Pink Floyd "Breathe" - making sense of chord progression

[Morrissey]

I'm learning Breathe for an upcoming gig.  The internet has lots of opinions as to what key(s) it's in.  I welcome opinions on that but am primarily interested in advice/tricks to make sense of the chords in the chorus(?) section so I'm not just memorizing a series of unrelated chords.  

 

Basically, verse is  ||: Em9  - A7 :||    and chorus is    CM7 Bm7 FM7 G D7#9 D7b9 (or last chord maybe D#dim) 

 

 

I know we have several fine Pink Floyd players on the forum.  How do you guys think about/remember this progression?

 

    

[Morrissey]

My best shot thus far is thinking in G major:  IV - iii - weird bVII - I - V (resolving to relative minor E chord)

[MathOfInsects]

I can hear it in Em and/or G Major, but I never think of it that way. It's one of those songs where my understanding of it is, "these are the chords that make up that song"--particularly in the B section. 

One thing I do NOT hear is the A section being a ii-V in D. That section feels very grounded in Em or even as the vi-II in G. 

I definitely hear that little approach as a D#dim, since what it *really* is is the V chord getting back to Em (so, a B7b9). 

Gorgeous song though. I wouldn't overthink it. The writing does the work for you. 

[jerrythek]

I too hear a D#diminished chord, not a D7b9. As for the theory of it... I don't think about it, since the chorus "breaks" any basic analysis, with little functional harmony... once I have to think too far from scale tones, and the song is simple enough I just learn the chords as is. I've never had to transpose it, which might have led me to more analysis.

 

Jerry

[SamuelBLupowitz]

1 minute ago, jerrythek said:

I too hear a D#diminished chord, not a D7b9.

Agreed. The voice leading is taking us from D7 to Emi9. 

[Morrissey]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

I can hear it in Em and/or G Major, but I never think of it that way. It's one of those songs where my understanding of it is, "these are the chords that make up that song"--particularly in the B section. 

 

This goes against all my musical instincts but I'm going to take this as a growth opportunity and lean into this advice.   

[SamuelBLupowitz]

2 hours ago, Morrissey said:

 

This goes against all my musical instincts but I'm going to take this as a growth opportunity and lean into this advice.   

Yeah, I don't think Roger Waters or any of them were playing by any theoretical rules other than "ooh, that sounds cool." I definitely hear the song centered around E minor (or E Dorian in the verses, I guess, given the major IV chord, but we also have the flat sixth with the Cmaj7 and other chords in the chorus). But given that tonal center, there are deliberately unsettling, spacey harmonic progressions taking us through that chorus until we wind up back home... home again... 😉 

[CowboyNQ]

5 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

I can hear it in Em and/or G Major, but I never think of it that way. It's one of those songs where my understanding of it is, "these are the chords that make up that song"--particularly in the B section. 
 

This is exactly my approach.

[Leroy C]

Remember, kids: theory is descriptive, not prescriptive! 

 

Yeah, I agree, though: I don't think they were thinking about it too hard in terms of typical chord progressions.  It's my understanding that it came about from some jam sessions, and they just messed around with what sounded good.

 

Lovely progression!

[MathOfInsects]

I think @Morrissey is more asking how he might think about it, as opposed to what PF might have been thinking in the writing of it. 

I suppose, to come at it harmonically, you could always apprehend the relationship between the various chords in the B section? 'Down a half, up a tritone, up a step, down to the fifth, etc?

Or you could visualize what's happening around the E, which is pretty cool: they sort of dance around returning to that tonic, delaying it by smaller and smaller steps as they go--a third below, a fourth below, up PAST the tonic to F, and higher past it to G, and down to the step below it, maybe we're getting back now, but NO, instead it's up to the half-step below it, and then finally ahhhhhhhhhh, back to that E. 

Or just memorize it and enjoy the crunchy harmonies they gave us. 

