Pianoteq iOS

[Dr Mike Metlay]

7 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

atm, i have no need/interest for the desktop version, nor an "ecosystem," or a modelled classical guitar.  a single, good sounding, lightweight, mono compatible, ios piano for crappy bar r&r gigs is all i require.  At $49, i'd be willing to take that plunge. at $139? not so much because crappy bar gigs pay poorly here, and the drunk audience isn't going to notice the sound difference.    

Then don’t buy it.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, ninobeatz said:

As an admin of one of the iOS music groups, I can confirm this is true about pricing. But, those of us on iOS understand what Modartt has done here is groundbreaking and needed. Everyone is starting to come around. Just a little sticker shock..that’s all 😂🤣

And other developers are notorious for iOS versions of their macOS/Win software to be a "lite" or lesser.  

[D. Gauss]

11 minutes ago, Dr Mike Metlay said:

Then don’t buy it.

 

 

 

i haven't, and probably won't unless it goes on sale like b3-x did. (thank you app sliced for sending me alerts)

fwiw, look at what happened with waves desktop plugins last month, when they suddenly took away the option to "buy" them and changed to subscription only.  i think that only lasted a weekend because users were so upset and complained heavily. now waves are back to their $29 dollar sales as always.

[ninobeatz]

9 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

And other developers are notorious for iOS versions of their macOS/Win software to be a "lite" or lesser.  

Very true

[ElmerJFudd]

Installed on iPad Pro 3rd Gen 11 inch with an A14.  64 buffer, 48k.  Arping about with pedal down, it says I’m doing about 90 note polyphony.  I have multicore rendering on and CPU overload detection on, but I’m not passing 26% CPU with K2 Mix preset.  It really seems to run well!  

[Radagast]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

They've moved away from that, though. The Physis piano line is discontinued, and their current Legend ’70s acoustic pianos are sampled.

Interesting.  So sampling is good enough for their digital pianos, but not their classical organs.

[Bobby Simons]

Having maintained my Pianoteq ownership though P8, this is an entirely free ride for me. Believe me when I say I would have been more than willing to throw them some more money - this feels like Christmas in May. To have a flawlessly working Pianoteq in my pocket is a thrill. 

[yannis D]

Just one question: 

As an old owner I can purchase the newer version for 29,99 euros because my old license is not supported by the app. But what is not clear to me is if this newer license contains my old piano purchases I had on my Mac or it is just the newer platform and I'll have to buy again each piano separately. I practically want to restore the pianos I had on my old licence but i don't want to buy more for the moment ...

[ElmerJFudd]

16 minutes ago, Radagast said:

Interesting.  So sampling is good enough for their digital pianos, but not their classical organs.

Or they get better results modeling wind through pipes than string+sound board?  Yamaha seems to agree that their sampled pianos with modeling for string and pedal resonance is still more convincing.  Roland is deeply invested in V-Piano but still offers their hybrid supernatural on their Fantom side by side. 

[Jose EB5AGV]

23 minutes ago, yannis D said:

Just one question: 

As an old owner I can purchase the newer version for 29,99 euros because my old license is not supported by the app. But what is not clear to me is if this newer license contains my old piano purchases I had on my Mac or it is just the newer platform and I'll have to buy again each piano separately. I practically want to restore the pianos I had on my old licence but i don't want to buy more for the moment ...

 

You would get all the packs you had bought previously 

[yannis D]

7 minutes ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

 

You would get all the packs you had bought previously 

Yes, this was it... I've just purchased it. 

Too many options too little time.

 

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

I took a peek at the Pianoteq thread on the Audiobus forum, aka IOS music central.  9 pages long and counting.  Some initial shock at the pricing, but they seem to be getting over it and buying it, which surprises me because they're notorious for wanting all apps to cost $20 or less.

 

There are also lots of people who owned the desktop version and were waiting for it to be made available on iOS. For them, the app was way less than $20, it was free!

 

41 minutes ago, Radagast said:

Interesting.  So sampling is good enough for their digital pianos, but not their classical organs.

 

I suppose because it's harder to model a piano really well than an organ. And also, possibly easier to get a really high quality organ from modeling than from sampling (that's certainly true from the tonewheel perspective, at least).

 

Related: As with Viscount, Crumar has moved from modeling to sampling in their acoustic pianos.

[ElmerJFudd]

Owners of Kawai ES-120 and its triple pedal.  Can you confirm that it sends triple pedal messages out its USB midi and it works with Pianoteq 8? 
 

[Dr Mike Metlay]

That’s one of the downsides of pianoteq. Once you’ve used all four pedals, it’s hard to live without them. That harmonic pedal is absolutely amazing!

