Man, I miss modules and racks …

[Anderton]

3 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

PS as we all know, any thread that lasts long enough drifts off-topic. My apologies for the tangent.

 

SSS has made an art form of the tangent! Around here, OT means "On Topic," because the topic is whatever it wants to be.

 

However, I'm a little surprised you didn't post this in the existing thread, "Hiring Blind French Piano Players for Doing Gigs at Redneck Bars." There's lots of great advice in there.

[Nowarezman]

50 minutes ago, Anderton said:

 

SSS has made an art form of the tangent! Around here, OT means "On Topic," because the topic is whatever it wants to be.

 

However, I'm a little surprised you didn't post this in the existing thread, "Hiring Blind French Piano Players for Doing Gigs at Redneck Bars." There's lots of great advice in there.

Ha!  The tangents make SSS feel more like sitting around with folks and having a real conversation, rather than a strictly on-topic moderated discussion.  Have to have chemistry and decency, or the loose format can lead to chaos and attract trolls and other low forms of life.  SSS has a pretty good vibe these days.  

 

nat

 

[Anderton]

1 hour ago, Nowarezman said:

Have to have chemistry and decency, or the loose format can lead to chaos and attract trolls and other low forms of life.

 

Paradoxically, the tangents discourage trolls. They're not sure exactly what they're trolling. To do that, they would have to read enough of the thread to decide what it's about, and most trolls just want to do a hit-and-run.

[Nowarezman]

4 hours ago, Anderton said:

 

Paradoxically, the tangents discourage trolls. They're not sure exactly what they're trolling. To do that, they would have to read enough of the thread to decide what it's about, and most trolls just want to do a hit-and-run.

Well dang.  All this time I've been trying to be a troll, indulging in tangents constantly.  Failure at trollism!  I need to find something new to fail at. 

 

nat

 

[KuruPrionz]

6 hours ago, Nowarezman said:

Well dang.  All this time I've been trying to be a troll, indulging in tangents constantly.  Failure at trollism!  I need to find something new to fail at. 

 

nat

 

Fail at failing, you'll be a failure and a success at the same time! 😇

[Anderton]

1 minute ago, KuruPrionz said:

Fail at failing, you'll be a failure and a success at the same time! 😇

 

Whoa. Are you politician, but you haven't told us?

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, Anderton said:

 

Whoa. Are you politician, but you haven't told us?

Life is political, no? 

I vote for voting against and I vote against voting for, and other gibberish. Making sense makes no sense, true?

I could be a preacher too but we're not allowed to discuss politics or religion so I'll just claim idiot savant.

Or left handed, somewhat recovered autistic weirdo. Gimme a guitar, I'll be happy!

[Notes_Norton]

14 hours ago, Nowarezman said:

Well dang.  All this time I've been trying to be a troll, indulging in tangents constantly.  Failure at trollism!  I need to find something new to fail at. 

 

nat

 

Have you tried living under a bridge?

 

That worked for the trolls in my childhood books.

 

7 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

I vote for voting against and I vote against voting for, and other gibberish.

Lately, I find myself voting against more than for. It seems like it has become a matter of guessing which one is the lesser of the two evils.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

 

Perhaps another tangent is in order. Did I ever tell you about the time our drummer fell into a waterfall?

[KuruPrionz]

1 hour ago, Notes_Norton said:

Have you tried living under a bridge?

 

That worked for the trolls in my childhood books.

 

Lately, I find myself voting against more than for. It seems like it has become a matter of guessing which one is the lesser of the two evils.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

 

Perhaps another tangent is in order. Did I ever tell you about the time our drummer fell into a waterfall?

What... er...fall?

[Nowarezman]

4 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

 

Perhaps another tangent is in order. Did I ever tell you about the time our drummer fell into a waterfall?

I'm always up for drummer jokes, better yet, drummer anecdotes.  Or is this simply advice on how to fire your drummer?

 

nat

 

[Anderton]

But if you fire him, the water from the waterfall would extinguish it.

[pinkfloydcramer]

As a LLBCWM (low level blue collar working musician) I still like modules, but only tabletop variety, sitting on top of keyboards that have adequate space for them. I regularly use a Keyboard Partners HX3 organ module that holds its own with any emulation IMO. But the creator is constantly tweaking and improving the source software, with each update dumped into hardware devices..I would think that that blurs the lines, somewhat? 

 

I also have a non-working Nord Electro 2 rack I intend to rehab as it would be a great compliment to a couple of my gigging boards. I used it for 10 years and it was indispensable. They’re going for $800 range on eBay when available, I wonder if that’s all due to aging hardware die-hards such as myself..
 

