Apple Event - Mac Studio

[EscapeRocks]

3 hours ago, Tusker said:

 The higher RAM options are very motivating. I think anybody using Omnisphere or Keyscape or an orchestral library is paying attention. 👍 👍

Yep.. that will be killer!

Heck, my late 2018 Intel Mac Mini with 32GB RAM runs Keyscape and Omnisphere without breaking a sweat. 👍

[nursers]

Just configured up a Mac Studio with non-default options like more RAM and a 2TB SSD etc, came out at AU $4000 plus, before display. Too cost prohibitive for me and like others have mentioned I hope this doesn't mean end of the 27 iMac

[cphollis]

Two thoughts?   First, if you put the scaling curve for M1 tech vs. Intel or AMD, it looks like that their rate of acceleration is sustainable for the next few years at a minimum.  The sheer compute density of these products are mind-blowing, and Apple looks like it's just warming up.  Put differently, they are clearly on their own trajectory and may be gaining velocity.

 

Second, availability sucked for me back in Jan when I ordered a M1 Max build.  It's still not here.  If I were doing it again, I'd create a list of "acceptable configs", and then snag one of the discounted, preconfig offers that tease me every week or so while I wait for my "perfect" config.

[Stephen Fortner]

Return of the G4 Cube! Looking forward to real-world tests. My first take is that the boxes are not overpriced, especially when you consider the price of components for a gaming PC with similar specs — especially the video card. I’m not much of a gamer and I don’t mine cryptocurrency, so my interest in the graphics end of things has always been for compute and especially video editing/rendering. To say nothing of music production, for which I imagine even the entry-level model would have a stratospheric capability ceiling for all but the most demanding users.

 

The entry-level model, perhaps with expanded storage, looks like all the computer I need. The base of the M1 Ultra model looks like all the computer I even possibly might need for the next 10 years. My newest computer is currently a late 2017 27" iMac with the 4-core 4.2GHz Intel i7, 2TB SSD, 40GB RAM, and 8GB RX580 graphics, and it cranks out content like a champ. That means I can take my time, but also that I can extrapolate how much utility I’ll get out of a Mac Studio over time.

 

The new 27" monitor? That’s more of a pass for me. It seems like it’s basically an iMac panel without the iMac and there are a lot of ultra-wide and 4k options out there that are more affordable.

 

Recall that the base Intel iMac Pro started at $4,999, pre-pandemic and pre-inflation. We can now retcon it as a stopgap measure and perhaps do the same with the Mac Pro 7,1. I for one am excited to see Apple taking A/V creators seriously again, dancing with the folks who brought them to the ball in the first place.

 

Cheap? No. A great value? Unquestionably. Especially if you can Schedule-C the purchase as a business expense and make a case to yourself for how many billable hours you’ll log on the thing in the first year of ownership. I don’t mean for this to be a Mac-PC shouting match — I know plenty of PC users who’ve built monster machines and are getting incredible results. But in my experience people who love to hate on Macs at a time like this are usually the same people who can’t have one because they’ve already maxed out their credit cards on nightclub tabs and tricking out their Subaru WRX with the ridiculous spoiler on the trunk.

[Jonathan Hughes]

"So that mean no iMac Pro coming so buy a Mini Studio and shut up?"

 

No, you can go for a Mini and a monitor. I have a 16gb mini and a 27" LG monitor. I wouldn't mind 32gb of RAM, but it's great, and far cheaper than an iMac. I'm a designer and photographer and was worried about a third party monitor (after being used to a 27" iMac at home and work), but this monitor was under $350 is totally fine.

[Docbop]

Maybe we can get Intel and Korg to become close personal friends and come out with a Kronos On a Chip next year.   

[timwat]

51 minutes ago, Stephen Fortner said:

But in my experience people who love to hate on Macs at a time like this are usually the same people who can’t have one because they’ve already maxed out their credit cards on nightclub tabs and tricking out their Subaru WRX with the ridiculous spoiler on the trunk.

