Just when I thought I’d seen it all - obnoxious bar manager

[CowboyNQ]

Just got home from the maiden show of our Van Halen tribute.  A very bizarre thing happened that I feel I need to vent about here for therapeutic reasons.

 

We all know there are two kinds of bar staff at venues.  Those who work as a team with the entertainment, and those who regard us as pond slime.  This chap was most certainly in the latter category.

 

Our bassist, who also happens to be my brother, thought it would be cool to bring a bottle of Jack Daniel’s on stage as a prop.  The original contents had been replaced with tea, ain’t no way we’re swigging Jack Daniel’s neat on stage and still playing the correct notes.

 

For a while, we had a great deal of fun drinking from the bottle during the show.  The audience was enjoying our shenanigans but our friend the bar manager (let’s call him FW for the sake of brevity) was not.  He accosted our lead singer DURING THE SHOW (while a guitar solo was in progress) to lecture him about how we were not allowed to bring our own alcohol on stage.  Our singer tried to explain the drink was non-alcoholic but FW was having none of it.  I should add his tone was aggressive, disrespectful and accusatory.

 

Singer:  “It’s tea, not Jack Daniel’s”.

FW: “I don’t believe you”.

Singer: “I don’t know what to tell you”.

FW: “You need to hand the bottle over immediately, so I can taste the drink”.

 

Which we did.  Now FW delays the return of our singer to the stage while he futzes around trying to find a glass to pour the bottle into so he can taste it.  Who knew it was so hard to find a glass in a bar?

 

We get the bottle back (with its value as a prop ruined) without so much as an apology. I wonder how FW would have felt if we’d interrupted HIS work in full view of his customers because we thought he was breaching his compliance responsibilities?

 

The lesson learned - next time we’ll inform bar staff in advance the contents of our bottle.  Perhaps we can host a tea party.

[Baldwin Funster]

He coulda just poured some on a napkin to smell it.

 

[o0Ampy0o]

Sounds like nothing was handled appropriately. What regular store allows customers to bring products they sell into the store? A band performance with a visual prop which looks like something they sell but isn’t should be run by the owner or a manager so they are in on the truth ahead of time and have a chance to approve it. Pretending to get drunk flaunting a bottle of booze on stage is a sketchy idea anyway. At the least it is cause for concern over your ability to do what you were brought in to do, like drinking on the job.

[Docbop]

Been in a few bands getting in trouble with bar managers,  director of a musical,  stage manager of a theater.    So yes alerting pointy headed manager types up front can avoid head butting later.  

 

The best was I was in a pit band for a musical about marathon dances back in the 1920's so the pit band was actually on stage as part of the set.   The director made the mistake of telling us we could drink on stage since musicians for those marathons played long hours and would drink.    So we'd bring things to drink and share on stage.    One night I hit the liquor store on way to gig and they have the big half-gallon or gallon bottle of Jim Beam in a really cool cut glass bottle that to me looked very '20's.   So I buy it and bring it to the gig and we all are passing the bottle around and taking swigs.   We definitely were feeling no pain and having fun throw stuff into the music.  To point all the actors on stage dancing were getting into it and grinning.    Well show finishes and the MD the director wants us to stay for "Notes".  The director comes over all ticked and yelling at us, which we were too drunk to give a dam.   So we show up for next night and MD calmly says cut back on the drinking and we respect him and kept the drinking down the rest of the run of the show, but everyone but the director had a great time that night including the actors.   <grin>

[El Lobo]

I'm sorry CowboyNQ but I'm with the bar manager on this one. If it really was whiskey in the bottle, what you did was illegal. If it's a stage prop with tea in it, it's still a problem because you're leading your audience to believe that you're drinking real whiskey from the bottle (that you brought in). You're doing something to make the audience think that you're doing something illegal (though you aren't). In decades of gigging bars, I've seen everything. I saw a bar owner go ballistic when he discovered that the drummer in the band I was in was drinking something he brought in himself. The bar owner said he could lose his license. That band would never play there again. 

 

I would have told you to stop right away - it doesn't matter what's actually in the bottle - you have to stop. If you don't stop, you're outta here.

