I Suck

[CEB]

I effing play Bach.  You would think I should be able to play a facsimile of both clav parts in Superstition at the same time. I have two boards.  I suck.  

 

 

[Morrissey]

Go easy on yourself.  Big task to get two hands to sound like four very busy, syncopated hands.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

 

[JohnH]

I play the Doors keys and bass parts including Riders on the Storm for 17 years with two of the top tributes around here.  I now have all the Boston Foreplay parts down, but after hours of work am still not able to play it onstage or play both parts together yet. I will get there. But I know the feeling everyone can play this but me. 

[Stokely]

My solution to these hard parts, play my own version.  Nobody has complained (to me) yet.    For one thing, I think Superstition was more than two parts, I have read it was six.   I can't play the clav and do the horns at the same time myself.  I'm notoriously bad at doing two hand syncopation, or trying to sing over a syncopated part.  Sting I aint.

Oddly, I don't have problems playing the two Foreplay parts, but I do have issues with that one "turnaround" that the right hand does in the middle of the long progression once it starts.   Adding the left hand doesn't hurt, but it doesn't fix my right hand either!    I think it goes to a G#/C from a C# if memory serves and I can't get the fingering to work smoothly.  Billy Powell and his odd (to me) minor-major riffs like in the first part of the Call Me the Breeze solo I find very difficult.

[Docbop]

 

[Adan]

I don't think I've played this iconic riff exactly the same way twice.  Like so many things musicians obsess about, audiences don't seem to care.

[Reezekeys]

IMO it's not whether or not the audiences care or not - most of the time they don't. But you may think they care – that's good enough to plant the "I suck" seed. I would be asking myself where the feeling comes from - my expectations of what I think the audience should hear, or my raw ability to play what I envision in my head.

 

Close is good enough almost all the time. One person trying to recreate multitracked obverdubbed keyboard parts is an exercise in futility, again imo. I've played Superstition many times and tbh have never given a rat's ass as to how close it was to the original. I don't remember studying or transcribing it, but many years ago on a gig the song was called and I just played it from memory. Nobody looked at me funny or told me I was doing it wrong so I've just kept doing it "my way" ever since. I do think it's "pretty close", "fairly close", "semi-close", or however you may want to describe it - but I'm sure it's not exact, and it does not matter (to me anyway!). How you play the notes matters a lot more - imo, etc. etc.

[ProfD]

14 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Close is good enough almost all the time.

 

How you play the notes matters a lot more - imo, etc. etc.

QFT.

 

The notes are fairly easy to figure out.  Being able to nail the groove probably leads to that sucky feeling.

 

Otherwise, a thread exists around here that breaks down "Superstition" for those who obsess over, er, want to play it correctly(?).  Whatever that means in the grand scheme of things. 😎

[synthizen2]

Realizing that, for most of my playing, nobody in the audience (except for other keyboard players or keyboard enthusiasts) really care... I wouldn't want to make that reality "my constitution" about my playing.

 

If I were to do that... I would try to minimize everything I do, playing in a way that's barely noticeable, hiding out in the background (like many audience members think keyboard players are doing, anyway... especially when the sound engineer has you buried in the mix).

 

BUT... the bandleader and other bandmembers WOULD notice... and my pink slip would be coming shortly. 

 

And, my constitution says... "Play as well as you can, as accurately as you can... and have fun too!".

[stillearning]

I have played this song in multiple bands, and never exactly the same way twice, which means obviously not exactly the same as the recording, but generally more than good enough from the audience's perspective. For me, the better the groove laid down by the bass and drums, the easier it is to play well, or at least, feel like I'm playing it well.

[funkyhammond]

3 hours ago, CEB said:

I effing play Bach.  You would think I should be able to play a facsimile of both clav parts in Superstition at the same time. I have two boards.  I suck. 

 

I can't remember hearing a rendition of Bach with a down tempo, swinging, syncopated feel, but I'm open to anything. 😁  Have you played a lot of funk music? And funk grooves with swung 8ths? Not an easy feel to nail. Look at some of the live videos on youtube of Stevie playing the clav on that tune (e.g. the Sesame Street version). The clav part is very simplified (sometimes supported by the guitar) but it still has the swinging funk feel that locks in that pocket with the drums and bass. That's way more important than whatever notes were being played in the studio recording.

[Mills Dude]

Yes, you do and so do I.  I'd venture to wager that in comparison to Stevie Wonder, we all suck.  Now that we got that out of the way, go play the tune the best you can and make some people happy along with some extra cash.

[nadroj]

3 hours ago, Morrissey said:

Go easy on yourself.  Big task to get two hands to sound like four very busy, syncopated hands.

 

 

I remember learning it that way once. Played it with a band, sounded pretty good, but it didn’t work quite as well transposed into E.

