Covers in a key other than original

[BluMunk]

I have an audition coming up for which I've got to prepare Video Killed the Radio Star, but they do it a 1/2 step up.

My question- in band situations like this do you all prefer to learn songs in new keys, or do you learn it in the original and then set your song/combi/whatever to the new key?

[drawback]

I’d learn their songs in their keys. You may be doing future dates on a house Hammond, for example.

[KuruPrionz]

I'd chart it and play it in their key. 

Bear in mind that if you get into the band you will want to learn who knows what as quickly as possible. 

There are plenty of players who can't tell you much about how a song goes, I resigned from a band last year because they hired a saxophone player who does not know the names of any notes, what a 1-4-5 is and worst of all - does not know when NOT to play. 

 

It's common that a song will be simplified somewhat in service of getting it up and running sooner so don't be surprised if "their version" doesn't have all the changes that are in the original. Go with what they play, not how the song goes. 

 

Often (not always), it will be the bassist that actually knows what the "notes" are in the song but they may not know or care if those chords are major, minor, 7th or whatever. 

I had a pickup gig on bass once and the bandleader asked me "Do you know the Achey Breaky?" I said "Its a 1-5 in A major, right?" and he said "We don't know what you mean when you say stuff like that." I said, "Start it.". It was a 1-5 in A. 

 

Unless you know the level of knowledge of the band members, it could be difficult at first. If they can lock a groove and the singer sounds good then it doesn't really matter as long as you know what you are dealing with. 

[JamPro]

Typically, I will learn a new pop song in the original key, so I can play along with the tape/video/file as I learn.  Once learned, I then work on playing it in the band key.

 

I myself avoid the transpose key, because I routinely fail to reset the transpose function at the end of the song, causing lots of strange looks and some hilarity when I start playing the next number.

[Montunoman 2]

Another vote for learning in the band's key - and this is coming from someone who uses the transpose button/registration A LOT, but I'm trying to stop! 

 

What if you get the band gets hired for a house party, and the host wants an acoustic set using the families be beloved Steinway or whatever.  This may seem unlikely but it has happened to me and it could happen to you! 

[timwat]

15 minutes ago, JamPro said:

Typically, I will learn a new pop song in the original key, so I can play along with the tape/video/file as I learn.  Once learned, I then work on playing it in the band key.

 

+1. Over the years I think I've tried every permutation, and in the spirit of learning from my mistakes:

 

1) Learn song in original recorded key (typically on simple piano or rhodes)

2) Decide division of labor (parts, signature riffs, leads, etc.)

3) Chart into iRealPro

4) Transpose into band's different key in iRealPro

5) Learn the tune in this key, on my gig rig, making any division of labor adjustments if necessary

 

Some of you may be thinking something like, "Why go through all this work? I hate that song and will never play it again. And they're not paying me to...."

 

What I've found over the years is the weird song I hate will come back in a year or so to chomp on my butt. And no one but that strange band from 2 years ago wants to play it in that other key - they want to play it in original recorded. So learning it ONCE and committing it to transposable notation (IRealPro) means I never have to learn that song I hate from scratch...I just have to refresh my memory. 

 

Which, to be honest, is one reason I'm not playing cover tunes anymore if I have anything to say about it.

[Docbop]

Learn in the band's key it will be good for the audition and good for you in general.     Write it out in Nashville style  makes working with singers so much easier. 

[time4jazz]

I do pretty much what others said, play it in their key. The only exceptions are songs that have involved signature parts that I don’t feel like learning in different keys, or songs that are just too awkward to play keyboards in their key. 

[Shamanzarek]

A band I play with did "Tenth Avenue Freeze Out" in the original key of F last week. Yesterday I was notified they are doing it in Eb tonight. This wasn't too difficult to transpose but I will probably have to simplify it a bit. The one song I hate doing is "Oh What a Night". This song is played in C in live versions but on the recording it was apparently sped up so it appears to be in C# which is an inconvenient key for a keyboard based song like this. Two bands I play this song with insist on doing it in C#. In this case I use the transpose button.

[timwat]

17 minutes ago, Shamanzarek said:

A band I play with did "Tenth Avenue Freeze Out" in the original key of F last week. Yesterday I was notified they are doing it in Eb tonight. This wasn't too difficult to transpose but I will probably have to simplify it a bit. The one song I hate doing is "Oh What a Night". This song is played in C in live versions but on the recording it was apparently sped up so it appears to be in C# which is an inconvenient key for a keyboard based song like this. Two bands I play this song with insist on doing it in C#. In this case I use the transpose button.

 

I've made December 1963 (Oh What A Night) much simpler, by learning it first in Db.

 

Seriously though, that's the only key I've ever been called to play that in.

