Yamaha CP88/YC88 vs. the rest

[pawelsz]

Woody has recorded very nice video presenting sounds of YC

 

[CyberGene]

I’m wondering if the FM pianos in the YC are sampled and thus the same as the ones on the CP or they utilize the FM-engine which would be much better, let alone leave some sample memory for other sounds. 

[AnotherScott]

The "DX" style pianos in the YC are FM, titled this way: 

 

FM Piano DA 

FM DX Road 

FM The EP 

FMDXEP 

FM Pf's Heart 

FM Urban EP 

 

The ones in the CP are sampled:

 

DX Legend

DX Woody

DX FTine

DX7II

DX Mellow

DX Crisp

[CyberGene]

20 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I’m wondering if the FM pianos in the YC are sampled and thus the same as the ones on the CP or they utilize the FM-engine which would be much better, let alone leave some sample memory for other sounds. 

I think I just found the answer, they are differently named on the YC and CP (and they are 7 vs 6 respectively), so most probably the YC ones are real FM. 

[CyberGene]

@AnotherScott yep, you beat me to it. Besides, there’s one more in the YC as I see from the addendum manual. 

[AnotherScott]

Yep, and I went to delete mine when I saw yours, but apparently the delete option has been deleted.

 

Yes, there's a seventh in that category, FM PowerClavi, though it seems to me they should have put that in the Clavi section.

 

 

[CyberGene]

I’m very GAS-ed on a YC61 right now. Available at Thomann, waiting for me! 😀 But if I do it, I think I’d sell the MODX6, I’m in a love/hate with that thing but lately I’ve been using it for Rhodes and piano only and it’s just not worth it and the programmability is so twisted and counter-intuitive I don’t see why I should waste its potential to use it only as a (two) preset rompler…

[AnotherScott]

For a lightweight board that will be doing very little if anything beyond Rhodes and piano, I'd also look at the Vox Continental for what I think is a better action (though as I said, I think the YC61 action is still quite good). I think both are strong on EP (I'm not used to saying that about a Yamaha!), but while I didn't have the opportunity to compare them side-by-side, I think I'd give the Vox the edge there too, it's one of the best EP boards, using the hybrid sampled/modeled EP1 engine from the Kronos, plus the tube for a bit of analog warmth. But while technically the Vox should be better sounding on piano with its extra large sample sets (again, from Kronos), I'm among those who was just never as enamored with the Kronos pianos, and I prefer Yamaha's. That's highly subjective, of course.

 

But regardless, I think it's another good option worth considering for this usage. Both give you about the same number of sounds in total,  though Yamaha offers a greater number of slots for user presets (which doesn't matter if you're using it for so few sounds anyway). Yamaha has the FM engine that Vox doesn't, Vox has a VA engine that Yamaha doesn't. Yamaha has the screen, the zoned MIDI controller functions, the full split/layer capabilities, the better Hammond emulation, the built-in audio interface, the internal power supply... lots of nice advantages, but not things you necessarily need in a board that's pretty much only doing piano and rhodes.

[CyberGene]

Well, I used the MODX6 for only a Rhodes and piano (and very rarely for organs). The idea is to start using organs more since I will be switching also to more rock oriented band too. Besides, I really like the audio interface which I plan to utilize for connecting a laptop with some VA synths (until Yamaha does the unimaginable and implement my idea about a rudimentary VA through drawbars 😀)

 

BTW I think you previously made some Rhodes comparison of various boards on PW and I didn’t quite like the Vox ones. Unless I’m thinking of some other board. If I’m not mistaken it uses modeled Rhodes sounds that were a bit too rubbery and synthetic for my taste although I really like the Vox design and features. I’ll be complementing the YC with my Hydrasynth (when not bringing a laptop), so the synth and VA part will be covered. But I’m planning mostly a single 5-octave board and nothing else for the music we’re doing, so the YC61 for the moment seems good. 

[CyberGene]

P.S. Just saw there’s a B-stock YC61 at Thomann for €150 less than regular and couldn’t resist 😀 Hopefully it was returned because somebody didn’t like the rotary and missed the new update for a few days 🤣 Thomann offer 30-day return and full 3-year warranty on b-stock items, so hopefully it’s OK, I never purchased b-stock so far. 

