MIDI Interface/Patchbay required?

[dazzjazz]

Hi,

 

I find running my own home studio a bit of a challenge and I'm sure many others do too. Maybe someone on here has solved this riddle.

 

I would like to have things setup in such a way that I don't need to repatch MIDI cables when a new workflow situation arises. Ideally I should be able to connect any device to any other device if possible, and choose which device is clock master/slave. I'd like to be able to both send MIDI to my DAW but also run things without having to boot my DAW. 

 

Ironically I'm not a big fan of MIDI - I swear at times I can feel the lag in timing.

 

I imagine I need some kind of MIDI patch bay with recall function? I have the following:

 

Moog Matriarch 

ARP Odyssey module (crap MIDI implementation!)

Elektron Model:Samples

Yamaha CP Reface

Yamaha CP4

Roland JX-8P with KIWI Mod

Native Instruments S61 mk2 (probably should be connected via USB to take advantage of its features)

 

I already have the MIDI ports on the back of my Focusrite 8Pre, and a MOTU Fastlane 2x2 Midi interface.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Darren

[johnchop]

Wouldn't the parent/child clocking option be something you'd have to set in each device? 

 

 

 

[dazzjazz]

Yes it would. 

[mcgoo]

I'm not sure how to help you do what you want to do, but I question why you want to do it that way. I think you would simplify life if you let your Audio interface always be the master clock and let the daw take care of the midi routing. A multi port midi interface like the motu micro lite would allow everything to be hooked up so anything could control anything. 

[The Real MC]

Precisely why I have a pair of JLCooper MSB+ in my studio system.  Sad that nothing like the MSB+ is made today.

[ImproKeys]

8 hours ago, dazzjazz said:

 

 

I would like to have things setup in such a way that I don't need to repatch MIDI cables when a new workflow situation arises. Ideally I should be able to connect any device to any other device if possible, and choose which device is clock master/slave. I'd like to be able to both send MIDI to my DAW but also run things without having to boot my DAW. 

 

Two years ago I tried the same. Eventually it was not supporting my workflow. Maybe I didn’t use the right equipment. 
I would recommend to look at iConnectivitys MIDI Interfaces, which can also operate in standalone and allow 5 PIN MIDI as well as USB MIDI. 
I‘d be interested to follow and hear your experiences. 

[Al Coda]

7 hours ago, The Real MC said:

Precisely why I have a pair of JLCooper MSB+ in my studio system.  Sad that nothing like the MSB+ is made today.

 

a JL Cooper Synapse  was also great and a buddy of mine is using it ´til today in his pro studio.

 

I´m still fine w/ my trusty combo of Syco and PMM88E and combine w/ older 8x8 MIDI interfaces ...

But,- in modern times, network MIDI is the solution.

rtpMIDI works well, saves tons of MIDI cables and runs easily across several rooms by using a single network cable.

 

Currently, iConnectivity mio10 is the one and only when using a lot of gear,- but I got notified Alyseum, using CopperLAN before, will come w/ a new interface supporting rtpMIDI this year.

So I´ll wait an see which featureset will be offered.

As good as the iConnectivity hardware is, their editors were buggy always,- and you need for complex setup configuration.

 

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

8 hours ago, mcgoo said:

I think you would simplify life if you let your Audio interface always be the master clock

 

 

only WHEN it is the most stable and most jitter free clock in a system.

"Star type" BNC wordclock distribution from a good masterclock across devices DOES improve audio quality as well as a good MIDIclock generator DOES improve MIDI timing.

But it´s not essential as long the rig is a single audio/MIDI interface, a computer, 1 AD/DA via ADAT (or whatelse) and a (USB-)masterkeyboard.

AND,- in a for audio work non-optimized room, w/ all the reflections from surfaces, windows and walls, it´s almost impossible to hear the difference in quality from your monitor speakers at all.

 

 

A.C.

 

[dazzjazz]

22 hours ago, mcgoo said:

I'm not sure how to help you do what you want to do, but I question why you want to do it that way. I think you would simplify life if you let your Audio interface always be the master clock and let the daw take care of the midi routing. A multi port midi interface like the motu micro lite would allow everything to be hooked up so anything could control anything. 

