Any Happy Motion Sound Users Out There?

[b3plyr]

Currently use K10.2s for gigging - mostly piano but some organ. Love them, but want something integrated for my studio that could also be used for small gigs. I was thinking about the Motion Sound KP-610S as stereo is important. Any ideas or experience?  FYI, many years ago (John Fisher days) I did use Motion Sound. Thanks!

[Delaware Dave]

K10's are pretty light.  Not sure why you can't integrate the K10's into your studio and also use for small gigs.  🙄  Guess I'm getting old....

[b3plyr]

34 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

K10's are pretty light.  Not sure why you can't integrate the K10's into your studio and also use for small gigs.  🙄  Guess I'm getting old....

Good point, but I am the one getting old. Studio is 2nd floor, and I have a “fly away” closet in the garage. Just load into my truck and go. Don’t want to move stuff, light as the K10s are, up and down. So I guess I am only looking for the studio.

 

[MathOfInsects]

I have the 610S and am happy with it for live playing. It is loud and clear without being either boxy or shrill, and the balanced outs are handy, though I wish they were "thru" instead of post-channel-volume. Build quality is less impressive than sound quality--almost confusingly so. Would better pots and stems really have added that much to the price??

 

I'm maybe an outlier, in that I like PPAs for "cocktail hour" type set-ups, even if only one, but never like how they blend in band set-ups--too focused and punchy for me, even in stereo. So the MS610S is perfect for what I use it for.

However, if I were looking for something to set up and leave in a studio, and I already owned the K10's, I'd just use those, since they are more versatile all around. That's what I have in mine (PPAs), plus the SpaceStation for times when I want better separation during a rehearsal--like when multiple vocals are involved too.

[ElmerJFudd]

I’m on the hunt for a 610S as well.  It’s for getting a better image than I get from a single PA monitor.  I don’t really want to carry 3 monitors around to have two setups - one in stereo and a bandstand/backup option (although these days in ears would be fine on the bandstand).  Best advice I’ve gotten from Al Quinn is not to bother with the 408S.  It’s not significantly lighter than the 610S and may be underpowered for playing with the band.  Does it sound as good as a pair of RCFs?  Not really.  Does it sound as good as a pair of more affordable options from Alto, EV, JBL, Yamaha?  I believe so.  At least on piano. 
 

Not thrilled to hear they went with lesser pots.  I’ll have to cross that bridge when it comes unless a better option appears. 

[jamesgordon]

I'm using a pair of QSC CP 8 speakers for both piano and organ. At 21 pounds apiece, they're much lighter than the Motion Sound, cheaper, much louder than you probably need in most small venues, and will almost certainly sound as good.  I had the Motion Sound KP-500s for a while.  Worked well for organ and EP, much less well for digital acoustic piano (hated it, actually) and it was, at over 50lbs, really not good for my back.  The CP's were a huge improvement. 

[ElmerJFudd]

16 minutes ago, jamesgordon said:

I'm using a pair of QSC CP 8 speakers for both piano and organ. At 21 pounds apiece, they're much lighter than the Motion Sound, cheaper, much louder than you probably need in most small venues, and will almost certainly sound as good.  I had the Motion Sound KP-500s for a while.  Worked well for organ and EP, much less well for digital acoustic piano (hated it, actually) and it was, at over 50lbs, really not good for my back.  The CP's were a huge improvement. 

A pair of CP8 is about same cost as a 610S (41lbs compared to 2x21lbs). But half the cost of K8.2.  How do you like them on piano?  And in that price range - what did you think of JBL EON, Yamaha DBR, or the cheaper Altos? 
 

I’ve also run pianos through the SSv3.  Also better for organ and EP than piano, in my experience. 

[MathOfInsects]

Yeah, I took the same advice about the 408S; the size and weight difference are negligible compared to the utility benefit of the 610S. Every once in a while I've wondered if I should even have made the same decision about the 12's, but the fact is that I never really lack anything I need from the 10's, so don't know what else I'd get from the 12's. Plus I like how easily the 610S fits in any set-up, and sort of imagine the line will eventually attrite down to this box as their main offering.