As I have been gifted an iPad (basic model, not Pro) I’m sure the day is coming soon when I show up at a lounge gig with the typically cramped stage area, with nothing but it and my M-Audio Code 61 controller. I’m thinking the Kong Module may be the best bet to get started, hoping I can resist buying a Roland XV-2020 half rack or some such.
 

Sorry for the tangent! Carry on! 🙂

 

[Greg Mein]

2 hours ago, pinkfloydcramer said:

As I have been gifted an iPad (basic model, not Pro) I’m sure the day is coming soon when I show up at a lounge gig with the typically cramped stage area, with nothing but it and my M-Audio Code 61 controller.

The trouble with iPads, in as far as I'm up to date, is that there is only one connector. I have a couple; a newer one I use regularly at home and a bit older one that has been laying around doing nothing for a couple years. Also going back a ways I have an IKMultimedia MIDI interface and a Line 6 audio interface for these iPads but you can only connect one of them at a time and, of course, the power cable is also excluded then.

 

Maybe things have changed, I dunno?

[Stokely]

I was contemplating a more complicated ipad rig that would have entailed a synth, my Modx and the Ipad as sound sources.  I'd already been using the ipad as an organ "module" for most of a year, because the Modx has a built-in audio interface and separate volume control AND the ability to program zones that use it...makes it really easy and it feels like part of the machine.   The complication was that I had the ipad and two keyboards hooked to a usb hub, allowing either keyboard to control it (and each other!) using an app called Midiflow.

Fast forward and I'm back to two keyboards (one now is an SK pro for organ) and the ipad is not generating sound.  But it could be   Some of the apps sound great.  I'd use it for synth now that organ is covered, but honestly I've been able to program some decent poly sounds on the modx so I haven't gone there.  I like simplicity!

[RABid]

On 1/1/2023 at 10:48 PM, Sundown said:

I really thought about the usefulness of rack-mounted synths.

(Pssst) Hey buddy. Want to see my Eurorack collection? I can hook you up. The first module is free. 😏

[Sundown]

On 1/11/2023 at 4:40 PM, Anderton said:

I was just reminded of something else while returning some OTB hardware to my system: Cables!! MIDI cables, audio, USB...that in itself is kind of a PITA, right?

 

You’ve got me there … Even with my modest studio I probably have a quarter mile of wire (be it audio, MIDI, video signals, etc).

 

Todd

[ProfD]

IMO, multitimbrality and more onboard sounds nailed the coffin of rackmount sound modules/tone generators.

 

128 notes of polyphony, 16 MIDI channels and 1k+ onboard sounds in one KB goes a long way.   

 

Having two or more such KBs and making effective use of splits, zones and layers reduces the need for multiple sound sources. 

 

Nowadays, having several sound modules/tone generators could be cool from a sound design perspective. 

 

The only *problem* I foresee when it comes to sound design using a variety of sound sources ties back to the thread about musically useful sounds. 

 

With sounds, at a certain point we end up with a sh8tload of variations on the same string or some other instrument.😁😎

[Anderton]

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

With sounds, at a certain point we end up with a sh8tload of variations on the same string or some other instrument.😁😎

 

That's not just your opinion, the narrowing of sounds used in popular music (among other issues) was documented in a study by the Spanish National Research Council. 

 

It's like I say at workshops..."Every time you reach for that Minimoog bass preset, you're contributing to the problem."

[David Emm]

3 hours ago, Anderton said:

It's like I say at workshops..."Every time you reach for that Minimoog bass preset, you're contributing to the problem."

 

Not if you can sit on the pitch & mod wheels and play like Bernie Worrell. Remember, most of us thought of keytars as wankeramas until Jan Hammer put real hair on it. 

[Notes_Norton]

I love variations of sounds.

 

I can change the tone of my sax by changing the shape of my oral cavity, how much reed is in my mouth, how much breath support I'm using, and how much force I'm applying. After that I can add some distortion by using what is called a 'hum tone' although it's not humming but letting the vocal folds rattle.

 

I could change it more by changing the mouthpiece. There are variations of what the mouthpiece is made of, how big the tone chamber is, how wide the opening between the reed and the mouthpiece is, and how steep the angle from there to the chamber. But I can't do that on the gig.

 

I have a setup on my sax for wailing blues sound, I can soften it only so much with that mouthpiece. But, I have a synth patch that has the mellow Stan Getz-like sound that will do.

 

Thinking about sax, my two all-time favorite tenor sax players are Stan Getz and Stanley Turrentine. Very diiferent tones. Add more players like Dexter Gordon, Gato Barbieri, John Coltrane, Ben Webster, and others, and  you get a wide variation of what a tenor sax should sound like.

