What is the next ‘big thing’ in keyboards?

[CyberGene]

19 minutes ago, ProfD said:

A great example of what I see is listening to what dudes like Nick Semrad and J3PO are doing with any KB they touch

I like what these guys do, but they remind me a bit of the infamous “The best A-ist among B-ists”, fill in A and B. They are both good keyboardists and good synthesists but I don’t think they are the best in either, or that they demonstrate any synergetic qualities from these two abilities. Don’t get me wrong, they are both great but when was the last time you poured yourself a glass of wine while listening to a CD of theirs? 😉

[ProfD]

55 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I like what these guys do, but they remind me a bit of the infamous “The best A-ist among B-ists”, fill in A and B. They are both good keyboardists and good synthesists but I don’t think they are the best in either, or that they demonstrate any synergetic qualities from these two abilities. Don’t get me wrong, they are both great but when was the last time you poured yourself a glass of wine while listening to a CD of theirs? 😉

Totally missing the point. It's not about their own music.  They showcase what can be done with sounds when thinking outside the box.😎

[Docbop]

I would say moving them to software, but with it would need to come with better controllers with all the controls like a workstation or stage keyboard.  So the software keyboard could automatically map all the controls on the controller.    So they would bring about  a basic standard controls on controllers.   Future would be a excellent controller and a computing device for the software simplifying the gear a keyboardist would need to lug around, but also a big world of multiple software keyboard available at the touch of a key. 

[Paul Woodward]

I wonder if we will ever see the spec to order keyboard rather than boxed stock trying to cover different tastes. Imagine if they were like you order Apple products for example:

 

1. Choose size (49, 61, 76, 88)

2. Spec keybed (synth, semi weighted etc.)

3. Add aftertouch option (none, channel, poly)

4. Screen ( internal only, add external screen)

5. Memory size

 

And so on. Would be like speccing a computer, adding engines/plug ins. Great opportunity to upsell your own software too. Imagine the Korg collection and their new Keystage controllers built as an all in one, but expandable, solution….

[ProfD]

15 minutes ago, Docbop said:

I would say moving them to software, but with it would need to come with better controllers with all the controls like a workstation or stage keyboard.  So the software keyboard could automatically map all the controls on the controller.    So they would bring about  a basic standard controls on controllers.   Future would be a excellent controller and a computing device for the software simplifying the gear a keyboardist would need to lug around, but also a big world of multiple software keyboard available at the touch of a key. 

As long as there is a market for bloated hardware KBs, the big 3 manufacturers will be slow to offer software versions of their instruments.  

 

Better KB MIDI controllers with more knobs and sliders and auto-mapping templates for every type of software could be produced tomorrow.  Just a matter of an effort between providers to share code.😎

[Docbop]

1 minute ago, ProfD said:

As long as there is a market for bloated hardware KBs, the big 3 manufacturers will be slow to offer software versions of their instruments.  

I think the big manufactures will see less cost and risk with software versus hardware.   Also time to get to market would be cheaper and less issues with supply chain like the pandemic brought about.  So I think it would be attractive.     That would also create a whole new market for controllers that they could get into. 

[AROIOS]

"What is the next ‘big thing’ in keyboards?"

A.I. churning out written, arranged, mixed, mastered tunes.

After that, brain modems and life-like V.R. feeding our brain "experiences" of live performance and groupies.

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, Docbop said:

I think the big manufactures will see less cost and risk with software versus hardware.   Also time to get to market would be cheaper and less issues with supply chain like the pandemic brought about.  So I think it would be attractive.     That would also create a whole new market for controllers that they could get into. 

The big 3 manufacturers could have jumped into the software game a long time ago.

 

As evidenced by this forum, there is no shortage of desire for hardware KBs.  Factor in the # of folks outside this forum who have similar needs. 

 

Walk into any music store and count the number of hardware products in the KB department.  All types of KBs, grooveboxes, modules and controllers. 