Build quality...honestly a surprise. Every outboard option is cheap and flimsy, and even the box itself seems held together by the paint that's on it. I am waiting for the handle to pull the entire top panel off the amp one day. It's not a cheap amp; surely we'd all be Ok popping an extra bit of $ for better skin and bones. 

[MathOfInsects]

16 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

A pair of CP8 is about same cost as a 610S (41lbs compared to 2x21lbs). But half the cost of K8.2.  How do you like them on piano?  And in that price range - what did you think of JBL EON, Yamaha DBR, or the cheaper Altos? 
 

I’ve also run pianos through the SSv3.  Also better for organ and EP than piano, in my experience. 

Plus, in terms of cartage, one of something is easier than two of anything, and the set-up is half the time and half the IEC's/outlet needs and you don't need poles or extra stage space. So the weight is a bit of a red herring. IMO one good-sounding stereo box is generally worth more than two good sounding speakers run in stereo, even if sound is slightly less pristine in isolation.

 

[b3plyr]

This is disheartening to hear about the build quality. Back in the day when I had a Motion Sound that was not an issue. Of course that was a long time ago.

[MathOfInsects]

4 minutes ago, b3plyr said:

This is disheartening to hear about the build quality. Back in the day when I had a Motion Sound that was not an issue. Of course that was a long time ago.

I think it switched around. "Back then" they were solid but unreliable. Now the sound is stellar, but trim is chintzy. 

 

[Reezekeys]

3 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

Plus, in terms of cartage, one of something is easier than two of anything, and the set-up is half the time and half the IEC's/outlet needs and you don't need poles or extra stage space. So the weight is a bit of a red herring. IMO one good-sounding stereo box is generally worth more than two good sounding speakers run in stereo, even if sound is slightly less pristine in isolation.

 

Interesting as I have the exact opposite opinion, different strokes and all that! I'd much rather move two 21 lb speakers than one 41 lb - one in each hand spreads out the weight & strain, and they're likely easier to get out of a trunk too – even if you're doing it twice. Anything to help my back. I agree about the stands and cabling though. Having two speakers also gives one a little more choices with placement. Some gigs I'd have to put my two speakers close together due to a tiny stage, on others I could spread them apart behind me which makes for a nice listening experience with certain kinds of pads and string patches. Can stereo coming out of one box give me that? Maybe someday I'll experience a MS amp and will find out. I do get the convenience factor. BTW I am currently moving two 12 lb speakers - I can carry them both with the pinky of each hand!

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Interesting as I have the exact opposite opinion, different strokes and all that! I'd much rather move two 21 lb speakers than one 41 lb - one in each hand spreads out the weight & strain, and they're likely easier to get out of a trunk too – even if you're doing it twice. Anything to help my back. I agree about the stands and cabling though. Having two speakers also gives one a little more choices with placement. Some gigs I'd have to put my two speakers close together due to a tiny stage, on others I could spread them apart behind me which makes for a nice listening experience with certain kinds of pads and string patches. Can stereo coming out of one box give me that? Maybe someday I'll experience a MS amp and will find out. I do get the convenience factor. BTW I am currently moving two 12 lb speakers - I can carry them both with the pinky of each hand!

Interesting. Partially I think it may be that those who prefer the sound of the twin PPAs don't really see much downside to getting it, even if it means cabling, one more power cable, and stands as part of the cartage. 

Now, flipside: My MS610S is the first object on my cart. My cart has a tilt-back option, which is how I use it for cartage. The handle folds down for storage.

 

I tilt my MS610S when I use it.

So for most gigs, I can wheel the cart in, take everything off it except the MS610, and just park it wherever I want the amp to be. Voila, my amp is set up with the perfect tilt and I never even touched it. That makes its weight...0.0 kg, which in pounds is...I'm bad at this conversion...I think roughly 0.0. 

Since I (outlier) prefer the sound from the amp than to the PPAs for most band gigs, this makes it a no-brainer not to opt instead for two separate boxes (of any weight), two poles, split cabling (mine are snaked now), and an extra power cable, which is often the difference between needing and not needing a strip.

