MS Event Processor Sysex handling question

[Analogaddict]

Hi! I'm trying to figure out if the Event Processor (plus) can re-route a sysex message to a CC in realtime. I want to remap C/V and Perc controls on my YC61 from sysex to CC, the manual states that "The Event Processor can be programmed to map any MIDI event to any other MIDI event" - does this apply to my situation too?

[Delaware Dave]

I think that it does.  The trickiest one is C/V because, typically, you have to route a sys-ex to a CC/Data Value Combination.  Example, on my Voce, C/V is a CC# and V1 is data value 18, V2 is the same CC# with midi value 36 and so on.  So you have to route the specific Sys-ex to a CC/Data value in order for it to work correctly.  I think that midi events processor can handle Sys-ex to CC.  You can always write to them:  info@midisolutions.com

[Analogaddict]

54 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

I think that it does.  The trickiest one is C/V because, typically, you have to route a sys-ex to a CC/Data Value Combination.  Example, on my Voce, C/V is a CC# and V1 is data value 18, V2 is the same CC# with midi value 36 and so on.  So you have to route the specific Sys-ex to a CC/Data value in order for it to work correctly.  I think that midi events processor can handle Sys-ex to CC.  You can always write to them:  info@midisolutions.com

Great! Thanks, will do that. All I need at first is on/off switching - I seldom use other settings than C-3 and 3rd soft/fast.

[Al Quinn]

I was able to program the Midi Solutions Event Processor Plus so that it converts SysEx commands from the YC73 to CC. I did this so that I can control the HX3 Expander Module with the YC73 controls. I implemented the drawbars, percussion, and C/V on/off buttons but skipped the various chorus and vibrato choices because I usually don’t change them from their default setting (which is C1 for me).

[wd8dky]

I'm working on a very similar project now: converting the NRPN messages from a Hammond XK-1 to CC to control B3-X. 

[Analogaddict]

On 3/6/2023 at 8:58 PM, Al Quinn said:

I was able to program the Midi Solutions Event Processor Plus so that it converts SysEx commands from the YC73 to CC. I did this so that I can control the HX3 Expander Module with the YC73 controls. I implemented the drawbars, percussion, and C/V on/off buttons but skipped the various chorus and vibrato choices because I usually don’t change them from their default setting (which is C1 for me).

That’s exactly what I’m trying to do. (I use C2, though.  )

was this a tedious process? I have a gig on Wednesday and very little time… classic situation.  

[Al Quinn]

It gets tedious if you're doing extensive mapping but, it looks like you're only looking to map a few buttons so that shouldn't be bad. It took me some time to understand how to use the Midi Solutions programming app. If you already know how to use this app then it's not a difficult process. As I recall, I used a midi monitor app on my computer so that I could see the SysEx messages coming from the YC73 which I then used for programming the Event Processor Plus. I'd gladly share the output of the MS programming app but it's on my PC which I don't have access to right now. If you struggle let me know and I'll try to help.

 

FYI, I found this info in my notes. I don't know why I'm missing Percussion On/Off. It seems my notes are incomplete.

The SysEx messages are bracketed by F0 and F7. The last number in each line is the CC which can be whatever you want it to be.

 

YC73 SysEx Messages, EPP CCs:

Perc Slow     F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 15 00 F7, 88

Perc Fast     F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 15 01 F7, 88

Perc Normal F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 16 01 F7, 89

Perc Soft     F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 16 00 F7, 89

Perc 2nd     F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 14 01 F7, 90

Perc 3rd     F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 14 00 F7, 90

VC Off Upper F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 00 F7, 84

VC On Upper F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 01 F7, 84

VC Off Lower F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 11 12 00 F7, 86

VC On Lower F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 11 12 01 F7, 86

[Delaware Dave]

so F0 through F7 appear to be the sys ex values, last two digits are the CC#.  What happens when you want to map a sys ex string to a midi CC/Data value combination, like CC#88, data value 18.  What does the string look like for that particular scenario?

[Al Quinn]

As I recall the data can be passed through as is or it can be manipulated. I think for the drawbars I mapped the SysEx to the CC that the HX3 Expander Module needed and passed through the data values as is. I don’t have access to the programming script right now so I’m working from memory (which can be a bit sketchy). 

