Tinnitus - The end of the road for me.

[Bif_]

Although I've had tinnutus for 30+ years, it started taking a turn for the worse last year. By June of 2021 I suddenly made the decision to stop playing. (30+ years with a church band as well as other bands off and on).

 

It was a very emotional decision and one that broke my heart. I had thought about what that day would look like, (when I'd no longer play at church), and my vision of that was very different. My musical identity is as real as my identity as a husband, father and employee. My loss was palpable, yet overshadowed by the ringing in my ears. 

 

After visiting with an audiologist (one that happens to specialize in tinnitus) it was determined that I could play safely by using custom-molded in-ears (to assure that there would be minimal external noise bleeding into my ears). I went back to play last October and discovered (before I was done playing that day), that my tinnitus seemed worse, and again, on the day I returned to playing, I immediately knew I could not continue. 

 

My condition has worsened this year, and I went back to my audiologist. She suggested cognitive behavior therapy. Tinnitus Retraining Therapy, as well as using hearing aids. I'm currently managing using TRT and mostly try to focus on other things. During my visit with my audiologist, I asked if there could be a correlation between my condition and the Covid vaccine. Her answer was "I can't scientifically say yes or no, but I can tell you that many of my patients correlate their tinnitus to the Covid vaccines."

 

In addition, I took both the flu vaccine (which I've taken for many, many years without issue) as well as the shingles vaccine. My tinnitus worsened within a day. 

 

I'm not writing this to start any debate about any vaccine, and frankly it will only sadden me if this post goes in that direction. That's not my intention. I consider many on this website to be kindred spirits, because of our love for music, and creating music with our differing skills, equipment and abilities. 

 

I've not really posted here for some time, but continually visit, but this has been tough. I'm not in a bad place emotionally, just don't know how I got here, and finally had the desire to share my situation with my keyboard brethren. 

 

PROTECT YOUR HEARING!! 

 

Thanks for indulging me. 

[Anderton]

I'm so sorry to hear that. I don't what I would do if I had severe tinnitus. 

 

There's no reason for this thread to take a vaccine slant. If anyone wants more information, search on "do vaccines increase the chance of tinnitus." As with so many aspects of covid, definitive answers are elusive (to say the least). There's little point in discussing a topic without having facts to back up opinions. However, I did find that it seems having covid itself, independent of any vaccination, can result in tinnitus.

 

But the public service part of this post addresses the plea above to PROTECT YOUR HEARING! One of the most distressing letters I ever received was from Kerry Livgren (who played with Kansas) after I wrote an editorial about hearing protection. He implored me to keep writing about the topic. Even back in the 60s when I was touring, and we didn't have the hearing protection options available today, I stuffed cotton in my ears. I credit that (and good genes from my father) with saving my hearing. 

 

In the same spirit, KC folks might want to know about some in-ear monitors I recently reviewed from a company called ASI Audio. One of the founders is an audiologist, and it drove him crazy to see musicians using one in-ear monitor but leaving the other one out so they could hear the band and audience. He developed in-ear monitors that include small microphones and an app that mixes their sound in with the IEM. No, MPN does not have affiliate links, and no, I don't get anything from this. Not cheap...but it's a brilliant idea. I use it at concerts and movies so I can dial in the sound level I want.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Hi Bif. If it helps to hear (no pun intended) other's tinitus stories heres mine.

 

Im in my 60s and I cant remember ever hearing silence. Infact i cant imagine what silence is like.

 

My left ear tinitus dominates the surrounding sounds so much it makes my right ear seem quiet although it isnt. Yet the right ear just now did that changing pitch whine thats hard to explain. The tinitus is ever present and sometimes it can start changing pitch in either ear. 

 

As a kid I had low tolerence to loud sounds. At the time it was said blue haired blond eyed people have a disposition to it. Not sure if thats true but it matched. Nevertheless i do know an Aunty suffered severley from it so not sure if its also a genetic thing too.

 

The first band i joined was as the lead singer and the loudness of the music made me wear head phones to cut the noise on our first gig (luckily a friends party so I didnt look too goofy). Obviously that was the last time i wore headphones because of the goofiness (there was no supposed headphone cred that DJs get now in those days). Through out my band life i always wished for low volumes. Tried various ear plugs too.