I have a minor obsession with rig economy, obviously...

 

[ABECK]

I have the 612.  Love it.  Sounds great for digital piano, EP, Organ and synth.  It is the closest sound on stage I've gotten to what I hear in my studio monitors.  It's easy to carry (though I wouldn't want any bigger).  I haven't run into any build quality issues yet, so fingers crossed.  It is a trade off I suppose.  I'm sure they could beef up the construction and it would be bullet proof, but would also weigh a ton.  Sub 50 lbs is the most I want to deal with now.  I agree about wishing the outputs were through instead of post channel pot.  Alas, a DI before the input takes care of that.  

[b3plyr]

4 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

 BTW I am currently moving two 12 lb speakers - I can carry them both with the pinky of each hand!

What 12 pound speakers? More info, please.

[Reezekeys]

56 minutes ago, b3plyr said:

What 12 pound speakers? More info, please.

 

Alto TX308. Not in the same league sonically with the QSCs or their equivalents (at $139 each how could they be?), but for many of the local gigs I do they are good enough.

[AnotherScott]

I never played the 610, but I was impressed with the 408, which I put roughly on par with a pair of EV ZXa1, or at least close. But 40 lbs is still more than I want to deal with. MoI's approach makes the best of it, but you still have to get it in and out of your vehicle, and you still have to deal with venues where, even on wheels, it will be a chore (like steps).

[Noah DC]

I barely have to lift my 612 at all, honestly. Except for getting it in or out of my trunk and/or onto the cart, I just roll it from place to place. The weight really isn’t an issue for an amp with wheels that can be easily loaded onto a cart. Sure, one powered speaker is half the weight, but to get all management consulty here, you’re doing twice as many lifting motions, possibly more when setting up the stage for gigs where you don’t have a cart since the speakers don’t have casters like the 612. Much prefer one or two quick lifts per gig then five or six minimum with stage setup. Just my take on this weight trade off question - to each their own. 

[AnotherScott]

53 minutes ago, Noah DC said:

Sure, one powered speaker is half the weight, but to get all management consulty here, you’re doing twice as many lifting motions

 

I think most people would agree they would rather deal with two 40 pound things (speakers or keyboards) than a single 80 pound thing, even just in terms of loading them into a car. But a single 10 pound thing is more convenient than a pair of 5 pound things. Where that 1-vs.-2 piece preference transition happens in-between would vary with things like your age, health (including back), general size/height and arm strength. 

 

Though at least if you have only one heavy item, you can assure that you pack it in the car last, to minimize having to further maneuver it once it's in the car.

[MathOfInsects]

I think the 40 pounds is being overplayed.

 

It’s very, very easy to lift and transport these amps. It is not the same as lifting a keyboard. You start higher and need no leverage or anything. You only need one hand. I suspect our cable bags get close to 40 pounds without us even noticing.

 

The biggest surprise for me was how small and light the amp is, compared to what I’d expected. 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

I think the 40 pounds is being overplayed.

 

It’s very, very easy to lift and transport these amps. It is not the same as lifting a keyboard. You start higher and need no leverage or anything. You only need one hand. I suspect our cable bags get close to 40 pounds without us even noticing.

 

The biggest surprise for me was how small and light the amp is, compared to what I’d expected. 

 

 

There’s a difference between a 40lbs square (amp) and a 40lbs rectangle (keyboard).  
 

Regardless, it’s impossible to meet everyone’s needs in one instrument, amp, product.  Hence the endless new models that favor this or that feature over another.  MotionSound can charge what it does because there are few competitors offering stereo amplification in one box.  They seem to have gotten them as pleasant sounding and light as they can.  It will take another company entering the market with other design ideas to make it lighter, more compact, better sounding, with better quality pots, and pre volume fader balanced outs, etc.  

[Delaware Dave]

35 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

I think the 40 pounds is being overplayed.

 

It’s very, very easy to lift and transport these amps.