[bill5]

I agree. Granted, he could have been less of a douche about how he addressed it, but you set yourself up for trouble by not telling him about it/showing it to him up front. And as stated, the crowd didn't know, so it's promoting a "hey getting hammered in public is so cool!" thing, whether you meant to or not. 

  

1 hour ago, Baldwin Funster said:

He coulda just poured some on a napkin to smell it.

 

It might have still had a residual JD smell about it.

 

I've dealt with an ahole bar manager a time or two, but it had nothing to do with gigging, so probably best to pass on the story.  

[Lindaru]

In looking at it in a different perspective, less of just a music performance but a stage performance overall, I have been in plays where we used "fake" alcohol as part of the script.  I doubt the audience thought we were using real alcohol but just presenting a part of the story.

I do agree that it should be planned in advance (just like the directors and stage managers of theater know in advance that it is not real alcohol) and let them know it was just part of the musical script so to speak, although very ad lib.

Just my two and a half cents (adjusted for inflation).
 

[Artomas]

Maybe I've known more low level hippy jam band types than normal rock and pop tribute bands... but the bar manager actually drank from a container that a band member said was "homemade tea"?! And the worst they were worried about was whiskey?!! The fact that it actually was just normal Lipton... they really should count their blessings, and not risk doing that again. Especially if they suspect they can't trust you!🤣

[jazzpiano88]

28 minutes ago, Artomas said:

... but the bar manager actually drank from a container that a band member said was "homemade tea"?! And the worst they were worried about was whiskey?!! The fact that it actually was just normal Lipton... they really should count their blessings, and not risk doing that again. Especially if they suspect they can't trust you!🤣

 

That's the part that I find the most astonishing - that he wanted to do a taste test after the band had been swigging and backwashing some unknown liquid.  The bar manager has about as much sense as a tree stump.

 

Diseases transferred via saliva:

• Epstein-Barr virus (mononucleosis, or mono).
• Type 1 herpes (cold sores).
• Strep bacteria.
• Hepatitis B and hepatitis C.
• Covid
• Rhinovirus (colds).
• Flu virus.
• Cytomegalovirus

 

[Docbop]

8 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

That's the part that I find the most astonishing - that he wanted to do a taste test after the band had been swigging and backwashing some unknown liquid.  The bar manager has about as much sense as a tree stump.

 

Diseases transferred via saliva:

• Epstein-Barr virus (mononucleosis, or mono).
• Type 1 herpes (cold sores).
• Strep bacteria.
• Hepatitis B and hepatitis C.
• Covid
• Rhinovirus (colds).
• Flu virus.
• Cytomegalovirus

 

See our drinking real alcohol on stage helped kill all those nasty germs.   <grin>   

[Baldwin Funster]

I haven't done a gig in the last 5 years where I didn't drink outside alchohol onstage. But I do it in secret. One of my bands still don't know my water bottle isn't water.

And no I don't get drunk per se. I just don't want to be the only sober person in a room full of drinking knuckleheads.

As for the Jack Daniels  bottle in the OP, It would have been funnier if it had been obviously empty. Then when the manager came up you could have turned it bottom up.

[Delaware Dave]

13 minutes ago, Baldwin Funster said:

I haven't done a gig in the last 5 years where I didn't drink outside alchohol onstage. But I do it in secret. One of my bands still don't know my water bottle isn't water.

And no I don't get drunk per se. I just don't want to be the only sober person in a room full of drinking knuckleheads.

As for the Jack Daniels  bottle in the OP, It would have been funnier if it had been obviously empty. Then when the manager came up you could have turned it bottom up.

 

Let me guess, you use to be a guitar player ......  I knew it !!!

[Baldwin Funster]

13 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

 

Let me guess, you use to be a guitar player ......  I knew it !!!

Still am. I tried to stop but they keep pulling me back in.

[CowboyNQ]

4 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:

Sounds like nothing was handled appropriately. What regular store allows customers to bring products they sell into the store? A band performance with a visual prop which looks like something they sell but isn’t should be run by the owner or a manager so they are in on the truth ahead of time and have a chance to approve it. Pretending to get drunk flaunting a bottle of booze on stage is a sketchy idea anyway. At the least it is cause for concern over your ability to do what you were brought in to do, like drinking on the job.