[Stokely]

I learn it in the new key, though for a "whole band tunes down a half step" as my band does, I transpose my keyboards down.  

[octa]

for "Superstition" I'd transpose kb and keep it on the black keys. But, most everything else I'd learn in whatever key band is doing. 

[Bill H.]

2 hours ago, BluMunk said:

I have an audition coming up for which I've got to prepare Video Killed the Radio Star, but they do it a 1/2 step up.

My question- in band situations like this do you all prefer to learn songs in new keys, or do you learn it in the original and then set your song/combi/whatever to the new key?

 

Transpose Video Killed The Radio Star 1/2 step up from C# to D? I'd say sure, and then learn it by transposing the original track into D. 

 

Hadn't heard it in in years. What a fun song! If it's an audition, break out your best CP70 program. The piano part demands it iMO. 

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, BluMunk said:

I have an audition coming up for which I've got to prepare Video Killed the Radio Star, but they do it a 1/2 step up.

My question- in band situations like this do you all prefer to learn songs in new keys, or do you learn it in the original and then set your song/combi/whatever to the new key?

Changing key on keyboards is a different process for every single one, and getting at the parameter is easier on some than others.  I'm not a fan - especially when using multiple keyboards.  

 

I think we all do our singers a great service when we transpose to fit their voices right, and I'd rather hear a tune a few steps up or down if it just sounds better for the voice type.   Yanking some songs to a distant key can sound crap without an entirely different arrangement though.   If that's needed, pick a different song.  There are millions.  

[Reezekeys]

And here we go with the "transpose or not" saga.

 

I'm not a fan of learning a song twice; seems like a waste of time to me.

 

Is it an obscure song that you'll only play with this band? Learn it in their key. Load up the original mp3 into a player that transposes and put it in their key to learn it. Is it less-than-obscure, a song you might be called upon to play in other situations, with other bands, etc? Learn it in the original key and use the button.

 

Why make things harder on yourself than you have to?

[jerrythek]

Same for me - I only ever learned it in Db. Who knew?

54 minutes ago, timwat said:

 

I've made December 1963 (Oh What A Night) much simpler, by learning it first in Db.

 

Seriously though, that's the only key I've ever been called to play that in.

 

[JohnH]

3 hours ago, Shamanzarek said:

 

 The one song I hate doing is "Oh What a Night". This song is played in C in live versions but on the recording it was apparently sped up so it appears to be in C# which is an inconvenient key for a keyboard based song like this. Two bands I play this song with insist on doing it in C#. In this case I use the transpose button.

Oh yes, this. I sing and play it and do it in C if onstage. When I made an SMF of it and did it with a ship duo for five years  I made it in C.  I would be hitting the button if in C# . When I play along to the MP3 and sing it I hit the button.

[RABid]

You will find that the more you transpose, the easier it gets. I like to learn it in the original key and play along with the song, then learn the transposed version. If you get used to using that transpose function, one of these days YOU WILL forget to change it back at the end of a song and start playing the next song in the wrong key.

[Reezekeys]

17 minutes ago, RABid said:

If you get used to using that transpose function, one of these days YOU WILL forget to change it back at the end of a song and start playing the next song in the wrong key.

 

So it's 1) learn once and take the slight chance you might forget to change the transpose. OR, 2) spend the time to learn twice. I'll take door #1 Monte.

 

20 minutes ago, RABid said:

You will find that the more you transpose, the easier it gets

 

Speaking only for myself, I find that not to be the case. For me it has to do with how common the chord progression is. There are songs I've never played in anything but the original key, then on a gig being surprised by having to play in a new key - and I have no problem with it and don't need "the button." Other songs with more unusual harmonic movement don't come as naturally, which require me to quickly run through to figure out. Surprise me at a gig and I may use the button there.

 

This has come up many times here and I always say the same thing - the button has a rightful place as a tool to be deployed when needed, not a crutch. Of course there's nothing wrong with learning a song twice in different keys if that feels better. What happens when you're with a new band and you have to learn it a third time? 🙂 

[Mighty Motif Max]

I learn a song in whatever key is needed generally, unless it’s a really last minute key change (say during final rehearsal 30 mins before the gig). If that song has signature parts or anything other than some fairly basic comping and such that’s the time I’ll use the transpose function. The other time is if I have a super complicated split and layer setup, like for some pop tunes, and I’m used to that layout from previous gigs.

 

I definitely used to use the transpose function more, but generally it’s just for last minute key changes now.

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, Reezekeys said:

Is it an obscure song that you'll only play with this band? Learn it in their key. Load up the original mp3 into a player that transposes and put it in their key to learn it. Is it less-than-obscure, a song you might be called upon to play in other situations, with other bands, etc? Learn it in the original key and use the button.

 

Why make things harder on yourself than you have to?

