Amp alert: Rumble 100 on massive discount!

[Mark Schmieder]

It never occurred to me to try mine with keys! Mine is the 15" model; 18" is too slow in the transients and can be imbalanced across the frequency spectrum, and though the 12" is also a great model and mostly has sufficient bottom and headroom (forget the 10" and 8" models though), I went for 15" to cover more ground, and am glad I did as it served me well at an outdoor gig last Saturday.

 

This generation of the Rumble solid state combo amp is great; I despised the PREVIOUS amp that fender labeled "Rumble". So it was a surprise when this one was totally different, but I think it may borrow some tech from Genz Benz, who they bought a number of years ago.

[Reezekeys]

On 9/3/2022 at 11:11 AM, KuruPrionz said:

For that matter, the "horn" you're going to get on an amp in that price range is a nasty, spitty sounding cheap Piezo horn. I'd rather not have a horn than hear the trebles abused like that. 

3 hours ago, Pa Gherkin said:

Rob,I tend to agree with Kuru Prionz about cheap treble “horns”.

 

I agree as well; piezo horns sound like crap. But tell me what PPA or keyboard amp made by any reputable mfr today is using them (maybe the Roland KC or their tiny cubes)? I'm not sure what amps KP is referring to with the phrase "an amp in that price range", but since my Alto TX308 costs $139 can I assume that would be included? FYI the Alto website says it's a "1-inch (25.4 mm) titanium diaphragm HF compression driver." Doesn't sound too piezo-esque to me. And while I wouldn't compare the TX308 to a $700+ QSC, EV or Yam, I did do my first gig with them last night and they did just fine (my description is in the "Yamaha DXR8 vs DXR8 Mk2" thread a few posts removed from this one). I'll probably have a mini-review of these speakers soon, but so far they are impressing me, without any nastyness or spitty sound at all. I'll add that they're mainly for reproducing my "piano-like" keyboard sounds, e.g. rhodes & acoustic piano – not LH bass, not organ pedals! Gotta be realistic here.

 

From what I've read, heard, and experienced first hand, a bank of small speakers can reproduce full-range sounds. Using one or two 8" or larger speakers such as one might find in a guitar or bass cab, I'm not so sure. Then again I haven't listened to every guitar or bass cab out there. Again, if you're happy with the sound, that's all that matters. I'm pretty certain that were I to walk into a club and hear a DP through a bass amp, I would notice the lack of high end immediately.

[KuruPrionz]

27 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

I agree as well; piezo horns sound like crap. But tell me what PPA or keyboard amp made by any reputable mfr today is using them (maybe the Roland KC or their tiny cubes)? I'm not sure what amps KP is referring to with the phrase "an amp in that price range", but since my Alto TX308 costs $139 can I assume that would be included? FYI the Alto website says it's a "1-inch (25.4 mm) titanium diaphragm HF compression driver." Doesn't sound too piezo-esque to me. And while I wouldn't compare the TX308 to a $700+ QSC, EV or Yam, I did do my first gig with them last night and they did just fine (my description is in the "Yamaha DXR8 vs DXR8 Mk2" thread a few posts removed from this one). I'll probably have a mini-review of these speakers soon, but so far they are impressing me, without any nastyness or spitty sound at all. I'll add that they're mainly for reproducing my "piano-like" keyboard sounds, e.g. rhodes & acoustic piano – not LH bass, not organ pedals! Gotta be realistic here.

 

From what I've read, heard, and experienced first hand, a bank of small speakers can reproduce full-range sounds. Using one or two 8" or larger speakers such as one might find in a guitar or bass cab, I'm not so sure. Then again I haven't listened to every guitar or bass cab out there. Again, if you're happy with the sound, that's all that matters. I'm pretty certain that were I to walk into a club and hear a DP through a bass amp, I would notice the lack of high end immediately.

To be honest, I haven't bought much new gear in decades, always used and I don't pay much attention to that market. I did buy a new Boss Katana 50 MKII combo a while back but my Peavey Vypyr VIP 1 with a Scorpion speaker in it eats it's lunch for tones so it's on craigslist waiting for a happy new home. 

 

Unlike keyboards, where there are new and useful features introduced every year, guitars don't change much and an 86 Gibson ES335 Studio (my avatar photo) is completely relevant today. Mostly I gig with a Strat and Tele that I build from parts to suit my inclinations. Those should be good for as long as I'll need them. 

 

On the other hand, around 2008 I spent 2 years playing in a Motown cover band. The keyboard player had a Peavey Keyboard amp with a piezo in it. I wanted to pull the wires off that thing, it was obnoxious. Instead, I parked over on the other side of the stage, where I could ignore it. 

 

Apparently we now have the technology to build real tweeters that sound good. I'm in favor of that! 😇

[RABid]

I've had Peavy, Roland and Hartke keyboard amps. All sounded like crap. Buying my first PA powered cabinet was a breakthrough.