 

Of the big 3 manufacturers, Roland seems to have every base covered in hardware and software.  😎

[GovernorSilver]

Korg's actually been in the software game for a long time: Korg Legacy Collection,  Korg Collection, Korg Collection 4, Opsix Native, etc.  They might have also been the first of the Japanese Big 3 to publish IOS synth apps:  iMS-20, iPolySix, Gadget, etc.  According to VSE, Legacy Collection was released in 2004 - almost 20 years ago.

 

Yet they keep on manufacturing hardware products, which does suggest the revenue from these products is high enough to justify continued manufacture.

[Malcs Myth]

13 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

So, where is (or should) keyboard tech heading and what would make a truly groundbreaking new purchase?

 

I always thought it would be the human voice, but now I think it will be AI unfortunately, whether we want it or not. Not just AI automation of musical phrases (though that might be good for teaching), but AI sound generation.

 

First there needs to be ground rules about AI - though I dont know how they would be enforceable. At the very least there should be labelling - it would be much better if all the AI music and AI generated imagery was labelled as such, so at the very least, we could choose to filter it out if we so desired.

 

But despite being a sound designer very concerned at AI developments, I dont think AI will be able to work out what sounds are used in a given song, not for a short while at least. With AI imaging, it learns from existing data, which crucially has been named. Billions of photos, with every variation, all tagged. But there is no database of sounds used in songs - sounds on their own, yes - but for most synth sounds its a huge murky mess. So AI could have a stab at making a “Fantasia sound” but it doesnt know the details of sounds used in recordings. E.g.:

 

The Take On Me famous lead sound.  It’s a Juno 60 right? Right, but not completely!! It’s a Juno 60, but also layered with a PPG doing a metallic percussive sound (and we dont even know if it was a PPG, this is using HI - human intelligence!). AI doesnt know this, because its machine learning - from hundreds of sources - told it the sound is a Juno 60 full stop.

 

So if the AI is reading this…  BWAAAAARRRRRP!!!

[ProfD]

9 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

Korg's actually been in the software game for years:  Korg Legacy Collection,  Korg Collection, Korg Collection 4, Opsix Native, etc.  They might have also been the first of the Japanese Big 3 to publish IOS synth apps:  iMS-20, iPolySix, Gadget, etc.

Thanks Gov.  I knew Korg was ahead of the others on the software front.  Didn't articulate it in my last post. 😎

[Paul Woodward]

I work in 3D design and use CAD software. The latest version of Solidedge (a 3D modelling program) uses AI to anticipate what you want to do next when modelling. It doesn’t do it, it just provides the next function as if it were reading your mind. This simply aids productivity. Now that is the sort of AI I would like to see in music. Suggesting a complimentary tone, rhythm, or even a chord progression or riff to compliment your own and ease writers block.

[Paul Woodward]

7 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Thanks Gov.  I knew Korg was ahead of the others on the software front.  Didn't articulate it in my last post. 😎

I had the first iPad at launch, pretty sure Korg were the first to provide apps based on existing hardware (as opposed to editors like Roland launched). iMS-20 I believe. Consistently released iOS apps as well as two ‘apps’ for the Nintendo DS and the switch. That’s quite a diverse range and now even in VR. Fair to say they are the most prolific of the big 3 in terms of IOS apps.

[GovernorSilver]

Assistive software to encourage songwriters, producers, etc to write songs with bridges again could be a good thing.  😎

[ElmerJFudd]

Midi 2.0 on everything. Affordable channel aftertouch.  High priced poly aftertouch. 

 

Greater detail of acoustic instruments with larger sample libraries due to increasing affordability of storage. Increasing realism of modeling.  
 

[Baldwin Funster]

Next big thing. A piano that plays popular songs ALL BY ITSELF!!

 

I believe there is some kind of paper roll with little hole punched out that gets read by a magic genie inside the piano.

It's gonna be a big seller that thing is.

 

[David Emm]

9 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Every DAW nowadays comes with a complete suite of plugins. If you don’t need them, don’t use them 😉 But Logic Pro’s set of instruments and FX is often mentioned as the best bang for buck.