 

I don’t have the room or the money for that many pedals, so if I want all of that control, I use a four-button Bluetooth pedal from Airturn. It feels terrible and you don’t get progressive action on the damper, But it’s also light and easy to carry out for a live show. 
 

When I let them tour around and see how I do things, people always ask me why I always have a prominent row of four buttons on my desktop control surfaces that are assigned to that weird set of CC messages…

 

Even though I am a primarily experimental musician and my pedal technique is terrible, I love sound design within Pianoteq, and I would have a terrible time without it. So I always optimize my controller setups to keep those “pedals” near at hand, even if I’m not using them with my feet.

 

mike

[Jose EB5AGV]

7 minutes ago, Jazz+ said:

The Steinway D sounds great in Mono!

 

But the Rhodes Mark 1 and Mark 2 are terrible. The ten-year-old Scarbee in Korg Module is much more authentic and musical. It's samples of a real Rhodes each note sounds slightly varied like a real Rhodes does.

Modart needs to do some serious work on their Rhodes EPs. Every note sounds cookie cutter the same and not even like a Rhodes I have ever heard before. Simply awful.

 

Have you tried the condition slider?. In pianos it helps to make them more real.

 

Jose

[Nievski]

I'm over the moon with this release. It's amazing to have a rocket in your pocket 🙂 I went down to my local watering hole / performance venue and plugged my iPhone into their Yamaha P-125, totally blew away the crowd (and not because of my meager keyboard skills). Steinway B sounded even better over the house system.

 

Looking for a new iPad just for Pianoteq. Looks like the 10th gen. iPad OR a refurbished iPad Air 4 is the current bang for the buck, for around US$600++ - both use the A14 CPU. The mini also looks good with the A15 CPU, but that smaller screen is downer for ForScore.

 

On a side note - I tested Pianoteq on several of my older iOS devices, it was sucking wind on my original iPad Air (A7) and iPhone 7 Plus (A10). Very easy to overload those CPUs and start throttling to keep temperatures down. Good news is that my iPhone 11 (A13) - works perfect, couldn't get it to overload or throttle at all. Current iPad line starts with the A13 in the 9th gen. iPad so that should be a good CPU to run Pianoteq. Anything above that should run it no sweat.

 

In the meantime, I'm sitting in the park with an an iPhone, microKey Air 49 and a big smile on my face. 😁

[Theo Verelst]

With musical synthesis software, pricing can be hard to put bounds on. Long ago I programmed a professional sound database for the Atari ST, and there would be some clearness about what people would want to pay for such an elaborate product, for instance compared with other (simpler) offerings.

 

Once the investment is done in terms of good working source DSP code and User Interface code, how much software engineering does it require to port such code to other platforms and OS-es?

 

Just putting all the raisin bread in one basket and make a few bucks selling it isn't as clear cut as turnover versus engineering cost.

 

T.

[D. Gauss]

1 hour ago, Theo Verelst said:

 Once the investment is done in terms of good working source DSP code and User Interface code, how much software engineering does it require to port such code to other platforms and OS-es?

 

i have no idea as i can't even change the time on the clock in my car

 

however,  just to point out another example.  not sure if anyone is familiar with SWAM modelled saxophones/horns, but they are about as good as you can get in a virtual sax instrument.  Very expensive, too. a crazy $1400 all in bundle on the desktop!  the IOS version?   $29 bucks for a sax! (tenor/alto/sop or bari).   a smart deal for everyone.

[brenner13]

I’ll probably wait for a sale. While it is certainly the top notch, best piano app on iOS, I do not have a desktop or laptop capable of running that platform. And I don’t have a decent controller to warrant the hight cost of starting from scratch just to run it on my iPad. My third Numa Compact 2X has worsening hot keys that are way more sensitive to velocity than others. Unless I get a gig that requires Uber-good piano, my gear scenario has helped to curb my music app addiction with this one, so far.

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, brenner13 said:

While it is certainly the top notch, best piano app on iOS

 

Certainly? You've tried and compared it with the other iOS pianos? Not to rain on anyone's parade here, but there are folks here that prefer sampled to modeled pianos. I haven't tried PT myself and it could very well be a great piano, but I can't help reacting with a bit of skepticism whenever I see some new product - hardware or software - receive such hyperbolic praise, especially after such a short period of time since its introduction. I know this was hotly anticipated and the fact that it apparently duplicates the desktop version is very cool. If I wasn't happy with my current iOS piano I would certainly be downloading PT to try. I might do it anyway, since you can apparently get it for $0 with a few keys disabled. Since I don't own PT desktop, it would have to be a significant improvement over my current piano for me to lay out the funds to acquire it. Again, nothing at all against this app or anybody that thinks it's the bee's knees, and I can certainly respect the work it took for the programmers to port this to iOS - I'm guessing it wasn't easy. One bummer is that from what I read in Nievski's post above, it will probably not run well (or at all?) on my original iPhone SE (2016). That's the last & most powerful iPhone with a headphone jack and it runs my current AUM setup with my sampled piano nicely.

