Behringer KXD and New Roland Keyboard Amps - any better?

[DroptopBroham]

I know the consensus here from time immemorial is that powered PA speakers is the way to go for keyboard amplification but is that still the case?

 

At the home studio I am using a pair of JBL's for practice and jamming and for playing out am using my Traynor K4 for a monitor while going out to FOH but question is mainly for rehearsal. Would like to get something cheap to leave at the rehearsal space, drummer uses an electronic kit in there so the volume levels are tame.

 

Was thinking of picking up a cheap PA speaker like an Alto but reading reviews on Swater the Behringer KXD and Roland keyboard amps are getting rave reviews. Rolands are too pricy so looking at the KXD12 or 15.

 

The thing that is swaying me is that a few of the reviews say how the KXD blows away what they were getting from their QSC and other PA speakers.

 

I really don't have any place to try them out in person, Gcenter doesn't carry Behringer anymore. I had one of their keyboard amps about 20 years ago and it was a little better and significantly cheaper than the Roland equivalent at the time.

 

What's the current state of these keyboard amps, have they improved to where they are on par with a powered PA speaker? I like the price and input, eq and output configuration better on the KXD which is why it is tempting. Are they now basically just powered PA speakers themselves with more ins and outs eq and effects? It's like you're getting the speaker and a small mixer all-in-one with no extra power chord or cables. I like the convenience. Would also be running a mic for occasional backing vocals.

 

Does anyone have any experience with the recent Behringers and Rolands? 

[D. Gauss]

it's your back, you decide what you want to schlep, but those 1-ton, MDF boat anchors aren't for me.  

[PolyBrute]

Can't answer your question specifically, but when I'm not using studio monitors or going direct into the board, I use an EV ZLX12P or a pair of them as my monitor(s) (actually, I also use it as my stage monitor when going direct...). It is just a PA speaker, but it's FRFR, lightweight, and cheap. I think keyboard amps are basically dead now that PA speakers are so ubiquitous and inexpensive. I'd say go for the best FRFR/PA speaker you can afford. Get a pair for stereo.

[Stokely]

I have been using in-ears almost exclusively, but I'm getting some gigs--including a few sub-in gigs--where I need an "amp".  Not even considering anything other than a PA speaker.  Mainly because I'd be using it more as a general wedge in most cases and not just for keyboards; but also because I don't want coloration--a PA speaker is designed for accurate reproduction (to varying degrees this is successful) and any coloration I'll do onboard the keyboards or effects.   And it's hard to argue against a 20" box with a 10" speaker that weighs 20-30 pounds.   Also, if I ever actually need a PA speaker I'll have one--an amp can only be an amp.

I also don't happen to need bass, an 8 or 10 inch speaker is fine if it is a good one.  Most of those amps are big monsters, I just don't play loud anymore and basically refuse to.  Any loud gig I'll be at will have a PA, so I just need to be louder than a drummer.

My conundrum is whether to go low end, high(ish) end, or something between.  Sweetwater will give me a modest discount on a couple different RCF models, thinking maybe the ART910a will be the one.  This is by no means high end, but it should be quite a bit better and louder (if needed) than something like an alto.  Basically at this point in my gigging life I don't want to buy "good for the money" stuff, I just want "good", though I like to only use gig money on gigging gear so that's within reason!  And reliable, if at all possible!

[Moonglow]

I have a Behringer KXD15 I use with my “B-rig” for rehearsals, pick-up gigs, backyard parties, etc. The sound quality is not nearly as good as my EV powered speaker, and probably weighs just as much, if not heavier.

 

But for the stated purpose, it works nicely. Lots of bang for your buck.

[dazzjazz]

I was surprised recently when I played a real Rhodes through a little KC40 or 60 recently - it actually sounded pretty good. 

[DroptopBroham]

Thanks for the responses. I agree that the Rolands are heavy but the Behringers are lighter, around the same as a powered PA speaker. weight isn't much of an issue since the plan is to leave it at the rehearsal room. Really would like decent sound and something cheap just for rehearsals. Those EVs are like $550, my budget would be 300 to 400 and mono is fine.

 

If the Alto TS412 sounds better than the KXD15, I guess I'll roll with the Alto. My only issue is with a dual keyboard rig, I'd have to run my mic to the main board but that isn't too big of a deal.

 

Moonglow, why do you prefer to use the KXD over your EV for rehearsals and parties if the EV sounds better and is lighter? I'm looking at getting the amp or speaker for the same scenarios.

