Using MAC and virtual instruments

[CharlieLosGatos]

Hi All

I am looking for some advice on how to use virtual instruments, especially organ, to augment my Nord Piano.  One idea would be to put the computer on the floor, close to my amp, and control everything through midi assignments on the Nord, and possibly run with the laptop closed.  Another idea would be to try to mount the computer over the Nord so I can use the interface on the mac, and I could run the computer output into the aux input.  Since this will be live on gigs I need something reliable and simple that does not require debugging in the middle of a gig.  I tend to use Pianoteq, IK B3, and Ravenscroft and Abelton as DAW.

To get more specific, here are some questions: (1) is running a mac with the lid closed a possibility; (2) is it practical to make midi assignments to the Nord piano which obviously was not intended as a general purpose controller; (3) is it better to run the computer audio to a second input in the amp or into the aux input of the Nord; (4) what else will be a problem that I am not anticipating.

Charlie

[AnotherScott]

Nord Piano does not have good facilities for controlling external sounds.

 

If it were me, I'd check into running Pianoteq/B3X/Ravenscroft in Mainstage instead of Ableton, and then use the Logic Remote iPad app for real-time control from the iPad's touchscreen. But... a pricey solution if you don't already have the iPad.

[LarsHarner2]

Hello, for audio I am using my Presonus Studio 26c I think for routing out to my monitors. I tried closing the lid of my Mac once and then didn't get any sound out of my controller- but perhaps there is a setting to allow that. 

[Reezekeys]

I don't think you can run it with the lid closed but I've been wrong before. I've been using a Mac laptop on gigs for over 15 years. I never need to look at it so it sits behind me in an SKB "Studio Flyer" case with the screen dimmed to black - but not closed. I would never put my computer on the floor, ever. I control everything using the buttons, sliders and pads on my midi controller, which is why I don't need to look at the laptop.

 

As far as running the laptop outputs to your Nord, why not, if it makes it easier or simpler – but does it? More importantly, can you control levels and switch laptop sounds on the computer, or do whatever you need to do, using the available controls on the Nord? You could be going down a rabbit hole of needing to buy more gear for this to work for you. I also think the Mac's headphone output is fine to use, especially if you're routing stereo audio into the Nord.

[Stokely]

I run my 2016 macbook pro closed almost all the time at home, so it's definitely possible.  I can't recall if I changed some setting to make it happen.   I do use a big external monitor to see what I'm doing, I'm not sure how hard it would be to get everything working sight unseen.

This issue (logistics, where to put the computer) is the main reason I don't use it live despite the fact that I have a lot of plugins.  That, and the fact that my hardware keyboards (that I'd have as backup anyway) sound more than good enough--with the one exception being that I use B-3X from an ipad.  The ipad has the big advantage of being able to be velcroed to my keyboard like a second screen.    If the Nord piano has enough space on it, perhaps having the laptop mounted on it (velcro or by some other means) would be possible?

 

Despite everything I said above, I still bought mainstage and have played around with the idea, perhaps having one hardware keyboard and one controller with a laptop.  Again, I start wondering then why not just use two hardware keyboards since I'm bringing them out anyway and talk myself out of it    The big draw for me would be that it would be way easier to program sounds on the big screen instead of dinking around on the keyboard(s).  

Whatever you choose I'd have a backup plan.  For me, if my ipad didn't work I'd use the MODX organs (ugh) and probably play a lot less organ on that gig.

[analogika]

By default, it is NOT possible to run a MacBook with the lid closed unless you have an external display connected. 
 

It goes to sleep when you close it. 
 

However, there is software that will keep it awake. 
 

Not sure I would want it closed while running MainStage or any other sound generator. I need to know I have immediate access to mute and panic controls should anything go wrong. 
 

Also: NEVER EVER PUT YOUR LAPTOP ON THE GROUND. EVER.
Even at home, stand it up against the wall or a couch. Stepped on my Powerbook 25 years ago. Never again. 

[Reezekeys]

11 hours ago, Stokely said:

This issue (logistics, where to put the computer) is the main reason I don't use it live despite the fact that I have a lot of plugins.  That, and the fact that my hardware keyboards (that I'd have as backup anyway) sound more than good enough

 

Yes it does beg the question as to why one might want to deal with the logistics of a laptop rig if your keyboard has the sounds you need. I answer that question easily - use a keyboard with no sounds! 🙂

 

Can I reiterate something I (and others) mentioned? Do not put a bare laptop on the floor! The SKB Studio Flyer is an excellent case I've used for years and I have peace of mind on every gig I do. It's usually on top of a bass amp on my AWB gigs, but on local gigs it's on the floor behind me. I don't carry the laptop around in it - that stays in my backpack going to the gig. However, the case is designed so you can keep the computer in it, if that's what you want. Too bad its price has doubled since I got mine.