 

 

Exactly.  I have a bad back and my 37 pound EV isn't a problem at all.  It's the first thing that I load so I dont even lifted up the whole thing, I lean it against the trunk and pick it up from the bottom using the trunk as a folcrum and slide it in and out of my trunk. Wheel it in and walk it (slide it) into position on the stage. Done.  I'm more frustrated by the number of trips I need to make.  I tried a cart that I borrowed from a friend.  Loading the cart up was frustrating as hell and I actually found it faster to just carry the stuff in rather than load/weight balance and secure the cart.  When  compare it to my hammond/leslie, rhodes, hauling days (needing a trailer) this is a breeze.....

[cphollis]

I am seeing more high-end sound bars in studios these days: less space, lower cost, better sound, etc.  I may give that a shot at some point.

[stoken6]

19 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

I am currently moving two 12 lb speakers

Those are your Alto TX Rob? Are your initial impressions of them still valid?

 

Cheers, Mike

[D. Gauss]

this is confusing.  why do you need live gig pa speakers for your studio?  are you not recording direct? i.e. headphones or your studio mixing monitors should be plenty, and a better experience, no?  

my studio control room is on the 4th floor, so pretty much anything that goes up that horrible climb stays there forever.  i.e. a leslie 147, whurly 206A, 700, etc.

[Reezekeys]

11 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Those are your Alto TX Rob? Are your initial impressions of them still valid?

 

Hard to say since my gigs have all been on the road so I don't use them much. The few gigs I've done with them, I'm generally satisfied while at the same time I miss the clarity and punch of my K8s. The Altos do give me the volume I need for even loud jazz gigs but there's not much headroom left - not unexpected given the specs. For quieter gigs, i.e. solo or duo, cocktail hour, background, etc. they're fine. I'm still experimenting with EQ to try and get them to sound less "plasticky" but I'm afraid that may be a characteristic of many of these low-end speakers that EQ by itself can't fix. If I have a breakthrough there I'll me sure to post about it! 

 

So all in all - they definitely don't sound "expensive." I never expected them to replace my QSCs either. For what they cost, I would consider them a worthwhile investment for certain gigging situations where their extreme light weight and small size would be an advantage.

[Reezekeys]

53 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

this is confusing.  why do you need live gig pa speakers for your studio?

 

On 12/29/2022 at 12:03 PM, b3plyr said:

Currently use K10.2s for gigging - mostly piano but some organ. Love them, but want something integrated for my studio that could also be used for small gigs.

 

Emphasis mine!

[b3plyr]

I kinda explained this in one of my prior posts, but not very well. I do not necessarily need PA speakers in my studio. The speakers I am referring to are for practice with my duo, which does rehearse in the studio without headphones. I do have good monitors, Adam A8Hs (which certainly could suffice for the rehearsal) but regardless am exploring a separate system for rehearsal. I keep all of my gig equipment in a closet in the garage and do not take it upstairs to my studio. In spite of what I said earlier, I will not use anything upstairs for gigs - my bad.

 

I have received a lot of good information - thanks all!

[ElmerJFudd]

28 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

 

Emphasis mine!

Was cost of TX vs TS the most important factor in selection? 

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Was cost of TX vs TS the most important factor in selection?

 

Weight was the primary factor. I couldn't justify buying a second set of speakers without achieving a significant weight reduction from my K8s. I knew in advance I wasn't replacing my Ks and I also knew not to expect as good a sound. I didn't absolutely need a second set of speakers; I just happened to have a little more than usual in the bank that month! $280 for two PPAs was not gonna hurt as much if I wound up a little less than happy with the sound. I admit I've been spoiled by the Ks, there's no doubt about that - but these little guys have already come in handy a few times, and my overall opinion is positive.

 

I did see that the TS308s are 20lbs, 7lbs lighter than K8s. I confess to not experiencing for myself the difference in lifting and moving two 20lb speakers vs two 27lb ones; maybe I would have gone for the TS models. I just have to say, the first time I lifted the TX308 I broke out laughing, it felt so ridiculously light – there's just a weird psychological disconnect when you lift a speaker expecting to put in some effort and it almost levitates into the air with your hand! Brings to mind this piece of a George Carlin bit - 

 

https://youtu.be/J4w_0nkyjnY?t=181