 

I might suggest the people maxing out their debt ceilings on nightclub tabs aren't the same ones putting the whale tale on a WRX...which really does combat tail lift as they're hightailing it back to their mom's basement.

[ElmerJFudd]

You guys that grab one of these soon will have to share how low you can set buffer in Logic/MainStage with the heavy hitters like Omnisphere running full audio quality.  Anyone own a Thunderbolt audio interface yet? 

[Mark Schmieder]

https://www.mixonline.com/technology/news-products/apples-latest-mac-studio-aims-to-power-creatives?utm_source=SmartBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EA6969C3-2D84-4B78-9A81-8EEFA23885EA&utm_content=372C057A-BDCC-4621-91C3-B9638766CDB6&utm_term=f5289dea-472f-45e3-bcd3-f80c0560acd5

 

Not sure if that matches the official blurb or if the Mix editors spun their own story, but it sounds mighty impressive.

 

I notice it's 7". So what's on the B-Side?

[LarsHarner2]

I did get a MBP a few weeks ago- one advantage I find is that the battery life is excellent and I can get several hours having my Arturia and Presonus Studio 26c connected- it is USB-C; vs thunderbolt but the only audio I would be doing directly would be vocals. I did look at the 24" mac last year but wanted higher ram than that was offering.

 

[Reezekeys]

11 hours ago, LarsHarner2 said:

USB-C; vs thunderbolt but the only audio I would be doing directly would be vocals

 

And USB2 - the standard implemented twenty years ago, can carry 24 channels of audio at 192K. AT least that's what MOTU claims for a spec on one of their interfaces (the 24Ai):

 

Computer I/O channels:

USB 2.0 (44.1 to 48 kHz): 64 in/out 
USB 2.0 (88.2 to 96 kHz): 32 in/out 
USB 2.0 (176.4 to 192 kHz): 24 in/out 

 

It's hilarious to me how, when computers (and their i/o speeds) get faster, somehow we suddenly need that extra speed – like nobody could possibly have gotten any work done before? (Of course I'm generalizing, and this isn't directed at anybody on this board, but it does seem to be a thing everytime the computer world introduces something newer, faster, better, etc.) 🙂 

[Tusker]

14 hours ago, cphollis said:

Two thoughts?   First, if you put the scaling curve for M1 tech vs. Intel or AMD, it looks like that their rate of acceleration is sustainable for the next few years at a minimum.  The sheer compute density of these products are mind-blowing, and Apple looks like it's just warming up.  Put differently, they are clearly on their own trajectory and may be gaining velocity.

 

CP,  very very nice to hear your expertise and insight. For the challenged among us (🙋‍♂️) would you please explain what a  "scaling curve for M1 tech vs Intel or AMD" is? Is there something intrinsic to the M1 tech we should be aware of? Sorry to be so dense.  🙏

[Stokely]

Man I checked out of the pc/OS wars years (decades) ago.  At my work, the big boss has a hatred of windows yet we run a bunch of windows servers and my laptop is windows....man he hates it.   People get irrational, literally "fan"atic about it.  These are tools to get the job done from my point of view.   I reckon there some fine mixes and great music being done on various computers and that's what counts!

My big current concern is that Logic Pro is not performing well after I upgraded to Monterey.  I have an Intel mac and something isn't happy.  Weird stuff like the click track being off time, drummer tracks playing late etc.  It might be my interface, not sure.   I'm kind of wondering since I don't hear a lot of similar horror stories if the Mac OS has sort of "moved on" from the intel support a bit.   (And yes, I probably shouldn't have upgraded, but I was between projects and way back on High Sierra and wanted to get the newer versions of Logic :D)

Someone mentioned gaming pcs and video cards...you want to see high prices, look at the fleecing you'll take on some of those cards.  Or heck a gaming console, if they ever become available.  

[Stephen Fortner]

Like Joe Walsh, I can’t complain but sometimes I still do. Gotta say the education discount seems puny. When I was an undergrad, my discount on a Mac LC II with color monitor was something like 40 percent.