 

Then I played it with my main band at the time. Prepped myself to do the proper intro in yet another key, and then OH GUESS WHAT, the guitarist started playing the riff. The “wrong” way. Dance floor still filled, I gave up, accepted my fate as guitarist B and went back to playing it the pleb way along with him.
 

World hasn’t stopped spinning. 

[Adan]

I was too glib in my post above, but the point I wanted to make was that the audience does not care whether you are nailing the Clav parts in the original recording.  Obviously, they care whether what you're playing sounds good, and even if they don't, you still should.

 

Thinking back on the bazillion times I've played this song, some of my variations where probably as much about keeping myself entertained by not playing it the same way every time.  in most cases with this tune, what matters is how many booties you can get out of their seats.

 

I'd much rather play Don't Worry Bout a Thing or some other slightly off the beaten path Stevie tune, but someone is always calling Superstition.

[ProfD]

I'll also add that the *secret* to playing this song requires thinking more like a percussionist than a KB player.  It's all about funky rhythm.  There is no real tab or sheet music for it. 😁😎

[KuruPrionz]

4 hours ago, CEB said:

I effing play Bach.  You would think I should be able to play a facsimile of both clav parts in Superstition at the same time. I have two boards.  I suck.  

 

 

You talking about the signature lick that Stevie wrote for Jeff Beck? Stevie plays it on clav but it's not the same. 

Last band I was in I had to play the signature lick, then sort of morph into the horn part during the vocals. I faked it and fluffed it, the only things that really mattered was the lead singer, the drums and the bass. 

 

[stoken6]

I've come to the conclusion that it's actually four questions you have to ask before accepting a gig:

1. Pay

2. Address

3. Dress Code

4. E or Eb for Superstition?

 

If Eb, chances are I'm playing riff A, and guitar will do a scratch James Brown thing. If E, then inevitably guitar's playing the main riff. I've recently shedded "clav B + horns" to complement, because this situation seems to arise with remarkable regularity.

 

@CEBEd, give yourself an hour on this, in the woodshed, with the metronome, before deciding you suck. You may be surprised by what that can achieve - I was.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[MathOfInsects]

All the humans who can pull off the "comp" Superstition part have my respect and admiration. Every time I've tried it, it sounds like I don't know how this very famous song is supposed to go. So I still just do the "guitar" line with a little grace-note juice on it and people (aka the band and FOH) are satisfied I've done my job.

[Bobbo Fett]

Bar gig, right? Trust me, NO  ONE in the room is gonna be all that worried about it.....

[TommyRude]

The 100th thread on Superstition... and yet it never gets old.  It's like golf - no one has ever mastered it and no one ever will, yet we soldier on, like searching for the holy grail.

[MathOfInsects]

10 minutes ago, TommyRude said:

The 100th thread on Superstition... and yet it never gets old.  It's like golf - no one has ever mastered it and no one ever will.

When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer.

[Adan]

5 hours ago, TommyRude said:

The 100th thread on Superstition... and yet it never gets old.  It's like golf - no one has ever mastered it and no one ever will, yet we soldier on, like searching for the holy grail.

 

I think of it as a thread about authenticity versus creativity in playing covers -- the letter versus the spirit.  That topic is commonly revisited but like Sisyphus most of us confront this issue over and over.

 

It's hard to believe there's a Stevie song I hate playing, but Superstition has joined the ranks of Deplorables just from sheer repetition.  Like I mentioned above, I think subconsciously I mess with the riff just to keep myself interested and perhaps as a form of passive aggressiveness towards the universe for making me play it so many times.

[Joe Muscara]

I've linked below to the thread where Josh aka FunkKeyStuff aka FKS wrote up how to play Superstition, including sheet music for it. His original post is on page one, but the image links no longer work. On page 3 is a post by me where I share a PDF I created from his post that includes the text and images so I could print it out and learn it.

 

Josh's work on this is so definitive I felt it's worth linking to again. Combine that with the VULF video above and you have what you need to learn the tune. I'm not saying CEB is missing this, I get that he's saying he's frustrated with himself about trying to learn it and that's the point of the thread for him. I just wanted to let those who come across this thread know there's good info available.

 

P.S. CEB - Be Kind to Yourself! You play good stuff. Some things take time and it can be annoying when it takes more than we want. If I beat myself up for everything I haven't learned, I'd be a bloody pulp on the floor.