[Analogaddict]

23 hours ago, Al Quinn said:

As I recall the data can be passed through as is or it can be manipulated. I think for the drawbars I mapped the SysEx to the CC that the HX3 Expander Module needed and passed through the data values as is. I don’t have access to the programming script right now so I’m working from memory (which can be a bit sketchy). 

Thanks a million! I went and bought an Event Processor Plus today. 👍

[pjd]

I agree with Al, getting started can be large learning curve. I read through the basic manual and Bruce Wahler's user guide. It didn't start to make sense until I loaded the MIDI Solutions editor and created a few settings.

 

Don't know if you'll need the capability, up to two specific byte values can be stored in variables (XX and YY) or sent along in a CC message.

 

It's a lot to sort through when making a decision to buy. I'm glad I bought an EPP.

 

Hope this helps -- pj

[Analogaddict]

Drawbars (cc) are mapped end working perfectly. I can’t get the sysex to work just yet, I’ve probably messed up some minor detail. 🤦‍♂️ I’m going to try again tomorrow - generally speaking, if I map two sysex values, should they be with opposing values? For instance, 

VC Off Lower F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 11 12 00 F7, 86

VC On Lower F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 11 12 01 F7, 86

the editor wanted the specific byte values mapped so I entered 127 for one of them (“on”) and 0 for the other (“off”). 

[Analogaddict]

@Al Quinn thanks a lot again! I’m succeeding with remapping CC:s but not sysex. I don’t even see the light indicating midi response on the HX3 on some of the messages. Here’s a list of all the commandos I use - I’m clearly missing something. 🤦‍♂️😂

 

 

YC SysEx, EPP CCs

C/V on  F0 43  10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 00 F7

C/V off F0 43  10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 01 F7

Perc on F0 43  10 7F 1C 09 50 10 13 00 F7

Perc off  F0 43  10 7F 1C 09 50 10 13 00 F7

Perc Slow  F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 15 00 F7, 88

Perc Fast     F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 15 01 F7, 88

Perc Normal F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 16 01 F7, 89

Perc Soft     F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 16 00 F7, 89

Perc 2nd     F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 14 01 F7, 90

Perc 3rd     F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 14 00 F7, 90

VC Off Upper F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 00 F7, 84

VC On Upper F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 01 F7, 84

VC Off Lower F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 11 12 00 F7, 86

VC On Lower F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 11 12 01 F7, 86

[Al Quinn]

Sorry you're struggling. As I mentioned I don't have access to my Event Processor Plus programming script because it's on my PC which is many miles away. 

 

Since I have my YC73, HX3 Expander Module, and Event Processor Plus with me I connected them to see if I could learn anything helpful. The YC73 VIBRATO/CHORUS button turns the HX3 Expander Module Vibrator/Chorus on and off (upper and lower). No surprise there. FYI, I don't see a light indicating midi activity on my HX3 Expander Module. Perhaps we have different versions of this product but that shouldn't matter.

 

I connected my laptop with a midi monitor app to capture the midi output of the YC73 when the VIBRATO/CHORUS button (upper) is pressed. Here's a screenshot after turning the VIBRATO/CHORUS on and then off. No surprise there.

[Al Quinn]

I don't have the hardware needed to monitor the midi output of the Event Processor Plus but, since it works, it stands to reason it's sending CC to the HX3 Expander Module (i.e., the Expander Module ignores SysEx messages). If you can share your MS Event Processor script that was created by the programming tool I'll take a look at it. Maybe I'll see something that's not right.

 

[Analogaddict]

Thanks! Here's what I've got going on;

 

F0 00 00 50 29 00 F7

{ Clear All Settings - allow all MIDI events not specified below to pass through unchanged }

 

F0 00 00 50 29 02 00 F7

F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 00 F7

B0 1F 00

{ Setting #1: Map the System Exclusive event F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 00 F7 to Control Change #31 of value 0 on MIDI channel 1. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

F0 00 00 50 29 02 01 F7

F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 01 F7

B0 1F 7F

{ Setting #2: Map the System Exclusive event F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 01 F7 to Control Change #31 of value 127 on MIDI channel 1. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