[ElmerJFudd]

11 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

P.S. Just saw there’s a B-stock YC61 at Thomann for €150 less than regular and couldn’t resist 😀 Hopefully it was returned because somebody didn’t like the rotary and missed the new update for a few days 🤣 Thomann offer 30-day return and full 3-year warranty on b-stock items, so hopefully it’s OK, I never purchased b-stock so far. 

If I could grab a B stock every time, I would.  Digital keyboards are like cars when it comes to depreciation. 

[ludo]

Is it possible playing the A and B sections using a weighted midi controller while playing the organ section on the YC61 ?

[CyberGene]

21 minutes ago, ludo said:

Is it possible playing the A and B sections using a weighted midi controller while playing the organ section on the YC61 ?

Yes, it’s possible. It’s a page in the settings called “External keyboard” and you can select for each of organ, key A and key B whether (and how) the YC61 keyboard and an external keyboard control that part. It’s very flexible. 
 

I’m actively reading the manual while waiting for my YC61 to arrive 😀

[ludo]

Thanks Cybergene, i just can't decide,YC88 or 61 + weighted controller (and then again: which one ?)

[CyberGene]

I also think I may add a weighted controller to the YC61. If I do, it should be something that is as light as possible, probably a Casio or the lower end Yamaha P-pianos. 

[ElmerJFudd]

12 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I also think I may add a weighted controller to the YC61. If I do, it should be something that is as light as possible, probably a Casio or the lower end Yamaha P-pianos. 

Don’t forget to check out the Kawai ES-110 when comparing to Casio or Yamaha P 

[ludo]

Haha, we are  thinking  the same way! Casio CDPS110 ? Yamaha P125 ?

[ludo]

Thanks ElmerJFudd !

[CyberGene]

@ludo seems like the P125 and S110 won’t work since they only have USB MIDI and the YC61 can’t work as a USB MIDI host, so that leaves only pianos with DIN MIDI out as possible controllers. Only the Kawai ES110 and the Korg D1 have one from the entry level pianos  There are also some Thomann branded pianos (with Medelli action AFAIK) but I wouldn’t trust them. The Kawai is pretty nice BTW. 

[AnotherScott]

18 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

pianos with DIN MIDI out as possible controllers. Only the Kawai ES110 and the Korg D1 have one from the entry level pianos  

 

There are also lots of lightweight models you might find used, from the days before manufacturers had phased out those jacks on their entry models... e.g. Yamaha P35/P95/P85, Korg SP-170, and a whole lot of Casios... PX-x00, PX-x10, PX-x20, PX-350, CDP-100 are some, there are others.

[CyberGene]

There’s also the Studiologic SL73/88 Studio controllers which are cheap and lightweight but I had a SL73 and hated its overly heavy Fatar TP100/LR action, so I sold it. 

[AnotherScott]

5 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

There’s also the Studiologic SL73/88 Studio controllers which are cheap and lightweight but I had a SL73 and hated its overly heavy Fatar TP100/LR action, so I sold it. 

 

Ah, yes, I always forget about soundless controllers. I haven't played that model. I've played other TP100 boards... hated some, thought some others were pretty decent. 

[ElmerJFudd]

I wonder if it’s possible to swap the rotary on the CP for the tweak they’ve did on the YC? 

[AnotherScott]

3 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I wonder if it’s possible to swap the rotary on the CP for the tweak they’ve did on the YC? 

 

The way I see it, if you can live with the five(?) rompler-style organ patches that exist on the CP, you're probably fine with its existing rotary effect. ;-)

[ElmerJFudd]

15 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

The way I see it, if you can live with the five(?) rompler-style organ patches that exist on the CP, you're probably fine with its existing rotary effect. 😉

I think that’s true, I suppose they wouldn’t want to negate the necessity for the YC61.  However, the change of action, the draw bar control and of course the organ engines already take care of that.   
 

Personally, I wish they’d have put the semiweight waterfall on the 73 rather than the BHS.  But it’s shaping up to be a great Swiss Army knife either way. 

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Personally, I wish they’d have put the semiweight waterfall on the 73 rather than the BHS.  But it’s shaping up to be a great Swiss Army knife either way. 