 

The left ear predominates in loudness after a cymbal went off in that ear in one rehersal 30 years ago so i can hear more wringing in left ear that masks the ringing in right ear.

 

Had a test recently and my hearing is shot totally. I cant decipher peoples words easily although i can hear them talking but its often garbled or muffled. Reflective walls make deciphering impossible). On TV womans voices are lost though i can understand deeper mens voices. I tend to read lips and incline my better right ear towards a person. The ringing adds to the dilemma.

 

If it helps ive lived with this ringing all my life. Its shit but you do cope. I read that you've suffered tinnitus for 30 years already so its not new to you but obviously louder now.

 

I can say mine is very loud but if you dont think about it you can cope with the ringing. As Im talking about it now the ringing is very loud as if you are in a bee hive but a constant loud buzz that doesnt dopler as a bee flies past.

 

Its acknowledging it that brings it to the forefront where you think you cant cope. I have lots of hobbies that help focus my mind on other things.

 

Seriously my ringing is massive but Its copeable if you can let life surround you rather than the buzz/ringing overtake you

 

Whats the buzz tell me whats a happening.

[Stokely]

I'm very sorry to hear this. 

A good friend of mine got blasted while at church while he was doing something with the sound system, he had headphones on.  His hearing will never be what it was.  Indeed, protect it.

I play mostly for fun and "folding cash" but I would have quit 8 years ago after one particular gig...we used wedges but the issue was an acoustic drum set not far from me, four super loud crashes at the end of one song and I felt and heard my eardrums distort.  I decided to go in-ears after that gig, or quit, and they have kept me going.  No ear ringing after shows for 8 years.   There are definitely cons to in-ears but for me they kept me gigging.  Whatever system I use needs to have a limiter in it, I probably should invest in a better one (maybe), not sure how good the ones in my two wired headphone amps are.   

[bill5]

Sorry to hear it also. It's hard for anyone, but when music is such a huge part of your life... 

 

I have it and it is obnoxious at times, but I don't think I could call it "severe." And no, I never was much into playing music at crazy loud levels. 

[stillearning]

I’m sorry to hear all these stories and can commiserate. I’m 68, and have had tinnitus in both ears for about 20 years. I remember the night it happened down to the moment. Concert style band and we were playing a medium sized venue with a quality house PA and sound crew. We did a sound check and all levels were set.
 

Halfway through the night in the middle of a song, the bass player looked at his amp and saw that he had set his gain much lower than he usually had it, and cranked it. (Good bass player, but not all his noodles were buttered). Immediate and deafening HONK from all the wedges and side fills. Instantaneous and permanent tinnitus. Been to doctors, nothing they can do. I use in ears with a limiter now. I usually have to fall asleep with some kind of noise in the bedroom… TV, fan, pink noise… really most anything, just so it’s not completely quiet.

 

I’m retired, but teach 1 night a week at the local School of Rock, and I talk to the kids and their parents about tinnitus. We require ear protection during all rehearsals and shows.

[analogika]

African Head Charge concert, Schwimmbad Club, Heidelberg, 1993. 

 

The sound guy used the *digital* delays with feedback like they were tape echoes, and by the end of the night, my ears had locked up. A (luckily slight) tinnitus remains to this day. 

Amazingly, twenty-five years later, I bought a batch of gear off a friend that included a Korg SDD-3000 digital rack delay. Being a bit of a delay fiend, I immediately hooked it up and sent it feedback to see how it would react. 

 

My hearing immediately locked up. As in, lock and key, blocking everything else out completely. I've never experienced anything like it in thirty years, with various delays, analog or digital. 

I'm convinced that exact model is responsible for the damage.

I returned it. 

Oh, and I've been carrying custom-molded hearing protection wherever I go for the past 25 years.  

[Jose EB5AGV]

@Bif_many thanks for sharing your experience and for your advice. I began to notice some slight tinnitus about three years ago. And now, since I joined my band in March 2022, on the rehearsals, I sit just side by side of the drummer... And, boy, he plays loud 😠! (I tell him all days to play softer... But it lasts just some minutes)

 

So I bought last week a set of ear protectors and this thread reminds me I need to wear them ALWAYS, at each rehearsal and concert.

 

Thanks!

