GSi Burn Owners - Any issues?

[WesG]

I have a GSi Burn on loan from Craig MacDonald right now....I am really impressed.  Out of the box, preset #19 "Clean 122" sounds really really good. I understand some folks don't like how these sound, but I am running mine from an A100 and looking for tone  that is more Gregg Rolie / Booker T than Jon Lord / Goldie McJohn.

Anyhow, this could be just the ticket for those bar gigs where I can't get a Leslie on stage. Any reliability issues etc with these guys?

I'm hoping to run it head to head against a Vent.  Going by memory, I think the Burn has the tonal edge here for me.

[Delaware Dave]

I have both the Burn and the Vent. I go back and forth between the two, I'll run the Burn for a couple of months then try the Vent and want to use that for a couple of months, then I'll try the Burn and will want to use that.  the Vent has that mic'd leslie sound while the Burn has the "in room" sound. The rotors are a little more separated on the Vent but the Burn definitely is usable and has more variety and more settings.  Since the Vent is a 122 emulator I use a 147 emulation in the Burn just to get a different leslie sound. I use the Burn with the tube engaged and without, so I  can get different leslie sounds because of the options.

 

The issues that I have encountered (its happened a couple of times) is that it has gone into a bypass type mode on me mid gig.  bypass is not actually engaged but slow and fast stop working. even switching between slow and fast doesnt do anything, the lights show that it is switching but nothing happens. rebooting the unit ALWAYS fixes it.  it's done it three or four times over about 50 gigs, not sure what causes it to do it.  the power plug seem to be not snug so if there is pulling on the power cord it tends to come out.  one of the jacks (not sure if it is an input or an output jack) is very tight,  once the 1/4" is inserted it is hard to get out. It hasnt loosened up over time.

 

 

 

[jpgxk3]

I've had mine for about a year, second owner. Once in a blue moon if I turned the back knob really fast, I would get a howl type feedback; lesson learned, just turn the knob slow/normal and no problems there. The o/d circuit stopped working about 2 months ago so I just swapped out the tube with a NOS I had in my spares bin. Problem solved. I also have a Vent 2, and like DD stated I swap out to either, but I find myself using the Burn as my go to sim and the V2 as my spare. I like the ease of the midi cable control for fast/slow control. One less halfmoon switch or foot switch to connect. Joe

[WesG]

Thanks, guys. Interesting feedback.  I think we can definitely conclude that, acoustically, neither is head and shoulders above the other.

jpgxk3, when your OD stopped working, how did the sound change?  Just like there was no overdrive, or did it stop entirely?

Dave - that's quite the concerning symptom!!! Especially as the unit thumps audibly on power up.

I also noticed the thing with some jacks being tighter than others. I was wondering if that was a unit-to-unit variance. Now I'm thinking that they must be using Cliff-style jacks; some switching, some not.

[Delaware Dave]

 see next post

 

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, WesG said:

Thanks, guys. Interesting feedback.  I think we can definitely conclude that, acoustically, neither is head and shoulders above the other.

jpgxk3, when your OD stopped working, how did the sound change?  Just like there was no overdrive, or did it stop entirely?

Dave - that's quite the concerning symptom!!! Especially as the unit thumps audibly on power up.

I also noticed the thing with some jacks being tighter than others. I was wondering if that was a unit-to-unit variance. Now I'm thinking that they must be using Cliff-style jacks; some switching, some not.

Wes, first time it happened I didn't know what was going on and did the reboot. The thump in the audio was loud.  Fortunately nothing was damaged; the second time it happened I remembered the thump; so I pulled my mixer output all the back, quickly did the power off/on on the Burn and then releveled the mixer.  It's only done it 3 or 4 times out of 50 gigs so I'm thinking it might be power related, but who knows.  Not a big deal; if it did it every gig I'd be concerned but its really more of an anomaly. That also doesn't count the practices I bring it to, so well over 100 times being used.

 

Concerning the tight jacks (don't remember which one it is) is there anything that can be applied to coat the 1/4" male plug so that it slides in easier without creating some sort of a short? Or could I apply tuner cleaner inside the female jack to make it more slick?  Just don't want to cause an electrical problem.

[jpgxk3]

Wes the o/d circuit just went quiet. 