F0 00 00 50 29 02 02 F7

F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 13 01 F7

B0 42 7F

{ Setting #3: Map the System Exclusive event F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 13 01 F7 to Control Change #66 of value 127 on MIDI channel 1. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

F0 00 00 50 29 02 03 F7

F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 13 00 F7

B0 42 00

{ Setting #4: Map the System Exclusive event F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 13 00 F7 to Control Change #66 of value 0 on MIDI channel 1. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

F0 00 00 50 29 02 04 F7

F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 00 15 F7

B0 58 7F

{ Setting #5: Map the System Exclusive event F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 00 15 F7 to Control Change #88 of value 127 on MIDI channel 1. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

F0 00 00 50 29 02 05 F7

 

F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 15 01 F7

B0 58 7F

{ Setting #6: Map the System Exclusive event F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 15 01 F7 to Control Change #88 of value 127 on MIDI channel 1. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

F0 00 00 50 29 02 06 F7

F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 16 01 F7

B0 59 7F

{ Setting #7: Map the System Exclusive event F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 16 01 F7 to Control Change #89 of value 127 on MIDI channel 1. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

F0 00 00 50 29 02 07 F7

F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 16 00 F7

B0 59 00

{ Setting #8: Map the System Exclusive event F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 16 00 F7 to Control Change #89 of value 0 on MIDI channel 1. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

F0 00 00 50 29 02 08 F7

F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 14 01 F7

B0 5A 7F

{ Setting #9: Map the System Exclusive event F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 14 01 F7 to Control Change #90 of value 127 on MIDI channel 1. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

F0 00 00 50 29 02 09 F7

F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 14 00 F7

B0 5A 00

{ Setting #10: Map the System Exclusive event F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 00 14 00 F7 to Control Change #90 of value 0 on MIDI channel 1. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

[Al Quinn]

2 hours ago, Analogaddict said:

 

F0 00 00 50 29 00 F7

{ Clear All Settings - allow all MIDI events not specified below to pass through unchanged }

 

F0 00 00 50 29 02 00 F7

F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 00 F7

B0 1F 00

{ Setting #1: Map the System Exclusive event F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 00 F7 to Control Change #31 of value 0 on MIDI channel 1. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

I don’t see anything wrong but that doesn’t mean it’s right 😎 I would try to get one command to work first. I skinny’ed down your script to one command. Monitor the midi communications between the YC and EPP — and between the EPP and the HX3 — to see what’s happening (or not happening). Doing this should give clues as to what’s wrong.

 

I found the following  info in my notes. I don’t remember why I thought these setting were needed but they probably worked since they’re in my notes. Sorry I don’t have a great recollection of the details. It was awhile ago.

 

YC Master Keyboard -> Mode SW -> On to enable as master keyboard. Needed to set MIDI Channel to 10

YC Master Keyboard -> Advanced Mode SW -> On to have access to more parameters (i.e., Program Change)

HX3 Midi Channel = 10

 

 

[Analogaddict]

@Al Quinn I’ll try ch 10..! Notes like that are usually there for a reason. Looking in my midi monitor, I can see that the cc for c/v is sent twice when I press the YC switch. It seems value 0=on and 127=off, and somehow my command triggers 0(on) the first time and 0(on) + 127(off) the second time I hit the switch. I’ll try to redo the whole programming from scratch tonight…

 

When I program, is it possible to edit the rendered file from the programmer (for instance change midi channel) or do I need to redo the whole shebang? The editor is on a pc and everything else on a Mac, so I can’t copy/paste…

[Al Quinn]

Yes, I've had success editing the rendered file (although I remember making some silly mistake along the way)

[Al Quinn]

9 hours ago, Analogaddict said:

Looking in my midi monitor, I can see that the cc for c/v is sent twice when I press the YC switch.

 

If you see the cc when c/v is pressed that means your monitor is connected to the output of the EPP, right?

 

Are you using the full script or the skinny'ed down script with one command? The full script can be a bit overwhelming when in troubleshoot mode. Best to get one command working properly and then build from there.

 

The EPP logic should send 127 with the cc of your choice when you turn the c/v on via the YC c/v button; and it should send 0 when you press the YC c/v button again since that will toggle it off. A simple way of checking this is by looking at the YC c/v button's light. In other words, when you press the YC c/v button and the button lights up the YC sends 01 via SysEx and when the YC c/v button is pressed and the YC c/v button goes off the YC sends 00 via SysEx.