 

Jose

[Delaware Dave]

I've been using (and fighting) hear protection on the stage for well over twenty years. At the end of the day it did not help, my right ear is pretty shot and the left ear is starting.  DAMN GUITAR PLAYERS !!!

[CyberGene]

We were invited to a kid’s birthday a week ago. Went there with my kid, was at a small closed space and a stage that’s used for rehearsals of bands too and as part of the party musicians demonstrated to kids their instruments. The drummer hit them so loud my head almost exploded and my kid instantly covered her ears with palms. And we were not even that close. The guy just kept banging these f****g drums like it was his last day on earth, so I grabbed the kid and we got the f*** out of there in anger. Just remembering this makes my blood boil again 🤬 What the hell is wrong with drummers?! These were kids, he was playing solo and still banged them to deafening levels. Poor kids that were left there…

[surfergirl]

I've used hearing protection almost my entire life. I use 3 different types. I use Fender 27db for music, foamy's about 35db for work and Surfears for surfing. The Surfears only block the wind and water, not sound. 

[KuruPrionz]

I have some tinnitus, it's my own fault for playing in loud bands, often without hearing protection. 

I resigned from a band last year, I loved playing the music and the other band members remain good friends. It was a great situation but I could not continue to damage my hearing. 

The difficult part for me is that I sing harmony and some lead vocals and any sort of ear protection short of the headphones that sportsmen use to fire high powered rifles will begin working their way out of my ears when my jaw moves. It's just the way the parts of my head interact. 

 

I will not quit playing music. I'm working on a solo acoustic guitar presentation, have a gig in November to provide motivation. I have my own Fishman Loudbox Performer which is both a small PA and an acoustic guitar amp. I plan on using that, playing smaller places, keeping the volume down and continuing. 

 

I'm also busy recording all of my original material. My studio monitors run at low volume and one can mix that way if they adjust and learn. I NEVER turn them up loud. 

That's been my response or "solution" to the problem, I hope you find yours!!!!! 😇

[Bill H.]

Appropriate that this topic came up now,  because just yesterday I bowed out of a DJ room where I had been their Saturday DJ for a few months. My tinnitus is bad enough as it is, but this room was really setting it off. These kids (I call them kids but they're in their mid-20s) anyway a couple of them took out a cheap lease on a closed Wendy's that had been abandoned for years, and turned it into a late night club for young adults. So you guys can imagine how small it is in there, and because they're young they want their levels up. 

 

It's on a busy street with several large apartment complexes within a block or two - probably the reason Wendy's originally built it there. By midnight you could hardly move - another issue. So I'm out. Time for a younger DJ to take this one. 

[Anderton]

6 hours ago, EB5AGV said:

So I bought last week a set of ear protectors and this thread reminds me I need to wear them ALWAYS, at each rehearsal and concert.

 

Wear them when subject to any impulse noise, like hammering. I always have ear plugs available when walking in cities. You never know when construction will be just around the corner.

 

Airplane noise also affects your hearing. I never mix or master within 24-48 hours after getting off a plane, otherwise I don't have the right balance of highs.

 

HOWEVER (very important!!) on airplanes, do not wear earplugs that seal the ear!

 

If there's a substantial drop in air cabin pressure, you can damage your ears permanently. I usually just take one of those little cocktail napkins they give you, tear off a piece, wad it into a ball, and put it in my ear. It provides significant attenuation, but the seal isn't so tight that there can be an air pressure differential between your ear and the cabin pressure.

[Sean M. H.]

This thread saddens me--but it's awesome that you guys are sharing your experiences and spreading the word to help prevent the next generation of musicians (of which I would guess I'm a part of, relative to some of you guys age-wise) from going through the same things...yeoman's work

[o0Ampy0o]

8 hours ago, analogika said:

The sound guy used the *digital* delays with feedback like they were tape echoes……

Amazingly, twenty-five years later, I bought a batch of gear off a friend that included a Korg SDD-3000 digital rack delay. Being a bit of a delay fiend, I immediately hooked it up and sent it feedback to see how it would react. 

 

My hearing immediately locked up. As in, lock and key, blocking everything else out completely. I've never experienced anything like it in thirty years, with various delays, analog or digital. 

I'm convinced that exact model is responsible for the damage.