[Pa Gherkin]

Wes,Having owned both two Vents and two Burns I actually concluded the Vent to be head and shoulders above sonically but all that counts in this thread is what you think of the sound of the units. I had two Burns because Guido is a standup guy who replaced my first one because of the ungodly howl that the first one would emit during programming. I forget which parameter it was but It got to the point that I could make it happen at will. Sounded like a diesel locomotive horn and was LOUD. It came from both the main and headphone outs. The first time it happened it was through phones and it scared the hell out of me. Unfortunately the second Burn did the same thing. I gave a specific warning about it to the guy who bought it from me and he still wanted it. I have no idea what percentage of them exhibit this problem.

      It's too bad because the Burn has some really nice features that the Vent doesn't, like the headphone out, midi control,and a few other effects.  Just thought I should share my experience since you asked about issues. Good luck and tell Craig we miss his input around here.

[WesG]

Thanks for the feedback, all. Very helpful!  jpgxk3, Craig and I had been wondering if the overdrive was in series or layered on -- you helped answer this. The tube OD is layered on.

Quick update - due to user error, I wasn't able to play the Burn on the gig and I borrowed an original vent at the last minute.   I have the exact same gig again on Aug 13, and am looking forward to being able to compare the leslie-less gigging experience with both sims.  I also multitracked the first show, so I'll be able to listen back more critically.

From my perspective, what matters most is how I feel when I'm playing, and that I can get things to response the way I want them to.  Particularly in that band - a classic rock bar band - there is sort of a point of diminishing return on tone and what really matters is that I feel completely at home with whatever rig I'm playing that day.

The vent totally got me there.  It felt like just playing a loud show where I couldn't hear the Leslie except through the wedges anyhow.  My big complaint was that my tone was harsh as shit, but I'm 99% sure that the was the terrible stage monitor (YX10P).  Bandmates thought it sounded fine, sound guy loved it, cellphone video sounded fine.

At this point, I'm thinking that either is fine, with the burn having the edge for private practice, thanks to the reverb and the headphone jack.

I really don't like the Burn's audio thump, but I don't know if the Vent is any better.

As for the Burn's tube overdrive....not a fan...but there seems to be a nice grind available with the 122 simulator. Or maybe that was the AO-28?

If I was incorporating a sim as part of my permanent rig, I'd be seriously looking at the Burn thanks to the patch memory.

And if you're wondering why I'm playing with no Leslie...check out the postage stamp we were on:

[Legatoboy]

I got mine from Josh Paxton the forumite so I'm probably the 2nd or 3rd owner ..

I needed a way to record w/o making to much noise with my B3 at night and in the day where it wouldn't be heard by neighbors and family. 

 

I upgraded my B3 w/ a Trek II OBL unit hooked it up and I love recording with it, I was using my 122 prior and still use that at times also. I also own and gig (or gigged ) a 145 and XK3.   

 

I had 1st heard the Burn unit up close on Tony Monaco's show during the beginning of Covid. and I was impressed with the sound of it.. I had seen him advertise it 10 years back or so and I was not interested in a Sim. then but I have stopped gigging and just record at home now.... I posted on KF I believe I was looking for one here...Josh had one for sale so I grabbed it... 

 

I'm still digging it but I have both the Rail Switch and the Foot Switch....using the unit itself to speed switch I found was too difficult with the pedal's other switch on top also and the encoder knob/lights... Slow to fast cam be amazing sometimes with it with, as someone has said,   more of a room sound vibe to it especially at the speed up nexus point ( I have no real experience with the Vent BTW) ...

 

I like the 'Clean Patch' also but have had good luck dirting it up  and adding some tube drive with  slightly dirty breakup edge with the  B... the way I like it... I like it to break up alittle if I push the Vol over 65-70%... but not crunch as a general rule ... how I set up my real Leslies when I used them live or recording for the most part.  It took me a while to hit on a Dirty setting I liked though.... I really had to bring the Gain and Overdrive all the way up.... further than I thought I would... I needed to spend some time experimenting w/the Trek  II OBL line out signal and the Burn for a bit also before I hit on a Dirty setting I liked ...weather 122 or 147 Burn model .     

