like to see the industry migrate all synth/semi-weighted keys to waterfall. No reason not to. I doubt they'd cost more to make. The advantage is obvious. I don't know of any advantage a diving board style key has over a waterfall key. 

 

Back to semi-weighted keybeds....I've had many over the years and still have several. They're all completely different, so it's really hard to say "this is what a semi-weighted keybed actually is".  Some feel considerably stiffer than others. (FA-07 is one example of a "stiff" one with the addition of way too much resistance towards the end of the black keys.) Others don't have that black key stiffness at all. Lighter springs might fix that, (hassle) but you'd think someone in the know would address that prior to manufacturing. 

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Konnector said:

Back to semi-weighted keybeds....I've had many over the years and still have several. They're all completely different, so it's really hard to say "this is what a semi-weighted keybed actually is".  Some feel considerably stiffer than others. 

 

Synth action: no weights or hammers

Semi weighted action: adds weights to the keys

"Fully" weighted action: adds hammer mechanisms to the keys.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

5 hours ago, Konnector said:

I'd like to see the industry migrate all synth/semi-weighted keys to waterfall. No reason not to. I doubt they'd cost more to make. The advantage is obvious. I don't know of any advantage a diving board style key has over a waterfall key. 

 

Totally agree. Im predominantly a piano player but id like my synth or my semi weighted boards to be waterfall even though id be playing piano on the semi weighted id also be playing organ on it.

 

And what is it with open keys where its like an abyss under the key i really hate those. Feels like the end of the key could just break off, looks flimsy like a toy.

[Sundown]

On 11/15/2023 at 2:16 PM, Konnector said:

I'd like to see the industry migrate all synth/semi-weighted keys to waterfall. No reason not to. I doubt they'd cost more to make. The advantage is obvious. I don't know of any advantage a diving board style key has over a waterfall key. 

 

 

I can’t argue with that … Visually it would be a bit of an adjustment, but functionally it would make a lot of sense.

 

Here’s a funny aside:

 

My parents own a Grinnell Brothers upright piano from the late 50’s or early 60’s (it was restored a decade ago). It’s what I learned on as a kid. The timbre and attack are not as shrill as your typical upright (it’s a more mellow tone), but what makes it really unique are the waterfall keys. They are fully-weighted piano keys, but the tips are definitely waterfalls as opposed to ledges or diving boards. The radius on the tip is probably an eighth inch, maybe a bit less.

 

I never knew anything different and I never considered it unusual, but I’ve never seen another piano with similar keys.

 

Todd

[Baldwin Funster]

Some players claim that the edges and lip of piano keys allow them to play "10ths" with one hand by catching the edge with the pinky and thumb. Why we organ and synth players have to suffer for these few pianists, idk. I've thought about breaking out the dremel and reshaping the keys on something with square fronts but that would be alot of work and I'm sure I would end up destroying the board.

[Jose EB5AGV]

4 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

Some players claim that the edges and lip of piano keys allow them to play "10ths" with one hand by catching the edge with the pinky and thumb. Why we organ and synth players have to suffer for these few pianists, idk. I've thought about breaking out the dremel and reshaping the keys on something with square fronts but that would be alot of work and I'm sure I would end up destroying the board.

 

As a sidenote, I guess that lip was a byproduct of the building process of wood piano keys in order to hide the joint between the top key cover and the front key cover, as that way the joint is not visible from top. I may be wrong, but seems like a good explanation to me 🤔

[AUSSIEKEYS]

57 minutes ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

 

As a sidenote, I guess that lip was a byproduct of the building process of wood piano keys in order to hide the joint between the top key cover and the front key cover, as that way the joint is not visible from top. I may be wrong, but seems like a good explanation to me 🤔

 

 

Agree was what i considered was the reason too. 

[Baldwin Funster]

I imagine after a hundred years of pounding on a pianos keys the tops would cave in if the front edge was a flush joint. The lip makes the key tops too long to fit inside the bottom portion of the hollow key.