How loud did you have the gear when you tested this setup 25 years later? Just wondering whether your body and mind were remembering the original experience even at a low volume and were saying, “We remember that assault and we are ready to shut this threat down more than ever!”

[RABid]

I've had it for years. Too much loud music when I was young. Not overwhelming, but there. It comes and goes and I finally realized that allergies makes it worse. 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

My last 2 bands i was in which the 2nd band was a reincarnation of the first is a good point of reference to knowing its the players fault. Often an individual.

 

First band when I moved down here was your run of the mill 50s rock and roll dance band. In this band i wore ear plugs due to the lead singer/guitarist being a technical "duh".

 

He had no idea how to use technical things like his own guitar amp combo or his own PA.

 

Ironically i sorted his PA out on second gig after I mentioned to bass guitarist how badly setup it was. The band whos vocals now sounded good loved me. But how does the owner who is the singer not know how to setup a simple Yamaha combo PA amp to make his own voice sound good?

 

Similar as lead giutarist how could he not know how to setup his guitar sound? He wasnt necessarily loud but his guitar was so shrill it cut through our ears like a "fart thru a pair of Levis." Thus being loud too.

 

He left due to family reasons and we reformed the band into a new combo that was less focussed on rock and roll with a new guitarist who was well rounded in more styles and knew how to get around his sounds and gear. I never needed to wear ear plugs again with him and practise was now not ear piercing.

 

The first guy was not the usual boys I gotta play loud because I gotta get my guitar tone just right but a " boys this is my guitar tone I dont know what Im doing but Im doing it".

 

He's sound cut deep into my head ripping out stereocilia in clumps akin to my aging balding head. So it was a pleasure to get a new guitarist who knew what he was doing and had no need for volume.

[o0Ampy0o]

7 hours ago, CyberGene said:

We were invited to a kid’s birthday a week ago. Went there with my kid, was at a small closed space and a stage that’s used for rehearsals of bands too and as part of the party musicians demonstrated to kids their instruments. The drummer hit them so loud my head almost exploded and my kid instantly covered her ears with palms. And we were not even that close. The guy just kept banging these f****g drums like it was his last day on earth, so I grabbed the kid and we got the f*** out of there in anger. Just remembering this makes my blood boil again 🤬 What the hell is wrong with drummers?! These were kids, he was playing solo and still banged them to deafening levels. Poor kids that were left there…

The hosting parents and that drummer should have tinnitus from being “informed” of their poor judgement. 

[bill5]

13 hours ago, CyberGene said:

We were invited to a kid’s birthday a week ago. Went there with my kid, was at a small closed space and a stage that’s used for rehearsals of bands too and as part of the party musicians demonstrated to kids their instruments. The drummer hit them so loud my head almost exploded and my kid instantly covered her ears with palms. And we were not even that close. The guy just kept banging these f****g drums like it was his last day on earth, so I grabbed the kid and we got the f*** out of there in anger. Just remembering this makes my blood boil again 🤬 What the hell is wrong with drummers?! These were kids, he was playing solo and still banged them to deafening levels. Poor kids that were left there…

What I want to know is what the hell is wrong with the other parents? Oh I forgot for many parents now, it's "anything goes"   :gag:   These are the same parents who think it's OK to let their kids scream like their arm is being ripped out no matter where they are. Classy. 

 

[xKnuckles]

Sorry to hear about your tinnitus Bif.  I am a fellow sufferer - although doubtless mine is much milder than yours. I got it about 20 years ago whilst gigging: one night the PA made a horrible loud bang noise in the middle of a gig (I did not own earplugs at the time...) and I have had it ever since.

I have often wondered if there were a mental as well as a physical aspect to people's experience of tinnitus...or indeed traffic, trains, & chickens. Allow me to explain: Consider somebody who moves to live near a busy road. They may not like the traffic noise, and may find it a huge problen to begin with, but generally they will eventually get used to it and then be able to go about their life and sleep etc. without additional problems. Likewise, if somebody moves to live near a railway with trains running all night, they will probably find themselves awakened several times a night to begin with, but at some point they will learn to sleep through the train noise and may even grow to like it.

But what about roosters which crow throughout a large part of the night - as they do near my house from about 2 till dawn... I have witnessed new people moving into the neighborhood and then nearly going crazy complaining about the crowing .....

