Nord Stage 4 Announced

[b3plyr]

14 minutes ago, drawback said:

Anyone else hoping they’ve put a TP110 in these?

Yes. I have a TP110 in a Numa X and it is really nice.

[jeffincltnc]

25 minutes ago, drawback said:

Anyone else hoping they’ve put a TP110 in these?

 

No.  I want the Nord Piano 5 73 action, please.

[HammondDave]

Nord… I just don’t get it. Played them… thought they were over-hyped and overpriced.  Has one of the worse Hammond and Leslie engines I have heard. Terrible keyboard feel. Give me a MOJO, a B3x, or a vB3 any day. 
And drawfaders?  Really?

 

But people will gladly spend three times the cost of a MOJO or a MODX on these ugly red things. I don’t get it. 

[analogika]

31 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

Nord… I just don’t get it. Played them… thought they were over-hyped and overpriced.  Has one of the worse Hammond and Leslie engines I have heard. Terrible keyboard feel. Give me a MOJO, a B3x, or a vB3 any day. 
And drawfaders?  Really?

 

But people will gladly spend three times the cost of a MOJO or a MODX on these ugly red things. I don’t get it. 

 

Played what? A Nord Stage? Because the point of that is a usable organ with a usable piano and a flexible synth, good effects, all directly accessible and fully programmable within two minutes. 

 

None of the options you mentioned do these things, so there's no point in comparing them. 

If you're just talking about organ sim — yeah, there's probably a reason why Nord discontinued the proper organ centric model, the C2D, years ago. 

[eric]

3 hours ago, vonnor said:

There goes @eric's budget for the year...

 

LOL - You may be right! I may be crazy! But it just may be a lunatic we're looking for...

 

I am of course VERY interested in learning more about the NS4 and will be checking it out closely at NAMM in April. If it's like the NS3 rollout, I probably would wait a bit until the OS and early bugs are ironed out before updating...which for me was at least a year from NS2 -> NS3. I kept one of my NS2 as well, and still get value from it. If the NS4 has some killer features that outshine the NS3, it's only a matter of time before I get one.

 

The other challenge to consider is the time invested in creating Programs that will likely not be compatible across platforms...I know for sure that I still have old NS2 Programs that I never recreated on the NS3, perhaps songs that were from an earlier era or whatever. It was a very time-consuming process to recreate hundreds of sounds when I went from NS2 -> NS3. I'm not real excited to repeat that for NS3 -> NS4.

 

Exciting news, nonetheless!

[eric]

2 hours ago, jeffinpghpa said:

 

No, I think Eric has gone more towards stability and patience.  First releases can have some hardware issues that aren't found until they are out in the wild and it definitely can take Nord a year to stabilize the software and fix bugs.  I think Eric resists the GAS and waits a year to have it stabilize unless he is selling off an older Stage 2 from the barn.

 

Nailed it!

[UnderGroundGr]

13 hours ago, HammondDave said:

Nord… I just don’t get it. Played them… thought they were over-hyped and overpriced.  Has one of the worse Hammond and Leslie engines I have heard. Terrible keyboard feel. Give me a MOJO, a B3x, or a vB3 any day. 
And drawfaders?  Really?

 

But people will gladly spend three times the cost of a MOJO or a MODX on these ugly red things. I don’t get it. 

I had both stage and electro, i agree with you...

[Al Coda]

17 hours ago, HammondDave said:

But people will gladly spend three times the cost of a MOJO or a MODX on these ugly red things. I don’t get it.

 

 

A.C.

[stoken6]

Full-frontal photo spotted in the wild. (The store is closing for temporarily refurb so obviously posted a bit early!)

 

https://www.sud-claviers.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/KNO-NS4-73.jpg

 

Cheers, Mike

[Spider76]

73-keys hammer action, YAY!

(More info and other detailed pics on the Nord Forum)

 

[analogika]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

Full-frontal photo spotted in the wild. (The store is closing for temporarily refurb so obviously posted a bit early!)

 

https://www.sud-claviers.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/KNO-NS4-73.jpg

 

Cheers, Mike

product page: https://www.sud-claviers.com/produit/nord-stage-4-73/

 

The details are wrong (copied over from Stage 3), but the photographs are new. Nice updates to the synth, and the FX section is totally modular now, including optional global or per-engine settings for comp and reverb. Also, spring reverb and space echo delay! 