[Jose EB5AGV]

7 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Certainly? You've tried and compared it with the other iOS pianos? Not to rain on anyone's parade here, but there are folks here that prefer sampled to modeled pianos. I haven't tried PT myself and it could very well be a great piano, but I can't help reacting with a bit of skepticism whenever I see some new product - hardware or software - receive such hyperbolic praise, especially after such a short period of time since its introduction. I know this was hotly anticipated and the fact that it apparently duplicates the desktop version is very cool. If I wasn't happy with my current iOS piano I would certainly be downloading PT to try. I might do it anyway, since you can apparently get it for $0 with a few keys disabled. Since I don't own PT desktop, it would have to be a significant improvement over my current piano for me to lay out the funds to acquire it. Again, nothing at all against this app or anybody that thinks it's the bee's knees, and I can certainly respect the work it took for the programmers to port this to iOS - I'm guessing it wasn't easy. One bummer is that from what I read in Nievski's post above, it will probably not run well (or at all?) on my original iPhone SE (2016). That's the last & most powerful iPhone with a headphone jack and it runs my current AUM setup with my sampled piano nicely.

 

I guess your iPhone will run Pianoteq nicely, as it uses an A9 processor and on my iPad Air 2, with an A8X, runs fine.

 

Please, let us know if you try it.

 

Jose

[Stefan011]

8 hours ago, Jazz+ said:

The Steinway D sounds great in Mono!

 

But the Rhodes Mark 1 and Mark 2 are terrible. The ten-year-old Scarbee in Korg Module is much more authentic and musical. It's samples of a real Rhodes each note sounds slightly varied like a real Rhodes does.

Modart needs to do some serious work on their Rhodes EPs. Every note sounds cookie cutter the same and not even like a Rhodes I have ever heard before. Simply awful.

 

The EP pressets sound horrible indeed (clav on the other hand is pretty nice). I get the best results with some modulation (tremolo/phaser), room mic and a little bit of amp mixed in. But I hope they upgrade it soon.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

I can't help reacting with a bit of skepticism whenever I see some new product - hardware or software - receive such hyperbolic praise, especially after such a short period of time since its introduction.

People have a lot of experience with what its sounds/functionalities, since it's the same product that they have been shipping on Mac/PC, so it's not really like many people haven't had a chance to truly evaluate it yet. But yes, even on Mac/PC, there are people who think it's the best, and people who... don't.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

3 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

1.

I haven't tried PT myself

[…]

2.
…hyperbolic praise, especially after such a short period of time since its introduction.

3.
[…]
 I know this was hotly anticipated and the fact that it apparently duplicates the desktop version is very cool.

4.

[…]

If I wasn't happy with my current iOS piano I would certainly be downloading PT to try. I might do it anyway, since you can apparently get it for $0 with a few keys disabled.
5.

[…]

Since I don't own PT desktop, it would have to be a significant improvement over my current piano for me to lay out the funds to acquire it 

[…]

 

Sorry about the sloppy formatting but I’m doing this on my phone. I have excerpted parts of this post and numbered them within the quote box itself. Scroll up to verify that they are accurate. 
 

I am trying to avoid any personal opinions on the subject (in this post), but I do have objections to some statements: 

 

1. If you have never tried Pianoteq, your opinion on it is therefore unsubstantiated. This colors everything that follows. 

 

2. Pianoteq has been out for many years and has gradually added more features and more accurate modeling over that time. The only thing new about it is the iOS port, over which people are exclaiming. 
 

3. This is what many of them are exclaiming about. To those who don’t yet have the desktop version it is dauntingly expensive. To those who do, it is far more than “very cool”.

 

4. See item 1. Also, “apparently” is incorrect; there IS a demo version that works as you’ve stated.

(Contrast this with your use of the word in item 3, where it carries weight and substance. Many people have been searching through the iOS version of Pianoteq and comparing it to the desktop version, to see if there is anything missing. Just because it hasn’t happened yet, doesn’t mean it’s not going to. In fact, currently, other forums are discussing the apparent lack of the ability to load convolution reverb IRs as you can on the desktop version. We shall see.)

 

5. This is obvious. We all decide to invest in new things (whether piano software or a new dishwasher) if they meet this criterion. 
 

Look, you do you. If you love sampled pianos, use them. Nobody (with any common sense) would tell you that your opinion on how you make your music is invalid. But if you’re going to raise objections toward something that you’ve never tried, based solely on your personal reaction to the reactions of people who have, expect pushback. 
 