 

 

[drawback]

Small practice amps like the VX50KB might do the trick. Discussed here.

[Moonglow]

4 hours ago, DroptopBroham said:

Moonglow, why do you prefer to use the KXD over your EV for rehearsals and parties if the EV sounds better and is lighter? I'm looking at getting the amp or speaker for the same scenarios.

 

 

With my “B-Rig” it’s all about simplicity. No small mixer to hook up (among other things). When my Barbetta started to become noisy, I got the KDX15. Much heavier, but I can still get everything into my Honda Accord. 

[Jose EB5AGV]

I use a 2009 vintage Behringer K1800FX, which is a predecessor of the KXD series. It does its job nicely... Until it breaks!

 

You can read here about my amp:

 

My K1800FX repair

 

As I bought it used just some months ago, with apparently very low hours on it, I have repaired it (will update my web soon, as I do some stress tests) and hope it will keep working for some time. But, so far, I keep it on the suspicious list. He will need to prove I can trust it! 😆

[cphollis]

I use a CPS SSv3 for pickup gigs where everyone brings an amp.   The first time I lay into a stereo leslie swirl, heads turn, and that's sort of fun.

 

If I was looking for something basic, I'd probably do a lightweight bass guitar amp.  I've played through a few, and they're fine for that purpose.  Surprisingly light and powerful.

[Adan]

On 6/1/2023 at 9:46 AM, DroptopBroham said:

 

 

What's the current state of these keyboard amps, have they improved to where they are on par with a powered PA speaker?

No, but if you're just looking for something you can leave in a rehearsal space that won't badly dent your wallet, a keyboard amp should be fine.  If it were me, I'd go with the cheapest alternative that gets the job done.

 

In my worldview, generally speaking, keyboard amps and powered speakers serve different purposes.  Amps are for onstage monitoring, speakers are for projecting your sound to the audience.  But there are exceptions . . .

[Stokely]

Speakers in the form of wedges are also used for on-stage monitoring.

I've never yet played through any amp or cheap speaker that didn't make piano sound terrible.  That said there are a lot of them I haven't used.   I'd argue that practice is a place where you need to sound good and hear yourself clearly even more than a gig is (where if you really know a song, you can power through bad monitoring).

I did take a look at the Bose S1 when there was a recent sale.  It's kind of an odd hybrid.

[Adan]

3 hours ago, Stokely said:

  I'd argue that practice is a place where you need to sound good and hear yourself clearly even more than a gig is (where if you really know a song, you can power through bad monitoring).

 

Well there's a million and one things we don't know about the OP, like what's his budget, how is the rehearsal studio set up, how loud are his bandmates, and so on.  Sure, it's possible that a $1,000 set of powered speakers is the only way he can hear himself.  More likely, it's a small room where he can set up a Roland amp behind him, so he's loudest in his own ears, and he'll be fine.  In rehearsal rooms, as opposed to gigs, you can engineer your sound and then just leave it, certain it will sound the same next week.  For gigs, you have to be prepared for and have capacity to deal with the unexpected.

 

I've been in bands (not recently, thankfully) where being able to hear myself at rehearsal depended on whether the guitar and bass players were doing coke, because if they wanted to drown me out all they had to do was turn up, and under the influence they always would.  So there's all kinds of ways to solve a hearing-yourself-at-rehearsal problem.

[Stokely]

Oh certainly.  Getting offtopic but my favorite rant is about how bands should really do acoustic practices to learn songs.  Drummer can play bongos on a chair cushion.  Turn up a bit if you must at the end but the whole "has to be at GIG VOLUME" is a crock for us these days, considering most of our gigs are low volume.   How many hours I'd like back with people yelling into a loud mic to "STOP" because everyone blew past the bridge, but it was so loud that nobody even noticed (and of course, not everyone learned the songs at home to begin with...)

It's definitely something I've noticed because I haven't often bothered to break out my IEMS (mainly because the band doesn't break out the main mixer) for practices, so I hear worse at practice than I do at gigs!

[Reezekeys]

Rehearsing is about getting the notes and arrangements right and playing together as a group. IMO instrumental sound quality is not a major concern unless it's bad enough to actually interfere with your ability to play the notes correctly.