[stoken6]

Shame the price hike from 16GB Mac Mini to 32GB Mac Studio is so steep. The Mini would be enough computer for most musos, but 16GB RAM isn't very futureproof.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[miden]

hahaha! TBH, I am glad they didn't offer up any major change to the Mac mini range...just got mine and I would have been "annoyed" had a better spec'd version been available at not much more money!

 

Although I guess the salient point would be when any of this is available.

[Docbop]

4 minutes ago, miden said:

Although I guess the salient point would be when any of this is available.

The Mini Studio is available now the monitor there is a delay. 

[ElmerJFudd]

3 hours ago, Stokely said:

Man I checked out of the pc/OS wars years (decades) ago.  At my work, the big boss has a hatred of windows yet we run a bunch of windows servers and my laptop is windows....man he hates it.   People get irrational, literally "fan"atic about it.  These are tools to get the job done from my point of view.   I reckon there some fine mixes and great music being done on various computers and that's what counts!

My big current concern is that Logic Pro is not performing well after I upgraded to Monterey.  I have an Intel mac and something isn't happy.  Weird stuff like the click track being off time, drummer tracks playing late etc.  It might be my interface, not sure.   I'm kind of wondering since I don't hear a lot of similar horror stories if the Mac OS has sort of "moved on" from the intel support a bit.   (And yes, I probably shouldn't have upgraded, but I was between projects and way back on High Sierra and wanted to get the newer versions of Logic :D)

Someone mentioned gaming pcs and video cards...you want to see high prices, look at the fleecing you'll take on some of those cards.  Or heck a gaming console, if they ever become available.  

I am not sure what might be the issue here. However, as an Intel Mac owner I’m inclined to stay on Big Sur and Logic 10.6.3.  

[ElmerJFudd]

17 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Shame the price hike from 16GB Mac Mini to 32GB Mac Studio is so steep. The Mini would be enough computer for most musos, but 16GB RAM isn't very futureproof.

 

Cheers, Mike.

It isn’t the RAM alone jumping the price. It’s the CPU/GPU cores io controllers as will.  The M1 mini isn’t designed for 4K+ video editing. The Mac Studio is.  If you aren’t into video the current M1 Mini and many other models in the current line up are plenty powerful for most audio needs.  

[miden]

19 minutes ago, Docbop said:

The Mini Studio is available now the monitor there is a delay. 

 

 

ahhh, ok thx 👍

[LarsHarner2]

7 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Shame the price hike from 16GB Mac Mini to 32GB Mac Studio is so steep. The Mini would be enough computer for most musos, but 16GB RAM isn't very futureproof.

 

Cheers, Mike.

The price jump in memory alone could be the price of a computer- 

The one thing I would have liked would have been 2 internal HD's. My current PC has that, one was a 128gb SSD boot (not enough space) the second a 1 TB 7200rpm.

My laptops have had the option to install memory upgrades- but even though I serviced some of my desktops I had no desire to risk doing something to my computer later on.

[RABid]

• I've decided that my next Mac HAS to have at least a 2TB drive and preferably 4TB. I'm not looking for the fastest processor as my M1 Air does just fine, but the tendency for music programs to install everything to the boot drive with no option to offload onto an external drive really forces me to the biggest drive I can afford.

[ElmerJFudd]

33 minutes ago, RABid said:

• I've decided that my next Mac HAS to have at least a 2TB drive and preferably 4TB. I'm not looking for the fastest processor as my M1 Air does just fine, but the tendency for music programs to install everything to the boot drive with no option to offload onto an external drive really forces me to the biggest drive I can afford.

Are there many that don’t allow relocation of the sample library?  In my experience many do.  

[nursers]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Are there many that don’t allow relocation of the sample library?  In my experience many do.  

For sure, all my NI libraries and all my Final Cut stuff are now on external SSD drives.

