Repairing RH3 keybed, how difficult/expensive?

[Paul Woodward]

Hi all. I have a Korg Grandstage which I really like especially the RH3 keybed, but would rather not lug it about to gigs. I also have a Yamaha YC61 which has great sounding pianos (but not a great keybed for piano playing). Sooooo, I asked a while ago about recommendations for weighted controllers to drive the pianos from the YC, and I have since spotted a Korg D1 from a reputable retailer being sold as damaged in transit. Basically, its still boxed, unused and fully working (they say), but several keys have been squashed down (or something dropped on them) in transit while the rest of the board looks perfect and comes with warranty I believe (not sure how that works). Piano sounds of that board aside (I could still use them in a pinch), Korg do not offer a controller keyboard with RH3 keybed so this is technically the cheapest route to achieving that. All depends on how easy it would be to fix those three black keys (plus any others the seller hasn't fully tested). It also has the bonus of a midi port on the back rather than USB.

I watched one video saying the RH3 was notoriously hard to dismantle/repair while some others have made it sound quite easy to repair.

So, any thoughts on the viability of repairing this? Its around half the price of a new unit and I am UK based by the way so parts would have to be affordably imported or available in my country. Considering its primarily a master keyboard just to play the piano sounds from another board, I wouldn't want to spend a fortune trying to repair it. Seller describes this as 'should be a fairly easy repair'...but they probably would 😉 

 

 

[ProfD]

IMO, I don't see this being *worth* the hassle of buying and repairing. 

 

The cost savings will be minimized factoring in time and effort.

 

Now, if this Korg D1 was being given away for free, that would be worth it.😁😎

[Paul Woodward]

16 minutes ago, ProfD said:

IMO, I don't see this being *worth* the hassle of buying and repairing. 

 

The cost savings will be minimized factoring in time and effort.

 

Now, if this Korg D1 was being given away for free, that would be worth it.😁😎

Watching this, I am inclined to agree. Could be the key, the spring, the chassis or the weighted mechanism...or all of the above and several keys as well 😞 

 

Always wondered why Korg don't make a RH3 based controller board (and ideally 73/76 note)....Roland and Yamaha have always done something using their weighted boards (admittedly not so much Yamaha nowadays).

 

 

[cphollis]

Not recommending you buy such a thing, but I had something similar happen on a non-RH3 action, and it was as simple as tilting and pushing back the affected keys so they were once again hinged properly.  It can happen in transit.

[timwat]

I have a GREAT deal of experience doing DIY repairs of RH3. 

 

I have an original Kronos, and was routinely replacing individual keys...they would typically snap at the back of the key and thus lose their pivot as the spring wasn't grabbing the back of the key anymore. I purchased a bunch of replacement keys and got pretty fast at disassembling the Kronos from the bottom, removing the action, taking out the broken key and replacing with a new one. 

 

Eventually, I ended up purchasing an entire new RH3 73 key, and DIY installing it. There must be something different from the original one, as I've not yet broken a key in the replacement RH3.

 

Obviously, this became a substantial pain in the butt, as not a single Yamaha I've owned has ever had this kind of problem. Caveat emptor.

[Finale]

A few thoughts here (know the RH3 action by heart).

 

You could ask for a pic of the original box and/or a video with the seller playing keys on it with sound. If you see big damage on the box or if they don't want to send a video as proof the unit works fine, forget about this. It is indeed easy to fix if the keys are simply out of their fulcrums. What's not so good is if the seller says it is easy to repair, why doesn't he fix it before selling the unit. Reputable music stores have a keyboard tech for such quick works. A positive point is there doesn't seem to have damage on the upper part of the D1 near the controls.

 

For RH3 keys to disconnect this way, you need a quite important amount of vibration. Or someone who initially assembled the keys incorrectly, which is doubtful to happen at a Korg factory. Another possibility is that the middle octave keys broke after a shock. Then you need RH3 parts and they are difficult to find. Or you could swap the broken keys with their counterparts on the highest octave. BTW, problems start at the lower Bb up to the B key one octave higher. The worse I see is, the B under the lower disconnected Bb seems equal with his adjacent A and you cannot remove a black key on a RH3 unless the two whites around it are removed. In other words, this Bb key is probably damaged/broken.