 

Of course you need to hear yourself clearly and if the band is loud that means whatever amp you use will need some juice to play without distortion. I second Stokely's contention that rehearsals should be low in volume. You're gonna probably blow your ears out on the gig, do you need to do it at a rehearal as well? 🙂 Having said that, I've done some gigs playing pretty loud with my two Alto TX308s and they were adequate - not the greatest when pushed hard but they definitely got the job done, I heard myself in stereo, they're cheap ($140 each) and featherweight. Great for solo or duo gigs too.

[DroptopBroham]

Just a few thoughts and clarifications. Was able to have a mini-shootout yesterday with my Numa X playing through a pair of 8" JBL powered PA speakers, the Traynor K4 and a Fender Rumble 100 (the new light as a feather one with the 12" speaker).

 

I'd have to say order of sound quality was JBL, K4, with the bass amp last. Acoustic piano was maybe 6/10 on the JBLs, usable but nothing great, 5/10 on the K4 and 1/10 on the Rumble. Synth and strings sounds were about 9/10 with JBL, 8/10 on the K4 and 1/10 on the Rumble. With Rhodes and Wurly though all amps sounded really good, like 8 or 9 out of 10 good, the Rumble was a solid 8 here.

 

That old Behringer I had around 20 years ago was a K900FX with the 12" speaker. I remember it being weak for AP but decent for organ, synth and EPs. I was in a trio and used it at parties and restaurants but stuck to EP since APs sounded like garbage.

 

The band I'm looking to use this as a rehearsal amp for is a standard issue cover band so I need everything to sound decent not just EPs. At rehearsal, the volume levels are low so even something like a 60 watt amp would likely be more than enough. My budget here is cheap like under 400 cheap. This is something I want to leave at a rehearsal space and would be using once a week.

 

Really thinking about just grabbing another 8" PA speaker like the Alto which is really cheap and throw out my dream of running my vocals through it. Bringing in a small mixer to run my voice and two boards through is a bridge too far. I don't want the expense or cable nightmare and then have to find a place for it to plug in and sit on.

 

The KXD's look pretty much the same as the old amps, so based on your response and how the Rumble sounded I guess they sound the same too. I  don't need the best fidelity, but I don't want synth and AP to sound thin and lifeless either like a wet transistor radio.

[Adan]

Just perusing Sweetwater, it seems like for $400-ish you can get a couple powered speakers with 2 inputs each, probably either Alto or Behringer.  That's as close as you can come to meeting your goals with new gear.

 

Roland amps are more expensive than they used to be.  If I was keyboard amp shopping I'd pay a little bit more for Motion Sound (and in fact i did).  

[DroptopBroham]

Just checked out Sweetwater and Guitar Center and what did I find? GC has Harbinger powered PA speakers with three channels plus bluetooth. 2 hondos for the 8. Never seen anything with more than 2 channels until now.

 

What's the word on Harbinger? Is that GC's store brand? Are they on par with Alto and Behringer or lower on the food chain? I've got a GC about 60 miles from me, tempted to make a run.

[Stokely]

I've personally kind of settled in to stretching (with a bit of a discount from Sweetwater) up to either the RCF HD10a or (more likely) a bit more up the RCF ART910a.  I've tried one provided RCF as a wedge--though I didn't catch the model, wish I had--and was very impressed.   I'm not going stereo anymore so one "better" (these are not "high end") speaker I think will beat two lesser ones, and the cost will come out to be comparable.

I've always seen Harbinger on the same level as Gemini/Behringer but I could be mistaken.   I've tried Mackie thumps, some Behringer model and a few other cheaper wedges and piano sounded awful on all of them.  Big difference playing piano through one of my band's QSC k10.2s, they've jacked the price on those and that's the main reason I'm going with RCF.

 

[stoken6]

@DroptopBrohamIf you are looking for something to 

21 hours ago, DroptopBroham said:

leave at a rehearsal space

Then what's the problem with 

21 hours ago, DroptopBroham said:

Bringing in a small mixer to run my voice and two boards through

I would understand the extra effort/complexity would be a downside if you had to bring it to/from every rehearsal. But setting it up once? You need a little line mixer - a cheap Behringer MX400 or similar will do the trick. Add a two-input powered speaker of your choice. 

 

If you can find a 3-input speaker, that's great.

 

One other thought - you said you had the option to

On 6/1/2023 at 10:49 PM, DroptopBroham said:

run my mic to the main board

Does your "main board" have a spare pre-fade send? You could run both keyboards and your mic to the "main board", and take a pre-fade send of those three back down to your powered speaker - no personal mixer required.

 

Cheers, Mike.