[cphollis]

14 hours ago, Tusker said:

CP,  very very nice to hear your expertise and insight. For the challenged among us (🙋‍♂️) would you please explain what a  "scaling curve for M1 tech vs Intel or AMD" is? Is there something intrinsic to the M1 tech we should be aware of? Sorry to be so dense.  🙏

Sorry, geek shorthand.  Given a certain amount of silicon real estate (and power) how much compute power can you squeeze into it?  Any combination of parallelism, clock speed, interconnect architecture, can be used.  Aggregate integer speed is a simple approximation, there are others -- saw someone measure M1 Ultra at 11 trillion operations per second, and I can remember measuring processors in millions of operations, so this chip is literally a million times faster on that basis alone.  Put differently, this is real-deal supercomputer-level performance.  

 

The other aspect is remarkably low power consumption.  Yes, this is great for battery, but is also means that Apple can go more nuts on densities without the need for a lot of cooling, with the M1 Ultra coming in at an astounding 114 billion transistors.  In a Mac Mini.  Or a Macbook Pro.  Big memory (128 GB), decent memory bandwidth (800 GB/sec), unified memory architecture -- it's like that Bugatti you've always drooled over is now available for $3999.

 

The curve speaks to how fast a vendor can crank our improved iterations of their architecture.  Apple has been churning out exceptional silicon at a rate much faster than their peers, and looks like they are just warming up.  The M1 Ultra is just trolling the competition at this point.  Speaking practically, few need this level of computing power -- today.   I can't think of anything in the audio processing that might require this, other than maybe firing up 126 instances of SWAM Violin for a groovy sound.

 

This is not meant to be advice to buy one, or not -- just a bit of background on what's going on in the tech world these days.  Nice summary here: https://www.tomsguide.com/news/apple-m1-ultra-everything-we-know-so-far

[johnchop]

2K (edu pricing after tax) for a 1TB drive, 32GB of RAM, and the 10 core processor is better than I can do with a small form-factor Intel box where I'll have other compromises.

 

I expect it will have all the torque I'll need for years to come.

[stoken6]

20 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

It isn’t the RAM alone jumping the price. It’s the CPU/GPU cores io controllers as will.  The M1 mini isn’t designed for 4K+ video editing. The Mac Studio is.  If you aren’t into video the current M1 Mini and many other models in the current line up are plenty powerful for most audio needs.  

Of course. I simply meant that if the Mini is "enough computer" for you, then you are stuck at 16GB. If you want "a Mini, but with 32GB as the only change" you have to jump to the Studio.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ElmerJFudd]

2 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Of course. I simply meant that if the Mini is "enough computer" for you, then you are stuck at 16GB. If you want "a Mini, but with 32GB as the only change" you have to jump to the Studio.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Right, not being able to add our own RAM is the Apple way for the foreseeable future. 

[Reezekeys]

13 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Are there many that don’t allow relocation of the sample library?  In my experience many do.  

 

Even with the ones that may not "allow" it - meaning they don't mention the ability to do it - you can probably make a symbolic link to the external.

 

Speaking for myself, the SSD size requirements I see talked about here sound a little overblown. I have a 1TB in my laptop and have room for all my sample libraries (about 80GB), two MacOS systems (on separate partitions), plus everything else a more or less "normal" computer would use for day-to-day stuff - apps, documents, photos, email, etc., and I have about 300GB free. I know my use case might not be the same as others, like folks that do heavy orchestral work.

 

For laptops, having a larger SSD to store sample libraries makes good sense since you're not futzing with connecting cables & external drives as you move around. With a desktop that stays in one spot, having external SSDs doesn't present that same inconvenience. I would argue that makes less of a case for needing a large internal in a desktop, at least for musicians needing to store big sample libraries. With the premium Apple charges, I might go for more ram instead.

[Reezekeys]

17 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Right, not being able to add our own RAM is the Apple way for the foreseeable future. 

 

And has been for the last ten years, if you use a MacBook Pro or Mini. iMacs and Mac Pros have user-replaceable ram.