[analogika]

The only one that's odd is the FM7, but that's a bVII which is really common in pop/rock stuff (usually followed by a IV and then a I). 

[DanL]

The last chord of the chorus is Eb major. So CM7 Bm7 FM7 G D7#9 Eb then back to Em. 

 

[Leroy C]

Okay, I'll take a stab.  I going by the chord changes I remember playing a long time ago, which might be a little different than some above.

 

I think the Em7 - A section is just in A major.  That's what the vocal melody sounds like to me, anyway.  So then it's just V7 - I, except they thought the minor five chord sounded cool, so they went with v7 - I instead.  Maybe it's better to think of it in A mixolydian instead of major, so you have that G natural for the Em7 chord.

 

Then I think it has a key center change.  The CM7 - Bm7 - FM7 - G sections sounds like it's in C to me: it's just I - IV - V, and the Bm7 chord is like an anticipatory tritone sub for the next chord (the IV) so the bass line and vocal melody can do the cool half-step move.

 

Then it's moving back to A, but via the parallel A minor (considering the vocal line) for a moment: the D7#9 - D#dim is IV7#9 - #ivdim7 leading to the Em7 (v7) of the main Em7 - A part again.  That is, it's a turnaround that suggests A minor (the relative minor for the preceding C major section) before going to the parallel A major again.

 

Whew! 

 

[CyberGene]

1 hour ago, DanL said:

The last chord of the chorus is Eb major. So CM7 Bm7 FM7 G D7#9 Eb then back to Em. 

Hmm, are you sure about that? The Eb to me is only a melody note above the D7#9 chord and it’s the b9 to that D7alt chord (as it is called in jazz). 

[DanL]

I wasn't convinced it was Eb either but my guitar player picked it apart and the band all agreed he was right. 

[analogika]

14 minutes ago, TheophilusCarter said:

 

I think the Em7 - A section is just in A major. 

 

isn’t the A a dominant 7?

[MathOfInsects]

With respect to your guitar player, it most definitely is not Eb--unequivocally not. It's closest to a D# dim, but I sometimes hear an F in there, so it's really D#dim with an F in the mix. Basically the same as the previous chord with the strong movement to (and addition of) the D#.

Listen at 1:14: 

 

[MathOfInsects]

20 minutes ago, analogika said:

isn’t the A a dominant 7?

Actually a 9 if you account for that little Rhodes fill at the beginning.  

[Leroy C]

29 minutes ago, analogika said:

isn’t the A a dominant 7?

Maybe?! :D. I actually used to play it as a Asus2, but I went with A because of the vocal melody.  I'll allow A7, though, as it fits my A mixolydian theory, but still think it's a I chord, maybe just a I7!  Like lots of jazz and blues and rock tunes.

[CyberGene]

12 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

It's closest to a D# dim, but I sometimes hear an F in there, so it's really D#dim with an F in the mix.

It’s all part of the D7b9#9 chord. I’m intentionally not writing it as D7alt since the jazz version implies b13 (and lacks the pure 5th). If you write all the tones bass to treble:

D F# A C Eb E#

 

So, you already have the F# dim inside (enharmonic to D# dim you hear)

 

To me it’s just a D7#9 chord with a voice leading from E# to Eb (#9 to b9). That’s a very jazzy stuff usually resolving to Gm7 but what’s really great here is it goes back to Em7. Aren’t Pink Floyd great!
 

[MathOfInsects]

2 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

It’s all part of the D7b9#9 chord. I’m intentionally not writing it as D7alt since the jazz version implies b13 (and lacks the pure 5th). If you write all the tones bass to treble:

D F# A C Eb E#

 

So, you already have the F# dim inside (enharmonic to D# dim you hear)

 

To me it’s just a D7#9 chord with an Eb note (the b9). 
 

Yeah, these are all versions of the same interpretation. The actual bass note is D# though, so it's most properly named after a D# chord of some kind or another. But it's all the same notes in play (none of which spell an Eb chord). 