 

If using the Skinny'ed down script you should only see the EPP output a 00 with CC 31 when the YC c/v button is pressed and its light goes off. When you press it again there should be no EPP output since the shortened script shouldn't recognize the SysEx message with a data value of 01. I wish I had access to my script so that I could share it with you. That would certainly make things easier.

[Analogaddict]

3 hours ago, Al Quinn said:

 

If you see the cc when c/v is pressed that means your monitor is connected to the output of the EPP, right?

 

Are you using the full script or the skinny'ed down script with one command? The full script can be a bit overwhelming when in troubleshoot mode. Best to get one command working properly and then build from there.

 

The EPP logic should send 127 with the cc of your choice when you turn the c/v on via the YC c/v button; and it should send 0 when you press the YC c/v button again since that will toggle it off. A simple way of checking this is by looking at the YC c/v button's light. In other words, when you press the YC c/v button and the button lights up the YC sends 01 via SysEx and when the YC c/v button is pressed and the YC c/v button goes off the YC sends 00 via SysEx.

 

If using the Skinny'ed down script you should only see the EPP output a 00 with CC 31 when the YC c/v button is pressed and its light goes off. When you press it again there should be no EPP output since the shortened script shouldn't recognize the SysEx message with a data value of 01. I wish I had access to my script so that I could share it with you. That would certainly make things easier.

if I run a skinnyed down script consisting of two sysex strings converted to to cc commands, I get the following in my midi monitor;

 

“F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 01 F7” converted to CC 31 (value 127) gives me CC31 (127). Works as expected. 

 

however,

 

“F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 00 F7” converted to CC31 (value 0) gives me the sysex string. Not conversion from sysex -> CC. I’ve cleared the MEP totally and reloaded five times, the same result. 
 

I don’t understand why it converts one of the strings but not the other. The only difference is in “00” or “01” before F7. 

[Al Quinn]

1 hour ago, Analogaddict said:

“F0 43 10 7F 1C 09 50 10 12 00 F7” converted to CC31 (value 0) gives me the sysex string. Not conversion from sysex -> CC. I’ve cleared the MEP totally and reloaded five times, the same result. 

If you create a script with just the off command does it work?

[Analogaddict]

9 hours ago, Al Quinn said:

If you create a script with just the off command does it work?

Yes, but when I add the on command it doesn’t work, in one try “on” gave me the cc for on - and the sysex for on… 😅

If I clear the MSE totally or bypass it I can see the correct sysex messages coming from the YC.

[Al Quinn]

I can see this happening if your programming script doesn't have incremented setting numbers. If your short script has just two commands -- c/v on and c/v off -- then the commands should be called Setting #1 and Setting #2. I think you already know this since your full script has this correctly implemented (i.e., no duplicate setting numbers).

 

The other thing that could cause this is if you didn't end your settings with "After this setting, continue to process subsequent settings" but since you did this in the long script I assume you did this in the short script. 

 

I'm sorry, but I'm stumped. I'll gladly share my script when I get back to my PC but that won't be until May which, of course, is no help for this week's gig.

 

In the past, I've communicated with a person at Midi Solutions a few times. Perhaps he can help. His name is John Fast and his email address is john@midisolutions.com

[Analogaddict]

1 hour ago, Al Quinn said:

I can see this happening if your programming script doesn't have incremented setting numbers. If your short script has just two commands -- c/v on and c/v off -- then the commands should be called Setting #1 and Setting #2. I think you already know this since your full script has this correctly implemented (i.e., no duplicate setting numbers).

 

The other thing that could cause this is if you didn't end your settings with "After this setting, continue to process subsequent settings" but since you did this in the long script I assume you did this in the short script. 

 

I'm sorry, but I'm stumped. I'll gladly share my script when I get back to my PC but that won't be until May which, of course, is no help for this week's gig.

 

In the past, I've communicated with a person at Midi Solutions a few times. Perhaps he can help. His name is John Fast and his email address is john@midisolutions.com

Thanks! I've emailed him. I'm pretty sure I've found a very unusual way to do something incorrectly.