Thanks Ampy, I agree we should have cleared the prop ahead of time.  Lesson learned as I said in my last paragraph.

 

in terns of the appropriateness of the prop artistically these things are subjective, but the band is a VH tribute. 
 

No one was drinking on the job, and noone was pretending to get drunk.  
 

I think if we were performing West Side Story, we might bring a fake firearm on stage.

[CowboyNQ]

4 hours ago, El Lobo said:

I'm sorry CowboyNQ but I'm with the bar manager on this one. If it really was whiskey in the bottle, what you did was illegal. If it's a stage prop with tea in it, it's still a problem because you're leading your audience to believe that you're drinking real whiskey from the bottle (that you brought in). You're doing something to make the audience think that you're doing something illegal (though you aren't). In decades of gigging bars, I've seen everything. I saw a bar owner go ballistic when he discovered that the drummer in the band I was in was drinking something he brought in himself. The bar owner said he could lose his license. That band would never play there again. 

 

I would have told you to stop right away - it doesn't matter what's actually in the bottle - you have to stop. If you don't stop, you're outta here.

Thanks El Lobo and no need to be sorry.  I’m enjoying talking about this as it’s making me feel better.  I agree that we could have been a lot smarter.  I think we should have cleared the prop ahead of time.

 

I also agree it is illegal to bring one’s own alcohol in.

 

I would have preferred the bar manager to politely enquire about the contents of the bottle, perhaps giving us the benefit of the doubt at the outset.  I would have liked this conversation and any testing of the evidence to have occurred pre-show.  I would have liked the manager to not engage our lead singer in this interaction while he was performing.  I would have preferred the bar manager’s behaviour and demeanour during this contretemps to have matched ours.
 

The band is full of well-known (in our town) professional musicians who play the venue regularly.  We are not the Blues Brothers turning up to steal The Good Ole Boys Gig.

 

 

[jazzpiano88]

12 minutes ago, CowboyNQ said:

in terns of the appropriateness of the prop artistically these things are subjective, but the band is a VH tribute.

 

Yeah that apparently subtle fact seems to be lost on the police here getting on your case.

No wonder this world is upside down.

[CowboyNQ]

3 hours ago, bill5 said:

I agree. Granted, he could have been less of a douche about how he addressed it, but you set yourself up for trouble by not telling him about it/showing it to him up front. And as stated, the crowd didn't know, so it's promoting a "hey getting hammered in public is so cool!" thing, whether you meant to or not. 

  

It might have still had a residual JD smell about it.

 

I've dealt with an ahole bar manager a time or two, but it had nothing to do with gigging, so probably best to pass on the story.  

I think you’ve encapsulated my feelings succinctly.  We should have cleared the prop ahead of time, and the bar manager should have been WAY less of a douche.  He really was very unpleasant to us, which I’m proud to say was not reciprocated.

[CowboyNQ]

2 hours ago, Lindaru said:

In looking at it in a different perspective, less of just a music performance but a stage performance overall, I have been in plays where we used "fake" alcohol as part of the script.  I doubt the audience thought we were using real alcohol but just presenting a part of the story.

I do agree that it should be planned in advance (just like the directors and stage managers of theater know in advance that it is not real alcohol) and let them know it was just part of the musical script so to speak, although very ad lib.

Just my two and a half cents (adjusted for inflation).
 

Thanks Linda - yes our inexperience with stage props caught us out here.  Lesson learned.

[CowboyNQ]

1 hour ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

That's the part that I find the most astonishing - that he wanted to do a taste test after the band had been swigging and backwashing some unknown liquid.  The bar manager has about as much sense as a tree stump.

 

Diseases transferred via saliva:

• Epstein-Barr virus (mononucleosis, or mono).
• Type 1 herpes (cold sores).
• Strep bacteria.
• Hepatitis B and hepatitis C.
• Covid
• Rhinovirus (colds).
• Flu virus.
• Cytomegalovirus

 

Oh we have way more diseases than that…

 

Yep very strange behaviour.  A smell of the bottle would have as effectively and far less riskily revealed its contents.

 

Not interrupting the show would have been even better.  If he felt compelled to discover the contents of the bottle, he had plenty of other ways to get hold of it without tying up our lead singer mid performance.