[Delaware Dave]

paralysis by over analysis....

[Leroy C]

2 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

paralysis by over analysis....

Or a fun drinking game!

[Delaware Dave]

watch this video at the 2:33 mark, you can see what gilmour is playing.....  then you can debate whether he's actually playing the song correctly.

 

 

[Mills Dude]

Richard Wright "borrowed" the D7#9 from "All Blues" on "So What" as a way to get back to G.  Not sure about an Eb triad, but the #9 moves down the the b9 for a turnaround back to G or its relative Em.

 

I remember seeing this clip sometime ago, found a snippet on the youtube.

 

 

Adding to my post ...

 

Found a reddit discussion about this -- 

The editor here is showing its been deleted but its viewable in my browser.

 

A comment of note is --

[Morrissey]

3 hours ago, TheophilusCarter said:

Okay, I'll take a stab.  I going by the chord changes I remember playing a long time ago, which might be a little different than some above.

 

I think the Em7 - A section is just in A major.  That's what the vocal melody sounds like to me, anyway.  So then it's just V7 - I, except they thought the minor five chord sounded cool, so they went with v7 - I instead.  Maybe it's better to think of it in A mixolydian instead of major, so you have that G natural for the Em7 chord.

 

Then I think it has a key center change.  The CM7 - Bm7 - FM7 - G sections sounds like it's in C to me: it's just I - IV - V, and the Bm7 chord is like an anticipatory tritone sub for the next chord (the IV) so the bass line and vocal melody can do the cool half-step move.

 

Then it's moving back to A, but via the parallel A minor (considering the vocal line) for a moment: the D7#9 - D#dim is IV7#9 - #ivdim7 leading to the Em7 (v7) of the main Em7 - A part again.  That is, it's a turnaround that suggests A minor (the relative minor for the preceding C major section) before going to the parallel A major again.

 

Whew! 

 

 

I appreciate this analysis.  I tried my hand at it too (see second post, above).  However, my original post is proving to be wishful thinking.  The B section of this song is creatively unusual -- not conducive for my brain to "chunk" into popular music conventions.  Just gonna have to use my brainpower to memorize the entire sequence.  No big deal.  Great tune.  Worth the effort. 

[MAJUSCULE]

In the camp of "don't think too much, just breathe"  Was there a particular reason you wanted to analyze it? Soloing or stretching it out to jam or something, or just curiosity?

 

Otherwise, yeah, I can look at the chord progression and think of the whole tune being in Emi. Now, listening, the verse sounds like it sits more on the A than the Emi, like a v-I, but it's one of those that you can think of as i-IV, ii-V, or v-I and it's all more or less the same to me (in this context).

 

B section I'd look at as bIV, v, bII, bIII, bVII, viidim. All fairly common rock chords, just a little modal borrowing.

 

But yeah, don't overthink. Breathe! ( PS The tempo is right for taking a nice deep breath in for a bar and out for a bar and in for a bar and so on and so forth)

[analogika]

2 hours ago, TheophilusCarter said:

Maybe?! :D. I actually used to play it as a Asus2, but I went with A because of the vocal melody.  I'll allow A7, though, as it fits my A mixolydian theory, but still think it's a I chord, maybe just a I7!  Like lots of jazz and blues and rock tunes.

 

The A is definitely not a mixolydian tonic, as the very final chord of the song amply demonstrates.

[MAJUSCULE]

Hey, just cause it's not the one, doesn't mean it can't feel like the one sometimes!

[Morrissey]

49 minutes ago, MAJUSCULE said:

Was there a particular reason you wanted to analyze it? Soloing or stretching it out to jam or something, or just curiosity?

 

I was searching for a memorization hack for the B section.  I did enough web research before posting this thread to realize smart musicians reasonably disagree on the theoretical explanations underpinning what's going on in that part of the tune.