I think the crucial difference between traffic, trains and roosters may not be the volume or type of noise heard, but in the individual's reaction to the noise. Particularly, his perception of whether its occurrence is inevitable (like traffic and trains) or optional  (like chickens). Unlike my new neighbour, when I first encountered this late night serenade I rejoiced that I was living in the countryside and accepted it as an integral part of rural life. Yes they did disturb me to begin with, but I did not lie awake hating them and their owners and devising ways to try to get rid of them. I simply accepted them in the same way that I had previously accepted trains & traffic.

When I got my tinnitus I was relatively young and very aware that it could potentially drive me crazy. So I made a conscious decision to totally accept it - in exactly the same way that we all accept traffic noise without question or complaint. It would be my new normal; the background audio to my life. I never attempt to drown it out etc. as it has become a part of me. I don't mind it or wish it away. (Although, like many others here...I took immediate steps to make sure it never happens again and have worn custom ear plugs ever since in all loud settings....Including concerts which I have attended.)

Obviously I have no experience other than my own, but it does seem to me that there are many annoying noises which we all accept as part of modern living - and many if them are very loud. They only become a problem if we fight to get rid if them (which of course we cant). As long as we accept them and their right to be there then they will not cause us any distress (although they may disturb us from time to time).

I wonder if part of the pain of tinnitus might be caused by a lack of acceptance of it: a feeling that it should not be there and an ongoing resentment of it which is triggered every time it is noticed. (And I am only thinking out loud here..as I only know my own experiences). When I 'hear' my tinnitus....which is quite frequently as it is incessant, I feel no resentment, annoyance or anything else. It could be a brook gurgling away or a TV in the next room. It raises no emotion or thoughts whatsoever. I simply accept it.

I would be interested to hear how others feel about their tinnitus and whether they also accept it, as I do and therefore find it to not be a problem.

[johnchop]

I sort of know what you mean. Mine is pretty high frequency and varies in intensity depending on how tired or congested I am. (Can’t really hear above 10.5K these days.) Growing up in the American South, I’m used to cicadas, frogs, and other critters providing background noise, so it’s sort of like that. If I find myself paying attention to it, I just distract myself with something.

Whoever figures out a treatment or cure deserves the Nobel in medicine.

 

 

 

[Synthaholic]

Just as an aside, I got my flu shot a month ago and asked about getting the Covid booster and shingles vaccine and my doctor told me to space them out, and not to get the shingles for at least a month. Take that for what it's worth.

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, Dave Ferris said:

What worked best though was finally being in the position to give the huge middle finger to any gigs that placed me in those situations.

True dat.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[UnderGroundGr]

I have this problem for almost 20 years...

[re Pete]

Funny how much time we spend learning the instrument, but I wish the times that volume got nasty I paid more respect to my ears. 

Luckily I recovered after 2 yrs from a big band gig with a drummer tiered over my head near his crash cymbal. I learned my lesson never to play with just one foam plug so I could hear the band better. 

The other was with a blues band that rehearsed in a cement basement. Drums, guitar and bass just cranked it up to ear throbbing nonsense. 

These were adults just letting off steam. Beware. No wonder I'm between bands and don't really care to look. 

Solo or small group jazz for the moment.

[AnotherScott]

On 10/21/2022 at 8:55 PM, Anderton said:

KC folks might want to know about some in-ear monitors I recently reviewed from a company called ASI Audio. One of the founders is an audiologist, and it drove him crazy to see musicians using one in-ear monitor but leaving the other one out so they could hear the band and audience. He developed in-ear monitors that include small microphones and an app that mixes their sound in with the IEM. No, MPN does not have affiliate links, and no, I don't get anything from this. Not cheap...but it's a brilliant idea. I use it at concerts and movies so I can dial in the sound level I want.

 

At first I thought this wouldn't be for me, because I don't use IEM. But your last sentence re-raised my eyebrow. At a concert/movie, there is no direct feed of any sound (no IEM functionality)... so then you are strictly using these things to modulate how much or how little of the outside world reaches your ear, right? So is there any reason that wouldn't be a perfectly viable improvement over standard earplugs even if used only to allow you to reduce how much stage volume you're hearing? If you don't need the IEM function (you're not going to feed an external source into the earplugs), is there a less pricey alternative to this, that still maintains high quality sound from the outside world, but lets you dial in how much or how little of it you want?