I don’t always want to have to boot the daw, it would be nice to just run old school, with the matriarch being the master, the model:samples being the slave etc. 

[dazzjazz]

wow, never Hearn of network midi or rpt. Will have to investigate. 

[Al Coda]

3 minutes ago, dazzjazz said:

don’t always want to have to boot the daw, it would be nice to just run old school, with the matriarch being the master, the model:samples being the slave etc. 

 

just a note.

The iConnectivity mioXM and XL offersome preset memory for standalone hardware configuration which are permanently stored then.

Once it´s configurated, it doesn´t have to be connected via USB to a computer all the time.

 

And when being used in the (home-) studio via network, routing edits for DAW work can be done that way with the editor and w/o USB connection too.

 

 

A.C.

[Reezekeys]

If all you need is a quick & easy way to connect various 5-pin midi instruments (i.e. no processing or merging), I would jump on this because these units usually go for over $100 when I looked just now -

 

https://www.musicgoround.com/product/columbus-oh/40012-S000264691/Used-Yamaha-MJC8

 

(They're asking $30 to ship which is high imo, but a quick check shows it to still wind up cheaper than other sources).

 

I had one back in the day – an 8 in/ 8 out midi matrix with 50 memories, I could easily patch all my midi devices in any configuration I needed. More info is here: https://yamahablackboxes.com/collection/yamaha-mjc8-midi-patch-bay/

 

Again, a very simple (and quite old!) piece, I wouldn't pay more than the $80 they want. It might be just what you need.

 

[EDIT - it might be a little complicated to incorporate this with a DAW that uses USB midi, sorry for not catching that. I'll leave the post, as it's a nice piece of history and might even be useful to someone still in the 5-pin world!]

[Adam Burgess]

As above, the iConnectivity stuff really is powerful. The awful software interfaces are slowly improving, but bulletproof once set up. Seeing everything as a huge matrix is a bit daunting but you can send anything to anywhere.

[dazzjazz]

This Kenton patch at looks promising

 

https://kentonuk.com/interchanger/

[Al Coda]

3 hours ago, dazzjazz said:

This Kenton patch at looks promising

 

https://kentonuk.com/interchanger/

 

Wow,- great find !!!

That´s a candidate for me too in future.

Now it depends on price and when it will be available.

 

 

A.C.

[dazzjazz]

8 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

If all you need is a quick & easy way to connect various 5-pin midi instruments (i.e. no processing or merging), I would jump on this because these units usually go for over $100 when I looked just now -

 

https://www.musicgoround.com/product/columbus-oh/40012-S000264691/Used-Yamaha-MJC8

 

(They're asking $30 to ship which is high imo, but a quick check shows it to still wind up cheaper than other sources).

 

I had one back in the day – an 8 in/ 8 out midi matrix with 50 memories, I could easily patch all my midi devices in any configuration I needed. More info is here: https://yamahablackboxes.com/collection/yamaha-mjc8-midi-patch-bay/

 

Again, a very simple (and quite old!) piece, I wouldn't pay more than the $80 they want. It might be just what you need.

 

[EDIT - it might be a little complicated to incorporate this with a DAW that uses USB midi, sorry for not catching that. I'll leave the post, as it's a nice piece of history and might even be useful to someone still in the 5-pin world!]

Wrong voltage for me I’m afraid…

[AnotherScott]

I wonder if the CME U6MIDI Pro  might do what you need.

 

Self-contained hardware routers are mostly relics these days. People have mentioned the JL Cooper stuff... there was also the nice Digital Music MX8 and the Yamaha MEP4.

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Yamaha MEP4

 

That's not a router, it's a "midi event processor." I had one. Sure it can "route", but buying one just for that purpose is like buying a McLaren F1 to drive to the corner grocery store for milk. The MEP4 was part of my live rig for a few years - back in my days carrying multi-space Calzone floating racks to gigs! A very unique piece. You're getting me all nostalgic here.