[AnotherScott]

24 minutes ago, analogika said:

product page: https://www.sud-claviers.com/produit/nord-stage-4-73/

The Compact is 995 Euros more than their current price on the NS3 Compact, 3449. With current US price at $3499, it would seem like the US price will probably be $4499.

[analogika]

I’m not assuming that price to be final, or actual street price six months from now, at this point. 

[AnotherScott]

It's possible that the 4444 euro price was just a placeholder, if the page wasn't supposed to be public yet. (I see the page is down at the moment.)

[Stokely]

As noted above, the draw for me with the Stage is having a real synth, organ and piano/other sample engine in one machine.   Not many others do, I'd say the Fantom with it's updated organ engine is in that category, as is Kronos but I don't like the CX3.   My Modx with ipad playing B-3X (will be my rig at an outdoor show today) is a ghetto version but the synths are a bit underwhelming.  The Stage also brings way more controls if that matters...it doesn't to me all that much, as I tend to pre-program and use relatively few controls (cutoff being the main one).

If I'm willing to bring two keyboards, as I usually am, the draw becomes much less as I can relegate at least one of the "holy 3" above to the other keyboard.   Then the high prices become too hard for me to stomach.    One keyboard is very nice for risky outdoor shows where I might have to pack up in a huge hurry due to rain, or the occasional multi-band thing where you have a few minutes to set up or tear down (haven't done one of these in a long while).

The Yamaha YC would definitely be a contender for me but they need a synth engine first or at least something as comprehensive as the Modx.  If they were to add the suspected "AN-X" engine to the YC without raising the price much, look out.   As it is, because Yamaha builds in the audio interface, synths from an ipad are a real consideration.

[Sam Mullins]

3 hours ago, Spider76 said:

73-keys hammer action, YAY!

(More info and other detailed pics on the Nord Forum)

 

 

Looks deeper than Stage 3...so I would probably have to buy a new hard case, but I guess that's in the noise money-wise given the likely price.

 

Looks like a lot of new features in the hardware interface.  But I'm guessing I won't be tempted unless there is significantly better sample-player engine (with sound libraries to take advantage of it), i.e. velocity switching of samples to make it competitive with modern ROMplers (MODX, Kronos, Fantom, etc) on instrument emulation.  If that were the case, I could probably do gigs without my Kronos....and less schlep is becoming increasingly appealing at my age.

[Spider76]

24 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

It's possible that the 4444 euro price was just a placeholder, if the page wasn't supposed to be public yet. (I see the page is down at the moment.)

Also, it was for the Stage 4 73, which appears to be the new hammer action model replacing the HP76, probably with the same action of the NP5 73.

If that's the case, like for the NP5 the price will be very close to the 88, and the semi-weighted Compact will hopefully be substantially lower.

[AnotherScott]

 

12 minutes ago, Stokely said:

As noted above, the draw for me with the Stage is having a real synth, organ and piano/other sample engine in one machine.   Not many others do, I'd say the Fantom with it's updated organ engine is in that category, as is Kronos but I don't like the CX3. 

Yeah, for a board with the three different sound generating mechanisms (clonewheel, VA, piano/sample), each board has its limitation. Obviously Nord's unique strength is all the immediate knobby control. But since you're willing to give that up, there are some other options, but again, each has its compromises. The Fantom you mention is heavy, while the lighter Fantom-0 lacks a physical control for the 9th drawbar. Nautilus is missing those sliders entirely. There's the Kurzweil K2700/PC4 though I think most would agree its organ lags the Nord/Fantom/Kronos. Hammond SK Pro only has VA for mono synth sounds (the poly synth sounds are sample based), and its pianos are weak. Roland VR09/VR730, but that has plenty of limitations of its own, including that almost all synth editing has to be done on an external editor, and that if you're splitting/layering sounds you can't give them each their own effects (and I'm not a fan of the piano sound, either). Vox Continental has a more limited version of the CX3 organ you already don't like, and the synth editing functionality is minimal, and it has almost no split capability. Of course, many of these boards do have some real advantages over the Stage as well (besides price).

 

13 minutes ago, Sam Mullins said:

I'm guessing I won't be tempted unless there is significantly better sample-player engine (with sound libraries to take advantage of it), i.e. velocity switching of samples to make it competitive with modern ROMplers (MODX, Kronos, Fantom, etc) on instrument emulation.  If that were the case, I could probably do gigs without my Kronos....and less schlep is becoming increasingly appealing at my age.