[HammondDave]

I have had it for many years… things to do.  Molded ear protection is great. Get ye to an audiologist now!  Also, cut down on the caffein and stress… both will make your tinnitus worse.  

[o0Ampy0o]

On 10/23/2022 at 4:28 PM, xTra Scary Knuckles said:

Sorry to hear about your tinnitus Bif.  I am a fellow sufferer - although doubtless mine is much milder than yours. I got it about 20 years ago whilst gigging: one night the PA made a horrible loud bang noise in the middle of a gig (I did not own earplugs at the time...) and I have had it ever since.

I have often wondered if there were a mental as well as a physical aspect to people's experience of tinnitus...or indeed traffic, trains, & chickens. Allow me to explain: Consider somebody who moves to live near a busy road. They may not like the traffic noise, and may find it a huge problen to begin with, but generally they will eventually get used to it and then be able to go about their life and sleep etc. without additional problems. Likewise, if somebody moves to live near a railway with trains running all night, they will probably find themselves awakened several times a night to begin with, but at some point they will learn to sleep through the train noise and may even grow to like it.

But what about roosters which crow throughout a large part of the night - as they do near my house from about 2 till dawn... I have witnessed new people moving into the neighborhood and then nearly going crazy complaining about the crowing .....

I think the crucial difference between traffic, trains and roosters may not be the volume or type of noise heard, but in the individual's reaction to the noise. Particularly, his perception of whether its occurrence is inevitable (like traffic and trains) or optional  (like chickens). Unlike my new neighbour, when I first encountered this late night serenade I rejoiced that I was living in the countryside and accepted it as an integral part of rural life. Yes they did disturb me to begin with, but I did not lie awake hating them and their owners and devising ways to try to get rid of them. I simply accepted them in the same way that I had previously accepted trains & traffic.

When I got my tinnitus I was relatively young and very aware that it could potentially drive me crazy. So I made a conscious decision to totally accept it - in exactly the same way that we all accept traffic noise without question or complaint. It would be my new normal; the background audio to my life. I never attempt to drown it out etc. as it has become a part of me. I don't mind it or wish it away. (Although, like many others here...I took immediate steps to make sure it never happens again and have worn custom ear plugs ever since in all loud settings....Including concerts which I have attended.)

Obviously I have no experience other than my own, but it does seem to me that there are many annoying noises which we all accept as part of modern living - and many if them are very loud. They only become a problem if we fight to get rid if them (which of course we cant). As long as we accept them and their right to be there then they will not cause us any distress (although they may disturb us from time to time).

I wonder if part of the pain of tinnitus might be caused by a lack of acceptance of it: a feeling that it should not be there and an ongoing resentment of it which is triggered every time it is noticed. (And I am only thinking out loud here..as I only know my own experiences). When I 'hear' my tinnitus....which is quite frequently as it is incessant, I feel no resentment, annoyance or anything else. It could be a brook gurgling away or a TV in the next room. It raises no emotion or thoughts whatsoever. I simply accept it.

I would be interested to hear how others feel about their tinnitus and whether they also accept it, as I do and therefore find it to not be a problem.

POW 101: resistance, acceptance and compartmentalizing, being able to control how you perceive your environment is crucial to surviving torture and living with all of the unknowns and uncontrollables of being a prisoner of an enemy. 

[stoken6]

14 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

your last sentence re-raised my eyebrow. At a concert/movie, there is no direct feed of any sound (no IEM functionality)... so then you are strictly using these things to modulate how much or how little of the outside world reaches your ear, right? So is there any reason that wouldn't be a perfectly viable improvement over standard earplugs even if used only to allow you to reduce how much stage volume you're hearing? If you don't need the IEM function (you're not going to feed an external source into the earplugs), is there a less pricey alternative to this, that still maintains high quality sound from the outside world, but lets you dial in how much or how little of it you want?

Great question. I suspect there would be little/no cost saving in eliminating the "feed an external source" functionality. You still need the buds, the drivers, the amplifier circuitry, the casing/support structure etc that all IEMs need. You potentially save on a cable+connector, and a tiny bit of mixing circuitry. 

 

Cheers, Mike