Nobody uses the downward force on a B3 keybed that boogie woogie bangers do on that tic tac upright so waterfall keys don't need to be be overbuilt. Just guessing.

[HarrisP]

For those interested in controlling Clonewheel VSTs, the (Crumar) GSI DMC-122 is shipping again - I just picked one up from Alto Music in NY.  FYI, the new model does not support the embedded Gemini module, which is now made in desktop or rackmount versions only.  https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=42. To be clear, I backordered and it took about 2 weeks to arrive (YMMV).

[Sean M. H.]

Know this is somewhat of a zombie thread...but since I don't recall seeing it months ago, I'll add my $0.02...

 

I've played piano on synth action, and synth/organ on fully weighted hammer action.  Both are certainly doable; neither is ideal (of course)....but I say keep it simple and don't over-think this whole thing.  If you tend to play mostly sounds like piano and EP (where the original instrument has weighted keys), then get a weighted board...if you tend to mostly play things like, well, synth...then get synth action. If, like a lot of us, you have to do a little bit of everything, and you're expected to fill in the gaps for non-keyboard instruments that the band can't afford to hire, then split the difference and go semi-weighted.

 

I don't think there's really more to it than that.  The one caveat I'd add is that if you aspire to specialize in a certain genre or a specific style in the future, that could sway things.  For instance, if you want to practice classical technique but have no access to an acoustic, a weighted action gets you closest...or if you want to play Hammond jazz organ, a semi-weighted (preferably waterfall) probably gets you closest.

 

 

As for me, I use a stack (one weighted, one synth) when I'm doing a full show--multiple sets, or over, say, an hour total...for shorter gigs where it doesn't warrant taking both boards, I mix it up...and of course it depends on what songs I'm doing, whether or not I'm the only keys player, etc...only downside is that I have to make sure I have both boards setup/programmed (splits, layers, etc) to be able to handle the gigs standalone if need be--which can certainly be a PITA

[Stokely]

My intention is to pair a Fantom 6 (with a nice synth action) with my Nord stage 3 compact.   I considered a weighted board, but I really have settled on the Fantom for its features--and the weighted Fantom is not an option (size of a Buick and 62 pounds).

So something had to give, that will be weighted action.  For most of my gigging life, which has been off and on since the 80s, I've done fine with unweighted boards.  I even got used to playing piano on the extremely light Modx7    As mentioned, not ideal, but I don't play that much piano that isn't rock n roll style stuff anyway.  A few ballads but nothing close to intricate or requiring a ton of control. 

I refuse to bring 3 keyboards out so as I say something had to give!  I really like the NS3C action for organ and synth and even for piano I surprisingly do pretty well on it.

There is a  difference between playing piano on the premium synth actions (like Kurzweil pc361, or Motif) and the lighter cheaper ones like the Modx7.  I much prefer the bit of heft you get with the premium ones, not sure if those are considered "semi-weighted" or if they just are smoother and better.

[AnotherScott]

I've mentioned before that, long ago, I'd said that, for piano playing, even the worst "fully" weighted (hammer action) board was better than the best semi-weighted/non-hammer board, but I subsequently changed my mind about that. Even though that's still more likely the case than not in any given comparison, there are some non-hammer actions that are nicely playable, while some hammer actions can be very unsatisfying.

[Delaware Dave]

18 hours ago, HarrisP said:

For those interested in controlling Clonewheel VSTs, the (Crumar) GSI DMC-122 is shipping again - I just picked one up from Alto Music in NY.  FYI, the new model does not support the embedded Gemini module, which is now made in desktop or rackmount versions only.  https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=42. To be clear, I backordered and it took about 2 weeks to arrive (YMMV).

 

What does this post have to do with the topic?

[Konnector]

When Roland first started manufacturing synths way back when, some of their early synths had waterfall keys. (SH-1000, SH-5, etc) They had the right idea, but unfortunately that didn't last long. (Probably switched to cheaper diving board style keys to save some mfg $$.)