 

As far as the lid being closed, I'm struggling to understand why that would be an important consideration, especially given this tidbit I found on a website describing "clamshell mode":

 

When operating in clamshell mode, it’s important to be aware of potential overheating. While open, your Mac dissipates heat through its keyboard and surface area. Closing your Mac while it’s in use prevents this heat from dissipating.

 

I've been doing laptop-only gigs for many years now, with virtually zero issues and no show-stoppers (except one about six years ago where my MOTU audio interface disconnected during a show, forcing a reboot - why I use my headphone output now). One reason I have confidence in my setup is that I try to leave as little to chance as I can, so clamshell mode is a definite no-go for me.

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, Reezekeys said:

 

 

Can I reiterate something I (and others) mentioned? Do not put a bare laptop on the floor!

I agree don't put laptop on the floor and I would not set it on a amp or speaker cab' unless there was some sort of pad or something under it to absorb the vibrations.  I little piece of foam, just something to absorb vibrations if on a speaker cab. 

 

Also agree on the don't use in a clamshell setup open it up to help with air circulation.   I'd do what I do for my practice setup at home and put the laptop on a small stand, part to help with visibility, but also lifting it up helps get air under the laptop to help with cooling.    Laptops generate heat especially in these ultrathin cases they make, yes, even Apples we don't need a stinkin' fan models.   Heat  and excessive vibrations is what I would focus on if me. 

 

Here's the stand I use at home for example of  a small easy to put in a bag and helps get lots of air around my MacBook Air. 

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08JCD8CX7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[EscapeRocks]

3 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Y

 

 

I've been doing laptop-only gigs for many years now, with virtually zero issues and no show-stoppers (except one about six years ago where my MOTU audio interface disconnected during a show, forcing a reboot - why I use my headphone output now). One reason I have confidence in my setup is that I try to leave as little to chance as I can, so clamshell mode is a definite no-go for me.

Hey Reeze,

 Are you using a 3.5mm trs Y cable from the Mac to 2 1/4" TS for L&R?

I've been thinking of doing this for my laptop only shows.  Running the above to my stereo DI, then to FOH

[CharlieLosGatos]

Thanks for all the tips.  I do have an iPad pro.  I was not aware of the iPAD logic app with mainstage so I may check that out.  I also have B3 for the iPAD so I could use the iPad instead of the Mac but I thought it might be more flakey.

The sounds on the Nord are good, but the VI instruments are even better, although truthfully I should spend more time investigate available patches for the Nord as there are so many.  But the main issue is that there is no organ on the Nord piano.  (In hindsight buying the stage would have been smart but so much $$).  If this computer thing works though I was thinking of going all virtual to something like a Studio Logic SL73 and parting with the Nord.
Regarding keeping the Mac closed, that's not critical and not worth investigating further.  The advice about not putting the laptop on the floor was appreciated.

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, EscapeRocks said:

Are you using a 3.5mm trs Y cable from the Mac to 2 1/4" TS for L&R?

I've been thinking of doing this for my laptop only shows.  Running the above to my stereo DI, then to FOH

 

That's exactly what I'm doing. The pass-throughs on the DI go to my little Rolls in-ears mixer.

[Reezekeys]

20 minutes ago, CharlieLosGatos said:

I also have B3 for the iPAD so I could use the iPad instead of the Mac but I thought it might be more flakey.

 

Ironic to me since after 16 years of laptop-only gigs I'm moving to an iPad / iPhone rig!

 

I've been using an old iPad Air 2 on local hits because I'm usually needing to read charts. Every instrument I play is hosted in the iPad as well. Headphone out goes direct to my powered speakers. Keyboard connects through the CCK and the iPad power cube keeps the iPad charged and powers my Roland A800 board. I've also powered both using a 20000 mAh battery bank.

 

For grins I loaded all the software into my old iPhone SE (original 2016 model). It works fine! Obviously not the choice for when chart-reading is required, but otherwise it's insane to think that what I can easily slip into my jeans pocket is now my entire sound source!