 

2 hours ago, dazzjazz said:

Wrong voltage for me I’m afraid…

 

Sorry! I spaced. Good luck in your hunt.

[Zalman Stern]

Another vote for iConnectivity. Everything else mentioned here appears to be legacy or in the future. And most do not have ethernet, which is valuable both for network MIDI and for being able to control the switcher from e.g. an iPad or phone on WiFi. Network MIDI is great for working with instruments further away from the DAW, such as in another room. (At least on a Mac, network connections show on in the Audio/MIDI utility and in various app selectors. I can even access then in iOS devices. No extra interface needed.)  I think there's a way to chain mIO switches over the network as well. Caveat here that I have not tried doing anything using lots of MIDI traffic on the network, so not sure what the reliability is in practice.

 

For a big setup, having enough ports on the iConnectivity is greatly eased if some of the instruments/controllers can use USB rather than MIDI 5-pin DIN.

 

There is a generality here in that it feels like "plug everything in to a switch and let software deal with it" should be much simpler, but it only works  wellif there's a fair bit of discipline and one isn't replugging the sources and destinations anyway. (E.g. because they move around or because the switch doesn't have enough ports.) Specifically it's pretty important for things to have good names in the UI. This is better with MIDI as often the switch can get the name from the thing that is plugged in. (As opposed to audio connections where there is no such info.)

 

With MIDI 2.0, I'd expect a resurgence in products in this space, specifically toward dedicated workflows and application specific support. But the price point on the iConnectivity products is pretty reasonable.

 

CME WIDI was also mentioned. This is a big problem solver as well, but I doubt it brings joy with more than a handful of devices at once. More for the hassle of getting things connected than wireless interference. That said, plugging one or more WIDI units into an iConnectivity switcher is a great idea for devices where cabling is going to be a hassle. 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Zalman Stern said:

CME WIDI was also mentioned. This is a big problem solver as well, but I doubt it brings joy with more than a handful of devices at once. More for the hassle of getting things connected than wireless interference. That said, plugging one or more WIDI units into an iConnectivity switcher is a great idea for devices where cabling is going to be a hassle. 

 

The CME device I mentioned is actually not WIDI/wireless, though they have a wireless option for it.

[dazzjazz]

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

the Yamaha MEP4.

Yes. My live rig in 1988 consisted of a KX76 into an MEP4 controlling D550 and Super Jupiter modules!

[dazzjazz]

Yes the https://www.iconnectivity.com/mioxl looks good. Decent price too. 
I really appreciate all the input here - thanks so much. 

[dazzjazz]

Here’s a video about the Kenton product. I’m leaning towards the MioXL at this stage, especially as it’s available now  

 

[dazzjazz]

I just watched a couple of videos on the iConnectivity YouTube channel. Seems like just the ticket. I really wish they hadn’t put the USB connection to the computer (the main connection) on the front - why did they do that?

[Zalman Stern]

I expect the idea is when it is racked, one plugs and unplugs a laptop or some such. For a more permanent setup, use network MIDI.

[stoken6]

14 hours ago, dazzjazz said:

This Kenton patch at looks promising

 

https://kentonuk.com/interchanger/

Holy 80s industrial design, Batman!

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

On 1/12/2023 at 6:29 AM, dazzjazz said:

Yes. My live rig in 1988 consisted of a KX76 into an MEP4 controlling D550 and Super Jupiter modules!

 

I still have an MEP4 in my collection of vintage gear.

[GRollins]

I may have missed something in your list of requirements, but you might want to look for an Edirol UM-880. Hot MIDI switching, 8-in, 8-out, any or all. It's been a life saver for me, because I'm always wanting to use something to run something else. I only have one complaint, but it's small enough that I'll just sit on it. Oh, and they made a smaller one...4-in, 4-out? Don't remember. I went for the 880, though.

 

Motu made (makes?) a MIDI switcher, but you have to program the stupid thing, you can't just make a decision on the fly that you want to try this or that and poke a button.

 

Grey