That would have been my response too, though rather than transpose the mp3, if I need the muscle memory for a song I've never played before and will never play again, and it's in a different key from the original, I'll just learn it by hitting the old enchangerator button on my keyboard so that I can get used to the key they called, but play along to the recording of the song in the original key. It messes with your head a bit but it's easy enough to to ignore it for three minutes. 

 

[Reezekeys]

14 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

I'll just learn it by hitting the old enchangerator button on my keyboard so that I can get used to the key they called, but play along to the recording of the song in the original key. It messes with your head a bit but it's easy enough to to ignore it for three minutes.

 

Unless you're cursed with perfect pitch!

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, Shamanzarek said:

The one song I hate doing is "Oh What a Night". This song is played in C in live versions but on the recording it was apparently sped up so it appears to be in C# which is an inconvenient key for a keyboard based song like this. Two bands I play this song with insist on doing it in C#. In this case I use the transpose button.

Funny you should mention that one. I've always done it in C#, but not long ago, I did a gig where the bassist started the riff before I came in, and he unexpectedly did it in C, and I just went with it and said, okay, we're doing it in C. I liked that the song (which was never one I'd played a lot) suddenly practically "played itself," so now I've suggested doing it in C. :-)

 

After that, I likewise had the thought that, it flowed so easily in C, they probably recorded it in C and sped it up. But I checked the video, and watched the guy playing the piano, and sure enough, he was playing it in C#. Sure, it was mimed, but I doubt he would have recorded it in C and then mimed playing it in C#. Check at 33 seconds in... the first three notes of the main riff are being played black key, black key, white key. 

 

20 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Unless you're cursed with perfect pitch!

I'm okay with a half-step or whole-step transpose, but if it's more than that, there's a definite finger-to-sound disconnect that throws me, and I have occasionally gone to the chord something "sounds like" it should be. Luckily such a large transpose interval is something that I've been called on to do very rarely anyway.

[MathOfInsects]

12 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Unless you're cursed with perfect pitch!

Funny enough, I do have perfect pitch. You just have to sort of accept that it's going to a little bit of chaos for three minutes. Like sex. (That wasn't a brag, I was factoring in the cuddling time too, of course.)

[Delaware Dave]

Transpose and move on.  That's why the button was invented.....

[Sean M. H.]

4 hours ago, octa said:

for "Superstition" I'd transpose kb and keep it on the black keys. But, most everything else I'd learn in whatever key band is doing. 

 

 

That's a pretty important distinction/caveat you mention here.  There are some songs which simply can't be played in another key while maintaining the same feel--just due to biomechanics

 

...but aside from that, I always learn songs in the new/altered key.

 

Of course, the "right" answer is to learn the song in both keys (or to the extreme, learn EVERYTHING in EVERY key)--which should make you a better player ultimately...but I seldom practice what I preach in that regard due to time (and laziness)

[Morrissey]

13 minutes ago, Sean M. H. said:

Of course, the "right" answer is to learn the song in both keys (or to the extreme, learn EVERYTHING in EVERY key)--which should make you a better player ultimately

 

Yes, jazzers certainly preach this... learn tunes in all 12 keys.  It is a lot of extra effort but really drills the melody and harmony into you.

[CowboyNQ]

This is a big “it depends” for me.

 

If I have time I generally will learn the song in the band’s key without using transpose aids.  However there are exceptions to this.  These are:

 

- if I already know the song in a different key.

 

- If I know I’m going to have to play the song later on in the original key I’ll just learn the original version and transpose.  

 

- if the new key is ergonomically unsuitable.  I’ll give you a current example.  I’ve just joined a VH tribute and they play everything a semitone lower than the original.  What I’ve learned about EVH’s keyboard playing is that it’s very heavy on the white keys and full of sus2 and sus4 chords.  Moving these parts a semitone on the keyboard is certainly doable but makes them quite a bit less intuitive to play for someone of my limited talent.  So I just transpose.

 

Basically my rule of thumb is get the job done n the most efficient way possible.

 

if I do use a transpose aid I ALWAYS program it into the patch so I don’t have to remember to transpose/untranspose in the heat of battle.  I’ve learned the hard way…haha.

[cphollis]

My cover band has two strong vocalists, and we'll often change keys to accommodate their range.   Yes, it's a pain learning the same song in two or three different keys, but -- hey -- it's good for you!

[Docbop]

4 hours ago, Bill H. said:

 

Transpose Video Killed The Radio Star 1/2 step up from C# to D? I'd say sure, and then learn it by transposing the original track into D. 

 

Hadn't heard it in in years. What a fun song! If it's an audition, break out your best CP70 program. The piano part demands it iMO. 

 

 

Find it interesting no one has mentioned who the keyboard player is....  The one of today's greatest film score composers Hans Zimmer.