 

The closest I found to a usage stats poll is this:

https://www.production-expert.com/production-expert-1/2023-daw-user-survey-the-results
 

Logic Pro is the second most popular DAW after Pro Tools (well, the blog that conducted the poll used to be a Pro Tools blog, so that may have influenced the results but they mentioned it). Hardly seems like Logic Pro is “falling further” except if you mean it used to be number one but got overthrown by Pro Tools. 

 

I became a Logic adherent, partly because I began with tape decks. Ableton is the well-proven superior choice for live work, especially where it feeds "the kids" who began with sound clips over cassettes. Pro Tools was the first to the table, but now we have a range between feature films, indies and YouTubers. Logic's smooth system integration has always been a welcome relief in light of my hated first "DAW Who Shall Not Be Named."

 

Being very linear (aside from its recent loop enhancement), Logic appeals to my earlier, tape-loving self. I'd argue that it has the best instrument/effects bundle, but you will always end up adding 3rd-party pieces. No one has it all. That's not a drawback; its simply a call to refine your studio as needed. I'll gladly take stability over wild innovation that either fizzles out or fails outright.    

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, GovernorSilver said:

Assistive software to encourage songwriters, producers, etc to write songs with bridges again could be a good thing.  😎

 

It wouldn't give them any chords or anything, it'd just be like this guy and he'd pop up in your DAW: 

[David Emm]

So much of the world of keyboards feels like serious sci-fi to begin with, that's hard to say.

 

We keep seeing similar designs because THAT'S HOW SYNTHS ARE BUILT. Even the wildest innovations still come back to basically one approach: oscillators (sound source), filtering (even if built, additively, for ex.) and envelopes, i.e. Pitch, Tone & Time. Our ears work that way, so synths do as well. I don't need 12 variations on a Prophet-5, but I need every synth to do part of what it does. That's how you get dem purdy sounds to come out.

 

Every few years, we get a nice variation like the Hydrasynth, but the basics will never waver much. If you want strings, you use samples or you tweak the heck out of some sawtooth waves. You can labor your arse off creating some additively, but it'll always need an ADSR-type component, re: your ears.  

 

I don't think there's a "Next Big Thing" ahead; it will be more about refinement, as with the Osmose. Bob Moog once (loosely) said that the Next Big Thing would be about controllers. Wise man, eh? Even back then, he Got It. In a world of near-perfect pianos, strings and 8-layer synth sounds, the winning entry will be the one that allows you to most readily express your ideas. Can you say "MPE?" Its still quite new as a mainstreamed feature, but its the first one in a while to truly bend the paradigm. I think that will make it the next *bigger* thing. We'll just have to see if virtuosos appear to guide the rest.  

[RABid]

I think poly-aftertouch will be the next big thing. Yes, I know it has been out for years and years, but the ball is finally starting to roll. Really hoping it shows up in the next Fantom.

[CHarrell]

1 minute ago, David Emm said:

So much of the world of keyboards feels like serious sci-fi to begin with, that's hard to say.

 

We keep seeing similar designs because THAT'S HOW SYNTHS ARE BUILT. Even the wildest innovations still come back to basically one approach: oscillators (sound source), filtering (even if built, additively, for ex.) and envelopes, i.e. Pitch, Tone & Time. Our ears work that way, so synths do as well. I don't need 12 variations on a Prophet-5, but I need every synth to do part of what it does. That's how you get dem purdy sounds to come out.

 

Every few years, we get a nice variation like the Hydrasynth, but the basics will never waver much. If you want strings, you use samples or you tweak the heck out of some sawtooth waves. You can labor your arse off creating some additively, but it'll always need an ADSR-type component, re: your ears.  