[Al Coda]

32 minutes ago, RABid said:

I've had Peavy, Roland and Hartke keyboard amps. All sounded like crap. Buying my first PA powered cabinet was a breakthrough.

 

Since I ditched Fender (guitar) amps and guitar cabs for keys late 70s, I never bought any so called "keyboard amp".

The 1st PA type combo I bought was a 2x 100 WRMS solid state power EV/Tapco "Entertainer" powered mixer and 2 EV 15/3 cabs,- each handling 100 WRMS only.

It was loud enough for monitoring my big 80s rig at (stadium !) outdoor gigs w/o clipping.

 

I guess, amplifier power rating measuring methods were much more conservative at that time.

 

 

A.C.

[Pa Gherkin]

Since wattage specs don’t seem to mean much,tone and spl ratings are what counts to me. The thing that gave me hope about the Rumble was my experience playing through a small bass  amp (single 12) while rehearsing in a recording studio. It was loud and even with digital pianos sounded really good . Damned if I can remember what make or model it was. I also encountered a friend playing a club gig through a two twelve cabinet that sounded really good. Playing through a small Alto a while back left me unimpressed but I hear they’ve come a long way in the last couple of years.  Unless I feel adventurous maybe I’ll just keep lugging around the heavy stuff . At least it is proven. We’ll see. Thanks for the responses.

[KuruPrionz]

2 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

Since I ditched Fender (guitar) amps and guitar cabs for keys late 70s, I never bought any so called "keyboard amp".

The 1st PA type combo I bought was a 2x 100 WRMS solid state power EV/Tapco "Entertainer" powered mixer and 2 EV 15/3 cabs,- each handling 100 WRMS only.

It was loud enough for monitoring my big 80s rig at (stadium !) outdoor gigs w/o clipping.

 

I guess, amplifier power rating measuring methods were much more conservative at that time.

 

 

A.C.

That and efficient speakers were less expensive. I've used quite a few EV speakers and they made great but hellishly heavy speakers back then. A 1-12" Mesa Boogie combo with an EVM 12 in it was terrifying< I don't want another one.

Friends used to play a Fender Rhodes or Wurlitzer electric piano through a Fender Twin with JBL D120s in them, classic. Clavs and chopped M3s were around too. 

I would not want to move any of that stuff around now, put it somewhere and leave it there! 🙂

[Al Coda]

Just now, KuruPrionz said:

I would not want to move any of that stuff around now, put it somewhere and leave it there!

 

 

Well, I always prefered these were moved around by roadies, regardless of consequences.

Not many options,-

use skilled roadies or make (too many) compromizes.

 

A.C.

[stoken6]

8 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

From what I've read, heard, and experienced first hand, a bank of small speakers can reproduce full-range sounds.

Bose 802, famously. Sounded nice if you use the accompanying controller.

Phil Jones is doing the "lots of little speakers" thing, as mentioned earlier in this thread. I wonder how this kind of combo would sound with keys? https://www.pjbworld.com/cms/index.php/product_suitcase_compact_bg-400/

 

Cheers, Mike.

[RABid]

I just looked at the current EV cabinets and was shocked at both the prices and power ratings. 12" 2 way with 2000 watts?!? Wow, things are changing since I last checked out powered boxes suitable for keys.

[Reezekeys]

As has been mentioned by a few others here, take that "2000 watts" with a grain of sand. Whatever the true figure is, it's usually more than enough to fry the drivers, so needs some kind of limiting.

[AnotherScott]

Yes, often they're using a stereo amp that delivers the same power to each channel, I guess that can be more cost effective for some reason. I think I first saw that on the QSC K8. It was 1000 watts, bi-amped using a stereo amp that sent 500 watts to the LF driver and 500 watts to the HF driver... but in practice, the LF driver might have seen 500 watts, but the HF driver probably never saw over 50.

[Delaware Dave]

On 9/5/2022 at 1:51 PM, zeronyne said:

My Acme B1 cabinets .........

 

 

 

[Al Coda]

5 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Yes, often they're using a stereo amp that delivers the same power to each channel, I guess that can be more cost effective for some reason. I think I first saw that on the QSC K8. It was 1000 watts, bi-amped using a stereo amp that sent 500 watts to the LF driver and 500 watts to the HF driver... but in practice, the LF driver might have seen 500 watts, but the HF driver probably never saw over 50.

 

Yep,- and the woofer might be 4 or 8 ohms while the HF driver is 16 ohms.

 

It´s also possible these 1000 (or 2000) Watts PEAK power are into a 2 (or 4) ohms load,- so it´s the half into 8 and a quarter into 16 Ohms.

Now the "math" ...

1000W peak is about 500W continuous/program and about 250W RMS.

Now google and recognize how many measutring methods for RMS power rating are available out there.

There are several ...

 

 

A.C.