 

When I originally bought the YC61, I had wished there were a waterfall 73, that's what I would have gotten. The funny thing is, after I returned it (mostly because of the rotary), I ordered the newly announced SK Pro 73. It was taking so long (and I'd prepaid it) that the dealer finally said, here, take a 61, and when the 73 comes in, we'll swap. Well, in the end, I decided that, for the way I'd mostly use it, I could deal with 61, and I really did like the idea of it being smaller and about 4 lbs lighter than the 73 which tops 24 lbs. So ultimately, I did keep the 61, and for the times I might have used the board if only it had had 73 (like a LH bass situation), I figured I'll use something else. Which made even more sense since its interface complications ended up making me think I probably wouldn't choose it for LH bass anyway, compared to other boards I had which could do it more smoothly/simply.

 

Fast forward to today, and it turns out that instead of wishing I could get a YC73 waterfall, I'm actually glad that the 73 is BHS instead. It makes for a better companion to my PC4-7. While originally a 73-key waterfall was the YC I wanted, today, if the 73 were a waterfall, I would have been less likely to buy it. My usage now is different than it would have been two years ago, where it probably would have gone over a PC4 rather than under a PC4-7.

 

There really are needs for both semi-weighted and hammer action 7x boards. It's a shame that it is so rare that a company offers a given size with both kinds of actions. Nord does (with the 7x-key Electro and Stage models). Kronos had two versions of an 88. But it almost never happens. It would have been really nice to see the YC in waterfall AND hammer versions of a 73.

 

Tangentially, changes in needs are also why I was interested in a CP73 last year, but preferred the YC73 this year. Subsequent to returning the CP73, I picked up a Dexibell P3 and an older Privia that I liked, making the CP73 that much less useful to me, even if, as I'd hoped, the new velocity settings addressed my main problem with it. But the YC gives me most of what I liked about the CP73, plus its own advantages, and most significantly, now also gives me a clearly better organ than what's in the PC4-7 (something I wouldn't have said about the YC with its previous Leslie). And if I want to get fancy, the LEDs in the drawbars make it a more tempting controller for VB3m/BX3 on an iPad, too. (Either way, MIDI will allow me to use the Kurzweil's non-hammer keys with the organ, and in fact, the Kurzweil will let me trigger the YC's organ from a high trigger point, which the YC61 itself can't do. Though also, if needed, the BHS keys aren't bad for organ, as hammer actions go.) The CP layout is more conducive to on-the-fly editing of splits-and-layers and is generally more immediately "hands-on" in a number of respects, and there are times I'd prefer it, but on balance, based on my current usage, I'm getting more with the YC than I'm giving up (plus I have some ideas about how to address a couple of the things the CP does better). Though yes, I'm still ending up with three hammer action boards I really like, an embarrassment of riches. (Not counting assorted others which I think at this point I really need to get around to selling!)

 

Anyway, with this combo, I am sacrificing my usual preference for having the two sets of keys as close as possible (yay Privia), but I gotta admit, I think this looks pretty rad.

 

 

[Moonglow]

I know this is highly subjective, but how is the YC73 action for acoustic piano?

[ludo]

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

@ludo seems like the P125 and S110 won’t work since they only have USB MIDI and the YC61 can’t work as a USB MIDI host, so that leaves only pianos with DIN MIDI out as possible controllers. 

Thanks again, i did not know that and you saved me some trouble...

[AnotherScott]

4 minutes ago, Moonglow said:

I know this is highly subjective, but how is the YC73 action for acoustic piano?

 

In my brief experience so far, having made some adjustments to the velocity settings, I'm happy with it. No, it doesn't feel like the best of them, of course, but it's fine, I can play it without frustration, and yes, with actual enjoyment. I don't think there's any current board under 30 lbs that is clearly better. Again, assuming you tweak the response. And part of the key to this, I think, is that most other lightweight boards--which might likewise benefit from such tweaking--don't have the tools available to do it. Not only does the YC have the adjustments available, but they are easy to use. 

[Adan]

I'd like to see some comparisons between the YC/CP73 and the Numa X 73.  As lightweight hammer action 73-note keyboards they are natural contenders.    Based on what I've heard of the Numa on Youtube, doesn't match Yamaha for sound quality of pianos and epianos.  But in theory touch response can make up for some of that.  Anything with Fatar TP100 is crossed off my list, but the TP110 might be better.