You might get close to what you want by just connecting an iPad running something like Korg Module to your NS3's EXT function.

 

14 minutes ago, Spider76 said:

Also, it was for the Stage 4 73, which appears to be the new hammer action model replacing the HP76

Ah, right, I didn't pay attention to whether it was the 73 hammer or the 73 semi-weighted that was that price. I'll guess that IF that model comes out at $4499 U.S., the SW will be $3999. But we'll know soon enough...

[ElmerJFudd]

11 minutes ago, Dave Ferris said:

Also just in : Nord has partnered with the boutique Italian piano manufacturer, Fazioli, to design a limited run of Fazioli /Nord 2 Grand Pianos. The Swedish company's logo will appear on the fallboard.

Although early word leaked says, instead of the logical choice of the XXXL "Italian Grand", there was a mixup in R&D and somehow the Studio Grand, otherwise known as Yamaha, made it to production.

 

Oh my, what a colossal PR mess ! On a personal note, I'll hate to see the pricing at Sweetwater on a soft case for this.

 

So you're saying Nord Grand 2 with Kawai's action and sample sets from several other brands will have a Fazioli logo (who use Renner (Steinway) actions and Klug keyboards)?  That's an interesting development.    

 

[Sam Mullins]

35 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

You might get close to what you want by just connecting an iPad running something like Korg Module to your NS3's EXT function.

 

 

Yeah, I got two iPad's with a bunch of VI's (Module, Ravenscroft, Neo-Soul Keys, B3-x, a bunch of synths) and probably could get along with my Stage 3 and that.  But a few things have kept me from going that route:  a) Got lots of complicated splits for songs between Stage and Kronos (midi'd back to back) and just don't want to do all the reprogramming   b) keyboard redundancy c) stability d) Kronos Set List (which could be replaced any number of ways on iPad of course)

 

Having said all that, I can envision a time when I go the route of one 88 weighted keyboard + iPad....and my CT-S500 in the trunk as a fail-safe.

[CyberGene]

I'm not familiar with the Nord interface and terminology but form the pictures it seems the synth engine can have three separate instances? Like three separate synth voices simultaneously, is that correct? But there are also a lot of potentiometers on the synth panel and I simply can't see how that will work with three simultaneous synth voices on the same panel. Unless I'm missing something. You switch to a voice and you have no idea about current values since the potentiometers stay at the values from the previous instance (or even worse from a previous patch). I guess you can select whether to use jump/match strategy but it's too awkward to switch between the three instances/voices and dealing with the discrepancy all the time, it kind of defeats the purpose of what Nords are about: easy to use and direct interface. Why not use encoders with LED rings?

[analogika]

3 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Why not use encoders with LED rings?

 

Because they're very expensive and take a lot more space. 

 

I agree entirely that endless LED encoders are the best way to go, but — having given up on a number of them in the transition from Stage 2 to Stage 2 — having more knobs is definitely preferable to having fewer options, but with LED rings. 

 

I'm fairly positive from the photos that the new synth section will switch display modes for oscillator setting, envelopes, filter and possibly LFO modes, with the three general pots below the display functioning as variable endless encoders for the different parameters displayed. 

 

So this is a step back up towards real display states. 

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Sam Mullins said:

Having said all that, I can envision a time when I go the route of one 88 weighted keyboard + iPad....and my CT-S500 in the trunk as a fail-safe.

Since you've already got the CT-S500, for gigs where you don't want to deal with the weight of your Kronos, you could also use the NS3 to trigger two sounds within the CT-S500, while playing up to three additional CT-S500 sounds from its own keys (2 above the split point, 1 below). CT-S500 has a cool implementation where you can send patch changes from another board to two of its high MIDI channels (e.g. use your Nord's EXT panels to send patch changes and subsequent playing on channels 15 and 16), while using the Casio's first 3 channels to play its sounds from its own keys. Here's the cool part that differentiates it from Kronos and other boards: When you call up a new Registration (equivalent to a Kronos Combi, for up to 3 sounds), it will not interrupt or change the sound of the channel 15/16 sounds that you are triggering externally. It doesn't address all four of your a-b-c-d reasons you've stuck with the Kronos instead of using an iPad sound source on the Nord, but I think it addresses b and c, and maintains the two board advantage of simply having that many more keys at your disposal instead of having to always fit everything you want to do into 73 keys.