 

So now, even if you would swap the damaged keys with the highest octave ones, what happened with the rest of the unit following intense vibration or it was roughly dropped during transport ? Maybe there are now loose metallic leaf springs shorting components, PCB damage, etc. So I would recommend to buy it only if you are used to fix such stuff.

[Paul Woodward]

This is from Scan in the UK who were a computer supplier but now cover a range of electrical gadgets etc. Reputable and been going for years. They said this:

"Given the damage it's sold as seen sadly -  keys do play just F sharp 2 and some others keys sticking"

 

They advise checking it in person and will reduce the price further for collection to £270...it's around 30 minutes from the hotel I am staying in.

However, I take all the comments on board and will probably give this a miss. Korg do a refurb model with full 3 year warranty for £419 (out of stock at the moment, but often appear) so I am likely to make up that cost difference in parts (which I think have to be imported from overseas). I used to love these little DIY repairs, but they are more fun on flea market price buys. This is almost the same price as a brand new weighted Studiologic controller, and if it weren't for that RH3 keybed I probably wouldn't give it a second thought.

[ProfD]

As a DIYer, I enjoy taking things apart to upgrade and/or repair them.  But, it has to be worth the investment of time and/or money. 😎

[Adam Burgess]

I’ve rebuilt maybe 4/5 RH3 keybeds, so got lots of experience, and so I’ve got spares handy. It’s time consuming and fiddly work.

 

Korg UK are really good regarding parts. Can’t fault them at all.

 

Up to you if it’s worth buying, taking a day taking the thing to bits, understand how it works, and then making an assessment. Personally I would. I used an SV1 as a controller for a while while waiting for some Kronos bits - too heavy and bulky for that purpose…! 

[Paul Woodward]

What do you guys make of this? Seller claims it is in great condition but I pointed out the dropped lowest note (A). He said it sometimes ‘doesn’t spring back up’ but plays fine. Hmmm, we had to agree to disagree on what ‘playing fine’ constitutes.

Top view of that note seems to show something metal under the key, or something trapped in there. It’s quite local and a decent price but I suspect that key will need fixing/replacing. 
 

[Reezekeys]

If I had to have one bad note on my keyboard then the low A would be my pick! If it still plays OK it could be a simple fix. Even if you're replacing the key, how much could it be for a single key? I might chance it, depending on the price of course.

[Paul Woodward]

17 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

If I had to have one bad note on my keyboard then the low A would be my pick! If it still plays OK it could be a simple fix. Even if you're replacing the key, how much could it be for a single key? I might chance it, depending on the price of course.

I agree mate, and will follow this one up, but curious what the hell that metal is. How funny would it be to find it’s a coin fallen in and that’s it…

Is there any aspect of the key weight mechanism or chassis that could come forward like that?

[stoken6]

I see this as an opportunity for intense, albeit creative, bargaining.

 

"Do you know, of all the keys that one's my absolute favo(u)rite. I would say I like it about as much as I like all the others put together. So if 50% of what I like isn't working, what would you say...?"

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Paul Woodward]

I like your thinking. Made an offer, let’s see what he says before I head up to check it out.

[DeltaJockey]

If the bottom A plays but doesn't spring back, it's probably the leaf spring that has popped out. A relatively easy thing to fix. As long as there's no broken plastic tabs on the hinged part of the key. Even then, one key to buy and fix is less of a problem, and being the end key it should be even easier

[Paul Woodward]

7 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

If the bottom A plays but doesn't spring back, it's probably the leaf spring that has popped out. A relatively easy thing to fix. As long as there's no broken plastic tabs on the hinged part of the key. Even then, one key to buy and fix is less of a problem, and being the end key it should be even easier

Agreed, but still puzzled what the metal part is there. It looks bigger than the leaf spring and I imagine that would be well inside the machine. Still, only one way to find out 🙂

[DeltaJockey]

Yeah, I was thinking the same about that metal sticking out. It looks a bit rounded like the end of a knife handle!