 

For my backing tracks, I have a half dozen sound modules, with probably 30 different sounds from the "Clean Guitar" patch number. I have some that sound like Teles (front or rear pickup), 335s, LPs, Strats, and other variations. I use the one that suits the song that I'm sequencing best.

 

There are some 'pure synth' sounds I play on the windsynth for certain songs, but those are definitely the minority. This is determined by the audience I chose, and the songs they request me to learn.

 

Personally, I think any sound that can be tuned to a pitch can be used musically, if used in the right piece of music.

 

Notes ♫

[ProfD]

There's nothing inherently wrong with variations of sounds.

 

Non-KB playing musicians pick up a collection of instruments and all types of pedals and accessories to alter their sound.

 

However, when it comes to KBs both hardware and software, manufacturers are throwing thousands of sounds in the proverbial box. 

 

Granted, a ROMpler-based KB has become the defacto standard in covering every instrument on the planet and sounds yet to be discovered. 

 

However, when it comes to KBs, there's so many iterations of similar sounds that lead to analysis paralysis in choosing them.

 

Paraphrasing the great music producer Quincy Jones when talking about mixing a record, eventually, having too many sounds becomes the equivalent of painting a 747 with Q-Tips. 

 

Choosing the *right* sound(s) should never impede or interfere with the inspiration of organized noise, er, making music. 😎

[Notes_Norton]

As much as most of us, myself included, strive for the right tone, it's really not that significant. As long as your tone is in the ballpark for the genre of music you are playing, expression is much more important.

 

Take singers. A good voice is essential, right? Then how do you explain the popularity of folks like Dr. John, Stevie Nicks, John Lennon, Blossom Dearie, and so many others? They may not have good voices, but they express themselves fabulously, and that moves the audience.

 

I mentioned sax tone in my last post. They were all jazz giants, and if you played recordings to non-musicians, many would think they are playing different instruments.

 

How about guitars? Who has the best tone? Jeff Beck, Jimi Henrix, Eric Gale, B.B. King, Slash, Kenny Burrell, Jim Hall, Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Emily Remler, Samantha Fish, James Taylor, Bonnie Raitt, Joe Perry, Leslie West, Joe Pass, T-Bone Walker, Orianthi, Johnny Winter, John Pizzarelli, Joe Walsh, Gatemouth Brown, Wes Montgomery, etc.????? And on which guitar???

 

So when I audition 40 different brass sections, or muted guitars, or chorused pianos for a particular song, most of them would have done just fine. But I do it anyway, because I know the difference.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[ProfD]

31 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

As much as most of us, myself included, strive for the right tone, it's really not that significant. As long as your tone is in the ballpark for the genre of music you are playing, expression is much more important.

Bingo. 

 

The tone/sound/feel starts from within the individual.  The instrument or mic is just a vehicle.

 

The one thing every great artist, musician or vocalist has in common is that they have their own sound.

 

The recently departed Wayne Shorter could play any type of saxophone and yet he always sounded like himself.😎

[Notes_Norton]

21 hours ago, ProfD said:

The recently departed Wayne Shorter could play any type of saxophone and yet he always sounded like himself.😎

The great Charlie Parker had a drug problem, so his sax was often in a pawn shop. He would play on loaned horns, and even when he played a plastic sax he sounded like Charlie Parker.

 

But if his tone was like that of Earl Bostic or Paul Desmond, and played the same notes with the same expression, it wouldn't have made a major difference. Plus what we hear today isn't really what Mr. Parker sounded like. The microphones and recording technology of the day were not capable of reproducing the sound of any saxophone or vocalist.

 

What matters most is the notes you choose, the timing/phrasing of those notes, all the ornaments you use on those notes (vibrato, trills, intonation slurs, etc.), the tonal changes on each not, and your dynamics. In other words, how you turn stiff, empty notes into expressive music.

 

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[ProfD]

45 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

What matters most is the notes you choose, the timing/phrasing of those notes, all the ornaments you use on those notes (vibrato, trills, intonation slurs, etc.), the tonal changes on each not, and your dynamics. In other words, how you turn stiff, empty notes into expressive music.

Yessir. We're on the same page (no pun intended).

 

That's essentially what all musicians have to keep in mind especially my fellow KB players while my parsing through those 10,000 presets.🤣😎

[harmonizer]

I get the impression from Charlie Parker's recordings that he was not focused on trying to make a tone that was as beautiful as possible, and that he had the ability to produce a prettier tone at any time, but that he was thinking artistically about something else.

 

It's like Robert Plant (lead vocalist of Led Zeppelin). You wouldn't know he could sing with a nice tone from his Led Zep albums, but he shows one in his duets with Alison Krause.