 

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I'm not familiar with the Nord interface and terminology but form the pictures it seems the synth engine can have three separate instances? Like three separate synth voices simultaneously, is that correct? But there are also a lot of potentiometers on the synth panel and I simply can't see how that will work with three simultaneous synth voices on the same panel. Unless I'm missing something. You switch to a voice and you have no idea about current values since the potentiometers stay at the values from the previous instance (or even worse from a previous patch). I guess you can select whether to use jump/match strategy but it's too awkward and kind of defeats the purpose of what Nords are about: easy to use and direct interface. Why not use encoders with LED rings?

Nord hasn't done a full "encoders with LED rings" implementation since the Nord Lead 3. They had a bit of it on the Nord Stage 2 as analogika said, but even that disappeared on the NS3. On the NS3, you're absolutely right about how one set of controls works for multiple instances, though in that case it's two instances (vs. apparently 3 on the NS4). Even though each NS3 program can have two synth sounds, the same controls are indeed toggled to use on the "A" sound or the "B" sound. It's similar to what you saw on the YC73, where the same controls would be used for Keys A and Keys B, where Yamaha does nicely use ringed endless encoders (but of course, far fewer of them). As analogika said, at least with the 3 endless encoders and presumably a wider selection of what items appear in the screen for you to control (compared to what was on the screen of the NS3), there may be more items that display as "in sync" when you go to adjust them on the NS4, though you can't see them all at once.

 

2 hours ago, analogika said:

I'm fairly positive from the photos that the new synth section will switch display modes for oscillator setting, envelopes, filter and possibly LFO modes, with the three general pots below the display functioning as variable endless encoders for the different parameters displayed. 

Definitely envelopes, since there appear to no longer be dedicated physical envelope knobs. Hopefully there's also a filter display option so you don't have to deal with the jump/catch debacle, but I'm not quite as optimistic there because there are also physical knobs for the filters... presumably not endless encoders, but maybe...? (they weren't on the NS3.)

 

This idea of endless encoders under a display that changes what synth parameters those encoder control also makes me think of the Fantom implementation.

[MathOfInsects]

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

I can relegate at least one of the "holy 3" above to the other keyboard.   Then the high prices become too hard for me to stomach.  

When I do this math, I always end up with two boards that together cost as much as or more than this one, without the ability to use either (to the best capability) for a single-board rig. So I end up back at the Stage again.

[Stokely]

Yep, that's the conundrum.   

I owned an Electro 6 for a time and I have a more favorable view of the sounds than some people here, for my rock cover needs at least.  Excellent build quality, compact size and no wall wart   I think the Lead A1 engine would work well for me as well.

If the prices aren't crazy high, I'll consider this one if I can sell a couple keyboards I'm not currently using.  I'd have either the Modx or SK pro over a stage for two keyboard rig, or just the Stage for practices and certain gigs.  That's one "last rig I'll need" idea anyway, and we all know that "last" usually isn't!

[stoken6]

58 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Since you've already got the CT-S500, for gigs where you don't want to deal with the weight of your Kronos, you could also use the NS3 to trigger two sounds within the CT-S500,

USB Host box required. (Casio 🤬)

 

23 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

When I do this math, I always end up with two boards that together cost as much as or more than this one, without the ability to use either (to the best capability) for a single-board rig. So I end up back at the Stage again.

That's the thing that Nord is maddeningly competent at. A Stage is a superb single-rig board, and strong in a two-board setup.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[MAJUSCULE]

Told myself I’d own my Stage 3 for a good 8-10 years… bought it in early 2020. I’ve gotta hold the line, damnit!

 

[Adam Burgess]

I do miss my old Stage2 88 and Kronos 61 rig from about 10 years ago…

Maybe it's time for another Nord. I did love the connection - yes, organ wasn't the best - but I found it easy to play - which makes you sound better!

[SMcD]

1 hour ago, MAJUSCULE said:

Told myself I’d own my Stage 3 for a good 8-10 years… bought it in early 2020. I’ve gotta hold the line, damnit!

 

Forgive my obsession with this topic as of late, but how do you find the piano action on it? Stage 4's got me tempted.

 

Of course, I'm also gonna need to see some more flexibility on splits and layers before I drop the $7K CAD on this beast...

[MAJUSCULE]

I have the Compact, actually, so I don't do too much AP on there. Happens, of course, but any gig requiring AP will usually push me to bring the CP73 (or previously, the FP-4). I find it fine in a pinch, though, and more than adequate for EP stuff.