I wonder if it's something someone tried to stick in there to lever the key up, and then it got stuck in there too

[Paul Woodward]

Drat, I think the 5p coin theory was closer to the truth than I may have joked. He said something was 'stuck' in there and, having removed it, the key works fine so any leverage on price (excuse the pun) has gone. Gonna be somewhere nearer £400 now and less tempting as a master keyboard bearing in mind I already have the RH3 on my GS. 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Give it a miss

 

[Paul Woodward]

2 minutes ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

Give it a miss

 

Wise words, I guess I'm just a bargain hunter at heart 😉 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Just now, Paul Woodward said:

Wise words, I guess I'm just a bargain hunter at heart 😉 

There'll be more soon enough if you live in a populated area/city. Bide your time. 

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

On 4/19/2023 at 2:55 PM, timwat said:

I have a GREAT deal of experience doing DIY repairs of RH3. 

 

I have an original Kronos, and was routinely replacing individual keys...they would typically snap at the back of the key and thus lose their pivot as the spring wasn't grabbing the back of the key anymore. I purchased a bunch of replacement keys and got pretty fast at disassembling the Kronos from the bottom, removing the action, taking out the broken key and replacing with a new one. 

 

Eventually, I ended up purchasing an entire new RH3 73 key, and DIY installing it. There must be something different from the original one, as I've not yet broken a key in the replacement RH3.

 

Obviously, this became a substantial pain in the butt, as not a single Yamaha I've owned has ever had this kind of problem. Caveat emptor.

Where did you buy the rh3 73 keybed?

[timwat]

13 hours ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

Where did you buy the rh3 73 keybed?

 

From Sweetwater Parts Department.

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

On 9/5/2023 at 1:37 PM, timwat said:

 

From Sweetwater Parts Department.

Thanks.  Do you remember the price?  I'm sure that was several several years ago...

[timwat]

Julius,

 

This was way back from 2018. Price was $474.50, which included $9 for shipping (unit price $465.50).

 

While I placed my order in September 2018, it was quoted as "out of stock at vendor - tentative stock at vendor ETA 6-8 weeks". 

 

I think it actually took 6 months (February 2019 or later) until it actually arrived.

 

Hope that helps you some.

 

Tim

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

On 9/10/2023 at 12:21 PM, timwat said:

Julius,

 

This was way back from 2018. Price was $474.50, which included $9 for shipping (unit price $465.50).

 

While I placed my order in September 2018, it was quoted as "out of stock at vendor - tentative stock at vendor ETA 6-8 weeks". 

 

I think it actually took 6 months (February 2019 or later) until it actually arrived.

 

Hope that helps you some.

 

Tim

I have a Kronos project that I'm working on and considering repairing/replacing about 4-6 hammers and keys vs buying a new keybed.  I also have a Kronos 88 keybed that was returned to me after sweetwater but the new keybed in...(way back when Korg did "recall" of sorts on the original RH3 keybeds...  

 

I was wondering if I could take parts from it to replace the bad parts on this current kronor (73) project.   I was considering the fact that the original keybed could have parts from before they changed whatever they changed about rh3.   Trying to make the best long AND short term decision.

[timwat]

I'm not really sure what the mechanical differences (if any) might be between original RH3 and "new and improved". I can tell you I replaced PLENTY of keys in the original RH3 before finally replacing the entire key bed. Once you open the sucker up, it's very straightforward to remove keys and put new ones in. I was snapping them constantly (at the rear pivot point) and then the keys would remain pressed down - very annoying. I'm not a very hard player I don't think...and whatever they did in the new and improved, I've not snapped a key yet.

 

But the original RH3...what a dog.

 

Wish I had better info for you on interchangeability, but I don't...

 

Tim