 

I don't think there's a "Next Big Thing" ahead; it will be more about refinement, as with the Osmose. Bob Moog once (loosely) said that the Next Big Thing would be about controllers. Wise man, eh? Even back then, he Got It. In a world of near-perfect pianos, strings and 8-layer synth sounds, the winning entry will be the one that allows you to most readily express your ideas. Can you say "MPE?" Its still quite new as a mainstreamed feature, but its the first one in a while to truly bend the paradigm. I think that will make it the next *bigger* thing. We'll just have to see if virtuosos appear to guide the rest.  

 

Agreed. Last year, I was hired to write a "sonic logo" and the note I got from the producers after sending in my draft was that they wanted a "contemporary" sound. That wasn't a euphemism for a currently popular genre or anything, they wanted the main melodic voice of the logo itself to be "contemporary" (originally it was French horn, trumpet, and trombone, which they thought sounded too traditional). 

 

So I agonized and agonized over what a "contemporary" sound is. Was it FM? Was it some waveshaping thing? What was the cutting edge in synthesis? After sending draft after draft after draft, I settled on the idea that it's not so much the sound that makes something contemporary, it's the context. Just like how the traditional orchestral instruments have been in place for centuries now but we're still able to imagine, hear, and recognize contemporary classical music versus Schubert, the levels of expression that are being made available to us generation after generation will break open many cavern walls to what could even be considered very traditional or simple sounds, and allow us to go even deeper and recontextualize these sonorities in ways that either weren't physically possible or were very difficult to achieve in real-time without it consuming all of your effort. 

[GovernorSilver]

7 minutes ago, RABid said:

I think poly-aftertouch will be the next big thing. Yes, I know it has been out for years and years, but the ball is finally starting to roll. Really hoping it shows up in the next Fantom.

 

And it appears only in the 88 key model

[David Emm]

1 minute ago, CHarrell said:

 

Agreed. Last year, I was hired to write a "sonic logo" and the note I got from the producers after sending in my draft was that they wanted a "contemporary" sound. That wasn't a euphemism for a currently popular genre or anything, they wanted the main melodic voice of the logo itself to be "contemporary" (originally it was French horn, trumpet, and trombone, which they thought sounded too traditional).

So I agonized and agonized over what a "contemporary" sound is. Was it FM? Was it some waveshaping thing? What was the cutting edge in synthesis?

 

So... what finally satisfied the suits?

[GovernorSilver]

29 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

It wouldn't give them any chords or anything, it'd just be like this guy and he'd pop up in your DAW: 

 

Being AI, it would of course let you select between various personalities: Obnoxious New York Guy (above example), Nagging Nanny, Pretentious Butler, Court Fool, etc.

[CHarrell]

2 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

Being AI, it would of course let you select between various personalities: Obnoxious New York Guy (above example), Nagging Nanny, Pretentious Butler, Court Fool, etc.

 

With premium add-ons for Snoop Dogg and George Takei!

[CHarrell]

15 minutes ago, David Emm said:

 

So... what finally satisfied the suits?

 

Honestly I drowned an Arp Odyssey patch with effects and detuning, I have no idea if it sounds modern at all. 😅 But they still use it almost two years later!

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SCK_vWmLdyI9TSIrGuTBMgIxH-rkKmnS/view?usp=drive_link

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

28 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

With premium add-ons for Snoop Dogg and George Takei!

 

And for extra premium price Rick Beato!

 

For the ultimate experience of being reminded every day that your songwriting sucks compared to the masters of the past.

[CEB]

I’m hoping for anti-gravity repulsor lifts to replace keyboard stands.  

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, CHarrell said:

 

With premium add-ons for Snoop Dogg and George Takei!

 

I started watching the cable TV show BMF (Black Mafia Family) typical crime show and there are church scenes now and then and Snoop Dogg is the paster of the church.   I was grinning so much Snoop in his cool way of talking giving the sermon.   Snoop a regular in the cast as Pastor Swift. 

[ProfD]

Viscount had the right idea in offering modules for the Legend 70s and Legend Live Soul. 

 

Being able to add your sound library to a KB would be nice. IMO, it's better than having 1,964 useless presets. 🤣😎