[WesG]

Thanks, Legatoboy - I'll play with the OD a bit more when I have that hooked up next.   Rather than the Trek-II kit, I built the adapter in the Burn manual and it worked fine....although I noticed a much better signal-to-noise ratio by going from G-G rather than G-gnd.  That could be organ-specific, though.

I'm curious where the Burn vs. Vent preference falls, when taking clonewheel vs. organ players into account. I have a sneaky feeling that the Vent sounds more like a mic'd up isolated Leslie, and the Burn sounds more like a Leslie in a room. I'm looking forward to the A/B tests.

I hear you wrt the switch on the unit.  For me, the absence of a half moon switch on the rail is a total show stopper.  It Fs me up every time. The last time I had to play a rehearsal on a CPA, I wound up putting it on a stool beside me, so I could push the button with my left hand! My feet are just too stupid to add one more thing.  I also mount one on my Nord when rehearsing.  One point in favour of the Vent - same halfmoon pinout as Nord and Hammond. I don't understand why GSi went off the reservation here..I can see how it would have made the Wah-Wah implementation easier, but ... who uses that?

I didn't realize Josh was a fellow KCer...a local player recently lent me his Standard Deviations CD...I found it very inspiring. Small World!  I saw him playing Gonzo on a YC-61 on his facebook recently. I guess that's why he doesn't need the Burn anymore.

[Legatoboy]

WesG,

 

I preferd it on the rail also, but with gears of gigging clones... I got used to the foot Switch... now back to the rail switch!  Probably why he sold the Burn, yup . I actually interesed in a YC 73 to gig with... not for my home recording rig! 

[Delaware Dave]

So i had a 'tight quartered' gig today and used just the PC3, Voce V5+ and the Burn.  I experimented with the presets on the Burn and I settled in on #17 (dry 122) with the following adjustments:  

- turned the tube on

- set O/D to 6

- reverb to 11

- set output boost to 120

- set horn to 104

- adjusted ramps (set drum up and down to 'slow') and speeds on drum and horn to taste

 

No high end shrillness! It sounded awesome.  We did REO's Roll with the Changes and the organ sounded so good I didn't want to stop playing the lead.  Followed that with Evil Ways and again it sounded great. Just a slight hint of mild breakup with the expression floored, just the way I've been trying to get the overdrive to sound.  I was really impressed with the top octave which typically is a little shrill even when I use the Vent.  Tomorrow I have a gig with more setup area so I will use the Gemini organ (Mojo in a rack) and I want to see how that sounds with the new Burn preset.

 

Also, i was setup in mono and it still sounded excellent.

 

 

[kaptainkeys]

18 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

Tomorrow I have a gig with more setup area so I will use the Gemini organ (Mojo in a rack) and I want to see how that sounds with the new Burn preset.

How do you control the drawbars of the Gemini?  Do you use the sliders on the PC3 or some other drawbar controller?

[jpgxk3]

Dave, have you tried the “mono” Leslie model? It’s not too shabby either. Joe 

[Delaware Dave]

On 4/24/2022 at 3:16 PM, GotKeys said:

How do you control the drawbars of the Gemini?  Do you use the sliders on the PC3 or some other drawbar controller?

depends on the rig combo I use:  When the PC3 is "alone" I split the keyboard at C4 and use a Voce MIDI drawbar unit for the upper drawbar, percussion and C/V control and use the PC3's sliders to control the lower drawbars (below C4); also use a switch on the PC3 to turn C/V on/off for the lower manual.  When I use my M-audio controller in conjunction with the PC3 I use the M-Audio to control upper drawbars (it has 9 sliders), percussion, C/V and use the PC3 for the full lower manual and its sliders for lower drawbar control and a switch for lower C/V on/off.

 

Note: I could eliminate the Voce MIDI drawbar unit when I use the PC3 solo and split the upper/lower manual at C4.  I could use the PC3 to control both sets of drawbars using a switch similar to how the Nord Electro/Hammond SK does it with one set of drawbars.  I could control all functions via the PC3.  Two reasons why I don't: 1) I like two sets of drawbars in real time as opposed to having to one set of sliders and having to use a switch to control whether upper or lower is active.  2) I'm lazy, I estimated that it would take me about 15 minutes to complete the setup on the PC3 but ......   I'm lazy.