I don’t care if you try Pianoteq or not. I don’t care if you hate it. But at least devote a little time to form your own opinions based on actual experience. 
 

Speaking personally, I would be very interested to read a post from you about your experiences with Pianoteq, with your own opinions on what it does well, and what it does not. The free demo should be more than enough for that. If you don’t think that’s a good use of your time, that’s fine. 
 

Thanks for listening, and I’m sorry if that came across as harsh. But very few things pickle my lutefisk like opinions with no evidence. 
 

mike

 

 

[ChazKeys]

6 hours ago, Stefan011 said:

 

The EP pressets sound horrible indeed (clav on the other hand is pretty nice). I get the best results with some modulation (tremolo/phaser), room mic and a little bit of amp mixed in. But I hope they upgrade it soon.

I think it’s interesting that the Clav modelling is way better than the Rhodes model. Is it because Pianoteq is much more focused on string modelling? I agree the Tine models are poor and although the Reed model is OK they are no way near GSi models found in the Mojo and Gemini. I haven’t tried V Tines but I do own V Reeds and that is excellent but not available on iPad. 
 

I am still waiting for the GSi Magic Tines for iPad. 

[Thethirdapple]

@Dr Mike Metlay are you in anyway affiliated with Pianoteq ?

[CyberGene]

43 minutes ago, Thethirdapple said:

are you in anyway affiliated with Pianoteq ?

Yes, I also wondered whether he might be an insider perhaps. Or a former employee?

[Thethirdapple]

1 hour ago, Jazz+ said:

So if your newer Apple devices do not have headphone jacks, then I assume you must find a USB C dual-purpose dongle with an audio output (headphone jack) and a USCB MIDI IN ("camera adapter")? 

 

I don't see many for sale.

Yup… have one for my iPad mini(usb-c)… and have had them for old 30pin and lightning connections. They tend to work well, although the ipad does not always acknowledge its being charged. 
 

the one i got recently has a usb-c charging port, 1 audio port and 4 usb port. Be mindful in the product description as some only do charging and not data thru usb, and also sometimes data but no charging, so this would no power a usb connected device…

 IoGear is a decent brand.

 

[brenner13]

4 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Certainly? You've tried and compared it with the other iOS pianos? Not to rain on anyone's parade here, but there are folks here that prefer sampled to modeled pianos. I haven't tried PT myself and it could very well be a great piano, but I can't help reacting with a bit of skepticism whenever I see some new product - hardware or software - receive such hyperbolic praise, 

Just voicing my opinion and sharing my current gear status. I have purchased and extensively scrutinize nearly every iOS piano app that has ever been released. Korg’s Module IAP’s (ALL of them) are a bit lackluster for me and seem to have limited dynamics for solo work and recording; however they really work great in a band setting. Samesie for IKM iPiano (ALL IAP’s). I flip back and forth with Ravenscroft and Colossus (again ALL IAP’s) as my faves depending what the song needs, my mood, and the barometric pressure of any given moment. I like character in my pianos so Colossus usually gets first try unless I know the situation requires clean tones of Ravenscroft.

 

I’ve only used the demo on Pianoteq for a couple of days, and perhaps I’m swayed by the new kid in town, but it simply blows away all of the others for the beautiful evolving overtones with no sample loops that I need on long, sustained sections of music. Dynamics are vastly extended beyond any others I’ve tried. And the amount of tweaking available to change the tone and add character vastly outshine my previous faves.

 

Again, just the humble opinion of a hack musician.

[ElmerJFudd]

49 minutes ago, brenner13 said:

Just voicing my opinion and sharing my current gear status. I have purchased and extensively scrutinize nearly every iOS piano app that has ever been released. Korg’s Module IAP’s (ALL of them) are a bit lackluster for me and seem to have limited dynamics for solo work and recording; however they really work great in a band setting. Samesie for IKM iPiano (ALL IAP’s). I flip back and forth with Ravenscroft and Colossus (again ALL IAP’s) as my faves depending what the song needs, my mood, and the barometric pressure of any given moment. I like character in my pianos so Colossus usually gets first try unless I know the situation requires clean tones of Ravenscroft.

 

I’ve only used the demo on Pianoteq for a couple of days, and perhaps I’m swayed by the new kid in town, but it simply blows away all of the others for the beautiful evolving overtones with no sample loops that I need on long, sustained sections of music. Dynamics are vastly extended beyond any others I’ve tried. And the amount of tweaking available to change the tone and add character vastly outshine my previous faves.

 

Again, just the humble opinion of a hack musician.

Depending which tier of the software - it’s certainly the most tweakable to use/taste.