[allan_evett]

22 hours ago, Docbop said:

 

 

This resonates for me.  After 15 or so years of learning to 'Play the right notes all the time, or else...', I've spent several decades letting go of it; and it's been a slow process.  As well as some Patreon group studies with Matt Rollings - and a few, invaluable one-on-one video meetings, I'd gotten a taste of this concept from his series of videos.  Tying directly into CEB's premise here, I had an enlightening experience during one of those video lessons. When I played Matt's intro to "I've Been to Memphis", his response came from a rather non-technical place; it was something along the line of, 'Good playing transcription from the original recording, but I want to hear you, not you imitating me'.  While the signature licks up front are important to set the song up, the remainder of the intro can and does deviate, as shown by the handful of players that have covered piano on the Lyle and Large Band gig.  About 20 years ago my then girlfriend - now wife helped turn me into a big fan of Lyle Lovett's music.  Have seen quite a few of his shows.

 

21 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

I don't remember studying or transcribing it, but many years ago on a gig the song was called and I just played it from memory. Nobody looked at me funny or told me I was doing it wrong so I've just kept doing it "my way" ever since.

 

My experiece, almost exactly.  Considering what I shared in the above paragraph, I wonder what Stevie's response might be to any of us playing 'Superstition' for him.

[MathOfInsects]

I don't think the Wulf version is completely viable. I do like the ghost notes. It's worth saying that most of our clav-sounding devices don't do ghost notes well, which is where the struggle comes in. It starts to sound like a polka if those percussive events speak a pitch. Oh I'll speak a pitch, don't think I won't. I will SPEAK A PITCH RIGHT HERE.

 

I think JP's is killer. However, when I have attempted it, the problem I've run into is that so many of the events are either actually ghosted or in the same range (on overdubs), that playing it on a single clav board sounds like showing everyone how confidently I can play a song wrong. Those ghosts an octave higher end up sounding sort of cute, and unless you have incredibly refined finger independence and a really good clav sound (or actual clav), it's very hard to get the comp part to still come off like people think the song goes, which is that single Ebm pent line. 

I have a very clear memory of deploying it with a funk band I was playing with at the time, all proud of my new toy, and seeing five heads all tilt at the dog-angle, trying to figure out what the hell they were hearing. "IT'S THE ACTUAL PART" did not have the magic effect of convincing them they liked it, that you would think.

I've tried it on low-profile gigs since then, and have never made it play out front as I want it to. It always just sounds like I don't know how to play Superstition. Obviously I'm sure my execution is maybe too literally an execution, but in general it's very hard to convince people to "have heard" it the way a deep dive reveals it to be, instead of the way everyone thinks it goes: Eb minor pent all day.

[MathOfInsects]

In fact, if someone's mastered JP's reduction, and feels confident sharing it, I'd love to see how someone pulls it off convincingly in a way that plays well live. 

[KuruPrionz]

23 hours ago, CEB said:

I effing play Bach.  

This is the source of angst, not that you play Bach but that you "effing" play Bach. 

Bach's work is precise composition, written on paper prior to being finalized. It gets played in recitals, where people sit and listen. It's not loud, there are no drinks to be had and nobody dances. Completely different situation and music. 

 

Superstition? Nope, Stevie just played it and they made a record. While he wrote it for Jeff Beck, his version happened to come out before Jeff's did and it was quite some time later, well after Stevie gave Jeff the song. Stevie had the hit, it's the one that's known despite his intention and attempt to share with a musical brother.

 

People go to the club, have a drink, maybe dance a bit and have a few laughs. 

This is not a recital, they are not there to hear a perfect replica of a known piece. I've played Superstition many times without any keyboards or horns, also Sweet Home Alabama without the iconic piano solos, and tons of Motown without strings, horns, a trio of female backup singers, percussion, 2 or 3 keyboards, 3 guitars, etc. 

 

Nobody cares about that in the slightest. Give them a groove and get the words right on the chorus? You're good, it's all good. 

You want a pop hit to be "perfect", just like the record? That's only your own hurdle to jump, nobody else will even notice one way or the other. 

[Bobbo Fett]

I approach it thusly: One of the bands I play in does 50's and 60's. We play one song that features rather prominantly in it a tympani part. The guy that sings it was stuck on stupid that those 4-5 tympani hits HAD to be in there, and that I had to play it. I said, "Tell you what, I'll make a deal with you. Let's do the song, and if even so much as ONE audience member comes up to us to ask WHY we left out the tympani part, I swear to you that I will add it the next time...." STILLLLLLLL waitin'..........

[funkyhammond]

2 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

It's worth saying that most of our clav-sounding devices don't do ghost notes well, which is where the struggle comes in. It starts to sound like a polka if those percussive events speak a pitch.

 

That's a good point and the reason why I do the main riff with my own version of embellishments. If I was using something better than Nord Electros live, I might try a slightly more authentic version.

 

The Scarbee clav sample in that Vulf video sounds quite good for doing rhythmic ghost notes. Anyone have experience with other clav sound libraries that can do an equally good job with those types of percussive ghost notes/slaps without sounding the pitches?