Rumors: Yamaha Montage successor

[AnotherScott]

4 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

My big question at this point is whether the polyphony numbers are 128-note stereo like the previous Montage or 128-note mono like the older Motif series. 

No step backwards.

 

maximum polyphony:

AWM2 (Preset waveforms): 128 (both stereo and mono waveforms)
AWM2 (User or Library waveforms): 128 (both stereo and mono waveforms)

FM-X: 128
AN-X: 16

[Mighty Motif Max]

2 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

No step backwards.

 

maximum polyphony:

AWM2 (Preset waveforms): 128 (both stereo and mono waveforms)
AWM2 (User or Library waveforms): 128 (both stereo and mono waveforms)

FM-X: 128
AN-X: 16

Excellent!

 

Nice to see they brought a lot of the pianos over from the YC/CP series - looking through the data list, I see the following pianos represented:

 

- CFX

- Bosendorfer Imperial

- S700

- C7

- Nashville C3

- Hamburg Grand

- Felt Piano

- U1 Upright

- Upright from the original Montage (not sure what model that actually is)

- CFIIIS

- S6

 

So the main ones that are missing seem to be the SU7 Upright and the Live CF3 (aka Power Grand).

[UnderGroundGr]

If the M6 and M7 model had polyphonic aftertouch, i would buy one...

[ElmerJFudd]

12 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 go to 25:15 in the video in the post above at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/186480-rumors-yamaha-montage-successor/page/8/#comment-2970183

 

VST/AU of the Montage M that mirrors the hardware in software - free to hardware Montage M owners.  Edit one with the other, share patches between them. This is a big deal. I’m assuming there will be a purchase option for those that don’t own the hardware - who want Montage M on a laptop in MainStage (or whatever) and a controller? 

[UnderGroundGr]

I will buy the software synth Montage M and i will pair it with a new controller with poly aftertouch. I hope that the next Arturia will have this feature...

[Mighty Motif Max]

2 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

VST/AU of the Montage M that mirrors the hardware in software - free to hardware Montage M owners.  Edit one with the other, share patches between them. This is a big deal. I’m assuming there will be a purchase option for those that don’t own the hardware - who want Montage M on a laptop in MainStage (or whatever) and a controller? 

This actually brings up a fascinating possibility - combine the Montage M E.S.P. plugin with the new Korg Keystage controllers with their built-in audio interface and poly after touch. Gets you reasonably close to a Montage M6/7 minus the faders and some of the hands-on control.

[zephonic]

28 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

VST/AU of the Montage M that mirrors the hardware in software - free to hardware Montage M owners.  Edit one with the other, share patches between them. This is a big deal. I’m assuming there will be a purchase option for those that don’t own the hardware - who want Montage M on a laptop in MainStage (or whatever) and a controller? 

 

Blake Angelos does not mention separate availability of the plugin, he says it’s coming in 2024 and is free for all Montage M owners.

If they make it available as a separate purchase, I’m buying that the minute it drops. But I doubt they’ll do that...

 

edit:

 

from the product page:

 

Quote

EXPANDED SOFTSYNTH PLUGIN (E.S.P.) (COMING EARLY 2024)

A game-changer for musicians, the Expanded Softsynth Plugin (E.S.P.) replicates the MONTAGE M in your favorite Digital Workstation (DAW). Free for all registered MONTAGE M owners, E.S.P. allows you to create, edit and mix MONTAGE M Performances anywhere you happen to be – without the hardware – offering an unprecedented level of stage and studio integration. We are planning on releasing E.S.P. in early 2024. The first version will have all the MONTAGE M sound while being limited to basic editing. The full version will be available in Summer 2024.

 

 

[CyberGene]

The AN-X demos are OK-ish, nothing spectacular. Honestly, the Fantom-0 series have better sounding synths. And I expected to hear a CS80 poly AT demo 😀

[Bobadohshe]

Quote

VCM Rotary effect and “pull out” drawbar behavior on Organ Performances.

 

It's nice to see SOME consideration of organ functionality. Even with 8 'drawbars', I can dig this pull out capability. I wonder what they mean by VCM rotary effect and how much better it is than what they have now.

[Bobadohshe]

Bummed about the new button layout on the right. The grid system where the 16 on the right pick the page and the 16 on the left pick the patch has become an indispensable part of my Top 40 life performance. I'm probably the only one in the world for whom this is a real drag.

[Jose EB5AGV]

Have you noticed the subtle difference on how the Super Knob flashes?. It seems a rotating pattern instead of the pumping effect. I guess this it is less distracting 

[Mighty Motif Max]

46 minutes ago, Bobadohshe said:

 

It's nice to see SOME consideration of organ functionality. Even with 8 'drawbars', I can dig this pull out capability. I wonder what they mean by VCM rotary effect and how much better it is than what they have now.

Listen to the Sweetwater demo video - it's the improved rotary effect from the YC 1.2 update.

[Jose EB5AGV]

There are already two updates to the firmware 😁

 

MONTAGE M OS Updater V1.1

 

Now we can begin to speculate what V2.0 would add. A fourth engine?😆

[CyberGene]

Increasing the number of AWM elements per part, or in other words having a single instrument (e.g. a nice multisample piano) in a single part is a huge improvement. It was one of my biggest complaints about the MODX6. For instance, the best CFX grand takes 4 parts. Try creating a split with another instrument on the fly…

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

3 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

VST/AU of the Montage M that mirrors the hardware in software - free to hardware Montage M owners.  Edit one with the other, share patches between them. This is a big deal. I’m assuming there will be a purchase option for those that don’t own the hardware - who want Montage M on a laptop in MainStage (or whatever) and a controller? 

Is it software like and actual plugin with its own audio engine ....? Or is it a librarian and programmer that connects to the keyboard and triggers it etc ...

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

And I also wonder do you still get access to the software if you sell the keyboard... Or once you own one, and sell, do you lose access...? 

 

 

[Dockeys]

4 hours ago, zephonic said:

 

Blake Angelos does not mention separate availability of the plugin, he says it’s coming in 2024 and is free for all Montage M owners.

If they make it available as a separate purchase, I’m buying that the minute it drops. But I doubt they’ll do that...

 

edit:

 

from the product page:

 

 

 

He does mention that you can step away from the hardware connection and edit in your daw and then reconnect. This doesn’t really confirm if you can use the software version on a non montage controller. I hope you can, I’ve been wondering for years why they didn’t make a vst of the motif/montage library. I guess it would affect sales of the hardware units. Might be a nice way to augment my CP73 or a controller of your choice. 

[CyberGene]

If I can have all the sounds of a Montage/MODX in a VST without the crappy and unresponsive touch screen, then that would be ideal. So, I doubt Yamaha would offer it as a standalone product.

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

Is it software like and actual plugin with its own audio engine ....? Or is it a librarian and programmer that connects to the keyboard and triggers it etc ...

Based on how Blake described it, it sounds like it will make sound.   But, we’ll watch to see what is clarified - perhaps in the tech talk. 

[Jose EB5AGV]

Just need to go to the source! 😁. This is from the news release on YAMAHA.com

5. Bundled license of Softsynth features MONTAGE M Synthesis Engine

MONTAGE M series keyboards come with a download code for the Expanded Softsynth Plugin (E.S.P.) for MONTAGE M, which is a software synthesizer (VST3, AU) that can replicate all MONTAGE M series sounds, offering more powerful stage and studio integration.

We are planning on releasing E.S.P. in early 2024. The first version will have MONTAGE M sound, while being limited to basic editing. The full version is planned for release in summer 2024.

 

That means it has sounds, for sure!

 

This is the link for the news release:

 

Yamaha Music Synthesizer MONTAGE M Series

 

[Theo Verelst]

From what I heard (on my best monitoring system, using the best quality settings in this case on chrome/firefox on recent windows 11) this is a tuner, meaning it can (and it's unfortunately once again needed to get out of mediocre quality) be adjusted honoring certain Yamaha/studio processing/emulation settings to achieve at high grade sound. Together with polyphonic AT and 192kHz digital IO and as it seems a lot of power, that's a cool thing.

 

TV.

[Sunlight2]

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Increasing the number of AWM elements per part, or in other words having a single instrument (e.g. a nice multisample piano) in a single part is a huge improvement. It was one of my biggest complaints about the MODX6. For instance, the best CFX grand takes 4 parts. Try creating a split with another instrument on the fly…

This. It was true of so many of the patches, they were 'built' from fairly meagre individual parts. It made creating patches quite a chore.

[RABid]

They did address my biggest complaint of the previous Montage and primary reason I sold mine after a month. No more breaking up patches across multiple MIDI channels. The new engine can now handle all the little parts that make a piano realistic within a single patch. This also means that you can connect a controller to the new Montage and play different parts on the main keyboard and the controller. Something I could not tell from the Sweetwater demo is if they toned down the amount of effects in the patches. On the original Montage I did not consider any of the patches playable without dialing back the excessive reverb.

 

I wonder how Roland will respond. Would like to see a new Fantom 7 with poly-aftertouch. 

[AnotherScott]

 

9 hours ago, zephonic said:

Blake Angelos does not mention separate availability of the plugin, he says it’s coming in 2024 and is free for all Montage M owners.

If they make it available as a separate purchase, I’m buying that the minute it drops. But I doubt they’ll do that...

 

According to that post from the yamahamusicians forum that was referenced earlier, it will also be available standalone (there was a zenology analogy, and a question of whether it would be a one-time purchase or a subscription)... but there has been no confirmation from Yamaha, and even though that guy ended up having a bunch of stuff about this right, that doesn't guarantee that he didn't get this wrong. Still, based on the track record on the rest, I think there's a pretty good chance he was right, which is encouraging. That doesn't mean it will be cheap, though. 😉 

 

6 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Increasing the number of AWM elements per part, or in other words having a single instrument (e.g. a nice multisample piano) in a single part is a huge improvement. It was one of my biggest complaints about the MODX6. For instance, the best CFX grand takes 4 parts. Try creating a split with another instrument on the fly…

 

Yes, dealing with splits/layers using multi-part single instruments is something I worked around by simply never doing it. 😉

 

[ElmerJFudd]

In 2015 when Yamaha had teased the reface line I had speculated that with processing power experiencing a significant jump from the days of PLG cards or the EX5 that Yamaha would be returning to a multi engine flagship - hopefully offering FM, AN, VL and AWM engines.  Of course that turned out to be several Roland boutique-like instruments rather than the “Motif” successor.  
 

I’m pleasantly surprised to see an FM, AN, AWM synth from Yamaha with a big step into a macOS/Win plugin as well (likely built by Steinberg).   I would expect it probably will require an elicensing scheme.  
 

I can already see the benefit of having a Montage setlist all worked out and being able to take the Montage with or leave it home. For gigs where you don’t bring it, grab the laptop and use what controller is available. 
 

For those who are Halion 7 users  the Montage Plug-in of course is less exciting. 
https://www.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/

 

“35 GB content, 3,700 presets and 15 instruments

FM, spectral, wavetable, virtual analog and granular synthesis.  70 fx, big modulation matrix.” - $349.99. 

[Docbop]

Anderton's and Polite Mike already on top of it. 

 

 

[CyberGene]

I’m wondering if the 128 elements per part will also allow them to provide a tonewheel emulation. As far as I know the one they use on the reface and CK is AWM based and probably just mixes different layers. With enough elements and a UI overlay it would still be better than relying on presets. Otherwise it would be pretty odd for such a recent and expensive workstation to omit any TW emulation, let alone a proper one (such as on the YC). 

[ElmerJFudd]

20 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I’m wondering if the 128 elements per part will also allow them to provide a tonewheel emulation. As far as I know the one they use on the reface and CK is AWM based and probably just mixes different layers. With enough elements and a UI overlay it would still be better than relying on presets. Otherwise it would be pretty odd for such a recent and expensive workstation to omit any TW emulation, let alone a proper one (such as on the YC). 

From the specs it would appear the organs are not modeled.  AWM2 engine.  

[CyberGene]

4 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

From the specs it would appear the organs are not modeled.  AWM2 engine.  

I’m not much into organs, so I’ll leave it to more knowledgeable people but my understanding is the AWM organs such as in the reface and CK are not exactly “modeled” (depending on what one means by modeled) but rather more clever sample-based programming where the various drawbar levels and param values (vibrato/chorus, etc) can all be implemented as sample mix levels + FX. Might be wrong though. 

[zephonic]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

For those who are Halion 7 users  the Montage Plug-in of course is less exciting. 
https://www.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/

 

“35 GB content, 3,700 presets and 15 instruments

FM, spectral, wavetable, virtual analog and granular synthesis.  70 fx, big modulation matrix.” - $349.99. 

 

I have had Halion since v4 (HalionSonic since v1), as it was touted as having been developed with help from the Motif sound team. It's good and I use quite a bit, but it doesn't sound like a Motif or a Montage to me.

 

If Montage VST becomes available as a standalone purchase, I'll happily pay $400 for it.