[CowboyNQ]

35 minutes ago, Baldwin Funster said:

Still am. I tried to stop but they keep pulling me back in.

You played great too.  Hope you didn’t chip a tooth on the bottle.

[Josh Paxton]

Ah, this reminded me of my tenure with Tony Clifton. Sometimes the Gentleman Jack bottle he was swigging from all night contained tea... and sometimes it contained Gentleman Jack. You just never knew...

[CowboyNQ]

28 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

Yeah that apparently subtle fact seems to be lost on the police here getting on your case.

No wonder this world is upside down.

 

[bill5]

2 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

Yeah that apparently subtle fact seems to be lost on the police here getting on your case.

No wonder this world is upside down.

At ease Francis, nobody is "getting on his case." Just agreeing to disagree with the initial post, and even he is pretty much doing the same now. It's a live and learn thing. 

[bill5]

I guess the "Poindexter" thing makes sense in your world; whatever. Anyway...

 

No I didn't "get on his case." I simply pointed out a reason why I thought doing what they did might not have been advisable, even though no harm was meant and it was a VH cover/tribute thing. Sad how even the OP himself understood that and where we were coming from with our replies in general, yet you don't. 

[Markay]

Yep just a dick Paul, but the tilldas won so all good.

[Markay]

So when is Jump coming to PM?

[Old No7]

19 hours ago, CowboyNQ said:

...thought it would be cool to bring a bottle of Jack Daniel’s on stage as a prop.  The original contents had been replaced with tea, ain’t no way we’re swigging Jack Daniel’s neat on stage and still playing the correct notes

 

I always had a fifth of REAL Jack Daniels placed on the corner of my Hammond and the singer, bass player and I would take a few sips here and there to clear our throats and help with the vocals (so we said) -- as that was much better than downing a beer and needing to pee in the middle of "Foreplay"!  (Which would be bad enough on stage -- but worse in the bedroom...)  Anyhow, at one of our last gigs at a large outdoor venue (early 80's, in college) we found out just 5 minutes before we started that we were "not getting paid" as we were told...  Let's say we hit on Jack a little harder than normal that day, and during "Hold Your Head Up" -- I could barely do so...

 

Not my proudest moment on stage, but a lesson learned...

 

Old No7

[CowboyNQ]

12 hours ago, bill5 said:

At ease Francis, nobody is "getting on his case." Just agreeing to disagree with the initial post, and even he is pretty much doing the same now. It's a live and learn thing. 

Not really disagreeing with myself at all there Bill!  My original post stated we learned a lesson from the experience in the last paragraph.  It’s always important to ask oneself “what could I have done differently to prevent this from happening?”  We made the mistake of assuming that our friend would understand the context of the JD bottle given the act we were tributing.  This was naive on our part.
 

I should also mention that culturally speaking, Australians are very relaxed about alcohol, including teetotallers - one of whom happens to be my brother, the chief offender.  Perhaps he’s more of a tea totaller.  This makes a bar manager objecting to alcohol (fake or not) on stage very unusual.  I speak from deep experience.
 

We’ll continue to use the bottle as a prop as we believe it’s appropriate, however in future we’ll word up bar staff in advance.  I know what will happen - they’ll shrug and say “whatever”, but at least we’ll prevent future flare ups.

 

What I do most certainly disagree with is the behaviour of the bar manager.  There was no call for it at all.  His approach, demeanour and inferences were rude, unprofessional and unhelpful.  I’m proud to say we did not return fire in kind.

[CowboyNQ]

1 hour ago, Markay said:

So when is Jump coming to PM?

We are imaginatively titled Van Halen Experience and we’d love to do PM, however that dream is maybe a couple of years and a few (hopefully) successful gigs away.

[Reezekeys]

This all reminds me that I remember hearing the Stones had a bar set up on stage on one of their tours. And what about the "barf buckets" in New Orleans? Is that an old wive's tale or were those for real?

 

Here in NY state, bars have been sued for serving alcohol to obviously drunk people who proceeded to crash their cars on the way home. While the situation described in this thread is nothing at all like that, it could be that a nervous manager didn't want what appeared to be a display of excessive drinking taking place... just spitballing here.