 

Of course I don't have years of experience using an i-device on gigs, but so far everything has worked very well – there's probably less to go "flakey" on this than a computer rig. I just have to remember to set it to airplane mode and turn on "do not disturb" before the set starts! 🙂 

[Al Quinn]

5 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Can I reiterate something I (and others) mentioned? Do not put a bare laptop on the floor! The SKB Studio Flyer is an excellent case I've used for years and I have peace of mind on every gig I do. It's usually on top of a bass amp on my AWB gigs, but on local gigs it's on the floor behind me. I don't carry the laptop around in it - that stays in my backpack going to the gig. However, the case is designed so you can keep the computer in it, if that's what you want. Too bad its price has doubled since I got mine.

I have an SKB 2U Studio Flyer case that I’d like to sell but haven’t gotten around to it yet. It’s got a bit of mileage on it but is functionally fine. If the OP (or anyone else) is interested please send me a PM. 

[Iconoclast]

1. If you already have a MAC, you should buy Mainstage. Cheap cheap cheap for what they give you, and I actually love the B3 in Mainstage. It's pretty big and ballsy and has a lot of distortion available just in the pre-amp. $30, so there's really no reason not to.

2. Computer stand/mounting:  There's a lot of cheap ways to take care of this without putting your computer on the ground.

     a. An adjustable firm mounting computer stand on Amazon will not cost you more than $50. (refer to picture) Mine has never been knocked over in a gig. https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Gooseneck-Projector-Detachable-Equipment/dp/B089PZDG2N/ref=sr_1_21?crid=20E9R69KB9AKH&keywords=computer+floor+stand&qid=1668547912&sprefix=computer+floor+stand%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-21

     b. I actually like using a shelf when I have the room. That way you have room for your computer and other controllers or I/O boxes. Very simple to make...piece of wood and black paint. I just liberated a shelf from some old funiture. I frequently just put the shelf on another stand. (refer to picture). I really like this stand for that: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0798TYT75/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

3. I see no problem in having the computer open and near you. If your band is flexing playlists or something, you'll need the Mainstage screen to make sure you're on the right program.  I do almost all program changes through a footswitch so I'm rarely actually touching the computer, just referencing the screen.  Although I have my computer open I'm rarely looking at it and I honestly don't think it does anything except make me look younger.  I know a lot of people hate the look of a computer on stage, but I have mine open front and center at basically every gig and not one person, band-mate, or audience member has ever said anything to me about it.

4. I personally would have Mainstage be the brains of the rig and have it command all the changes. I think it has much more functionality in that respect than the Nord. Conversely, I've found Nords (a Stage 3 in my case) behaves very predictably when commanded by Mainstage.  As far as controllers...just get a Korg nano-Kontrol. It's super cheap and has more knobs and options than you'll ever need.  I actually have about 3-5 USB devices all sending midi and it requires a USB Hub to get all the stuff into my computer BUT I've found that powered USB Hubs are absolutely no problem and have actually made my life much easier.

5.  I run all audio from all sources (including the Nord) to a Steinberg UR44 and then run that audio back through Mainstage, then back out of the UR44 to either my amp/monitor or the board. Gives you a ton of flexibility. That way I can use EQ or post-effects from any of my VST's on any of my audio; and quite honestly I use the Mainstage EQ on channel strips a lot, especially on the Nord's Pianos which all have way too much bottom end for a band. I can also use the headphone out of the UR44 for in-ears, and if I get a feed from the board I can even mix it with the band.  In case the UR44 breaks I always carry a headphone splitter and stereo DI box so that if the UR44 breaks I can run the Nord audio to the board and run Mainstage audio via the Mac's headphone out.

[Iconoclast]

3 hours ago, EscapeRocks said:

Hey Reeze,

 Are you using a 3.5mm trs Y cable from the Mac to 2 1/4" TS for L&R?

I've been thinking of doing this for my laptop only shows.  Running the above to my stereo DI, then to FOH

That is exactly what I do. If I'm doing a Mainstage ONLY show with just my SL88 and laptop.

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast said:

As far as controllers...just get a Korg nano-Kontrol. It's super cheap and has more knobs and options than you'll ever need.

 

+1. This little gadget has more than paid for itself in the years I've used it. I carry it on AWB gigs in case my Roland A800 goes down; in that case I can use any midi controller and still access & control all my sounds & presets. Just one detail - its controls can't send midi program changes! If you switch patches or presets with it, make sure you can do it with CCs.

[EscapeRocks]

4 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

That's exactly what I'm doing. The pass-throughs on the DI go to my little Rolls in-ears mixer.

That is exactly how my setup would be 

Thank you