[Adan]

Most keyboard amps from major manufacturers (Motion Sound excepted) are heavy and still sound like crap.  Worst of both worlds.  The Rumble is at least super light.  I don't think I'd use it alone for keys, but it can be a useful part of an audio arsenal.

 

Convenience and portability are high on my list.  I like to take no more poundage and connections than I need.  Everyone makes those trade-offs differently.

[The Real MC]

Barbetta made great keyboard amps especially for DPs.  I played a friend's CP70 through one and it sounded glorious.  A shame they aren't made anymore.  I still have a working Sona 31, but I won't play it loud because they are known to fry an unobtanium IC with too much wattage.

I was very happy with Bose 802 with companion controller since 1990.  Pretty tough to beat.  I recently moved to a new state where stages are a lot smaller and needed something more compact than the 802 system with power amp so I bought a QSC KW122 which I am very happy with.

[stoken6]

5 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

As has been mentioned by a few others here, take that "2000 watts" with a grain of sand. Whatever the true figure is, it's usually more than enough to fry the drivers, so needs some kind of limiting.

 

4 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Yes, often they're using a stereo amp that delivers the same power to each channel, I guess that can be more cost effective for some reason. I think I first saw that on the QSC K8. It was 1000 watts, bi-amped using a stereo amp that sent 500 watts to the LF driver and 500 watts to the HF driver... but in practice, the LF driver might have seen 500 watts, but the HF driver probably never saw over 50.

 

4 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

Yep,- and the woofer might be 4 or 8 ohms while the HF driver is 16 ohms.

 

It´s also possible these 1000 (or 2000) Watts PEAK power are into a 2 (or 4) ohms load,- so it´s the half into 8 and a quarter into 16 Ohms.

Now the "math" ...

1000W peak is about 500W continuous/program and about 250W RMS.

Now google and recognize how many measutring methods for RMS power rating are available out there.

There are several ...

 

 

A.C.

Which is why SPL is the more relevant statistic, rather than power output. Look for db (1W/1m).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[The Real MC]

OEMs have played marketing tricks with wattage ratings for eons.

[Dave Bryce]

32 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

OEMs have played marketing tricks with wattage ratings for eons.

...and frequency specs.

 

dB

[Reezekeys]

It gets a little more interesting when you start digging into the spec sheets on their websites. For the Alto TXs, "2000 watts" is prominently displayed at the top of the page. Scroll down a little and you see:

 

"Low-Frequency Driver: 8.0” driver, 2.0” (50 mm) high-temperature voice coil. 1 x 650 W RMS @ 2 Ω."

"High-Frequency Driver: 1.0” exit ceramic driver with 1.4” (35 mm) coil. 1 x 350 W @ 4 Ω."

 

That's 1000 watts RMS. More than enough power for a single 8" driver and horn - but people like big numbers - so let's double them! QSC is even a more unclear; the top of the page states "each model is equipped with a 2000-watt power module." Scroll down and you see "LF: 1800 W peak Class D, HF: 225 W Class D." So "peak" applies to the LF amp but not the HF one? In any event, the letters "RMS" don't appear on that web page, wrt amp power.

 

Although I was expecting the peak vs RMS marketing bull, one spec did catch me by surprise: power consumption. QSC says 1.9 amps @120 volts - that's 228 watts, at "1/8 power", which they say is "representative of current draw with typical music program material with occasional clipping." Alto only says "Consumption: 900W." What? Almost a kilowatt per speaker? Something seems wrong, because in the USA, using two of those speakers plugged into the same circuit risks blowing a fuse or tripping a breaker! At the least, both speakers would need a dedicated circuit with nothing else attached. (I know class-D amps' current draw varies with the program material, so 900W is most likely a sine wave at full volume - maybe Alto should qualify this spec like QSC does!).

[KuruPrionz]

Audio specs are all "fish stories."

 

I caught a fish once, it was this big (stretches arms out sideways). Yep. Big ol' fish. Almost sank the boat...

[MPN21]

19 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

...since my Alto TX308 costs $139 can I assume that would be included? FYI the Alto website says it's a "1-inch (25.4 mm) titanium diaphragm HF compression driver." Doesn't sound too piezo-esque to me. And while I wouldn't compare the TX308 to a $700+ QSC, EV or Yam, I did do my first gig with them last night and they did just fine (my description is in the "Yamaha DXR8 vs DXR8 Mk2" thread a few posts removed from this one). I'll probably have a mini-review of these speakers soon, but so far they are impressing me, without any nastyness or spitty sound at all. ...

I've read some good reviews on the Alto TX308.   $139 for a quite usable powered speaker!  Amazing.  That's what I call "rain gear" - cheap enough to use in the rain.  

[timwat]

31 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Audio specs are all "fish stories."

 

I caught a fish once, it was this big (stretches arms out sideways). Yep. Big ol' fish. Almost sank the boat...

 

And sometimes they're stuffed full of weights: