Sustain pedal pitch variation with Alesis qs8.2

[Mcfuddy]

Hello everyone.

I've been having some issues using a sustain pedal on an Alesis qs8.2.

I've noticed that while using the pedal I will hear pitch variations... Not a quite a half step or anything, but to me it is definitely noticeable and makes playing pieces where prolonged sustain use is needed (like Satie's Gymnopedie) much less enjoyable.

I've already had the pitch and modulation wheels disabled to address other pitch issues. I've searched the forum and Google for specific information regarding this and haven't been able to find anything. If anyone has experience with this your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

[stoken6]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Does this happen on all programs? 

 

It's possible to assign sustain pedal to modulate pitch - I wonder if that has happened? (Check chapter 8 in the manual).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Dave Bryce]

19 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Does this happen on all programs? 

 

It's possible to assign sustain pedal to modulate pitch - I wonder if that has happened? (Check chapter 8 in the manual).

        

 

There are definitely some programs where the sustain pedal is supposed to bend pitch up a bit.  Mostly guitars programs, if memory serves….don’t remember that being the case on any piano programs.  

 

dB

[Mcfuddy]

On 1/30/2022 at 2:27 PM, stoken6 said:

Welcome to the forum.

 

Does this happen on all programs? 

 

It's possible to assign sustain pedal to modulate pitch - I wonder if that has happened? (Check chapter 8 in the manual).

 

Cheers, Mike.

Thanks for the welcome.

It seems that the sustain pedal on this doesn't have anything in the way of configuring. May just be an on off switch like the 8.1.

On 1/30/2022 at 2:47 PM, Dave Bryce said:

        

 

There are definitely some programs where the sustain pedal is supposed to bend pitch up a bit.  Mostly guitars programs, if memory serves….don’t remember that being the case on any piano programs.  

 

dB

I basically only use true stereo or the grand piano programs. Shouldn't be any pitch bending in those I don't think.

 

Gee ya know... I wonder if this is just a matter of slight power fluctuations? I hear that can affect pitch on keyboards? Don't know why that would only really have an affect while using the sustain tho.

[Dave Bryce]

1 hour ago, Mcfuddy said:

Gee ya know... I wonder if this is just a matter of slight power fluctuations? I hear that can affect pitch on keyboards? Don't know why that would only really have an affect while using the sustain tho.

 

QS series sound engine is all samples.  Power fluctuations should not affect the pitch.

 

dB

[stoken6]

11 hours ago, Mcfuddy said:

I basically only use true stereo or the grand piano programs. Shouldn't be any pitch bending in those I don't think.

Please check other programs and report back. That will be valuable info.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Rod S]

Long shot, but do you have a continuous controller pedal also hooked in (can't remember what the other input is)?  I had a pedal malfunction once creating havoc.  

 

Have you tried another sustain pedal?  

[Dave Bryce]

Make sure it’s not aftertouch either.

 

dB

[Reezekeys]

I've had a pitch bender output spurious data – i.e., it's supposed to have a "dead zone" in the middle when you're not bending, but for whatever reason it can sit there and spit out small pitch bending data. Might be dirt in the pot, or the pot just got loose and is a hair off the "dead zone" of its travel.

[Dave Bryce]

17 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

I've had a pitch bender output spurious data – i.e., it's supposed to have a "dead zone" in the middle when you're not bending, but for whatever reason it can sit there and spit out small pitch bending data. Might be dirt in the pot, or the pot just got loose and is a hair off the "dead zone" of its travel.

 

That's common with QS series.  Sounds like OP may have already been there.

 

dB

[Justin Havu]

QS8.2 doesn't have aftertouch via the keybed, only the 6.2.  Wouldn't hurt to check the settings, though.  Also, try doing a factory reset if you haven't already.

 

Also, does the pitch still fluctuate even without any pedals plugged in?

[Reezekeys]

32 minutes ago, Dave Bryce said:

 

That's common with QS series.  Sounds like OP may have already been there.

 

dB

Ahhh... right - I just re-read the OP. Sorry 'bout that!

[Dave Bryce]

43 minutes ago, justin_havu said:

QS8.2 doesn't have aftertouch via the keybed, only the 6.2. 

 

Right you are!  I forgot that - those were after my time there.

 

dB

[Synthaholic]

On 1/31/2022 at 6:19 PM, Mcfuddy said:

To be honest, I'm extraordinarily unhappy with this keyboard. Been pitchy ever since I got it. I don't really demand much from it either. Just... Sound like a piano and be on key/pitch. 

I'm guessing you are just experiencing what everyone who owns 1990s Alesis keyboards eventually experiences: dodgy pitch bend/modulation wheels. Either through your DAW or the free MIDIOX app, filter out Pitch Bend and CC1 and see if that solves it.

[Reezekeys]

7 hours ago, Synthaholic said:

I'm guessing you are just experiencing what everyone who owns 1990s Alesis keyboards eventually experiences: dodgy pitch bend/modulation wheels. Either through your DAW or the free MIDIOX app, filter out Pitch Bend and CC1 and see if that solves it.

I just got rapped on the knuckles by Dave a few posts above this. 🙂  In the OP, Mcfuddy says "I've already had the pitch and modulation wheels disabled", although no detail is given as to how that was done.

[Threadslayer]

45 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

I just got rapped on the knuckles by Dave a few posts above this. 🙂  In the OP, Mcfuddy says "I've already had the pitch and modulation wheels disabled", although no detail is given as to how that was done.

That's a good point. If the pitch wheel pot was just unplugged say, it would leave the ADC input floating which could cause enough spurious noise to cause dithering on the pitch. Assuming that it is in fact a pot into an ADC that is. I used to have a QS7.1 and my recollection is that it was.

[Dave Bryce]

I don't remember much about the specifics of the pitch issues with the wheel, just that it was a problem on a bunch of units. 🙄

 

dB

[Synthaholic]

3 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

I just got rapped on the knuckles by Dave a few posts above this. 🙂  In the OP, Mcfuddy says "I've already had the pitch and modulation wheels disabled", although no detail is given as to how that was done.

I should actually, like....read the threads first, then post. But where's the fun in that?!?

[Reezekeys]

Yea, guilty as charged! Many times.

 

It does look like you can assign any number or kind of controller to pitch (Mike, above, said the same thing) - so my first move would be to carefully go through the piano program and make sure nothing is. Maybe it's more on a global level - I only took a very quick glance at the manual so I'm not sure.

 

Also, unless I missed it in this thread 🙂 , we don't know exactly how this pitch shift manifests - are they small fluctuations in a note that's being held while the sustain pedal is down, or discrete shifts that happen only at the moment the sustain pedal is pressed – and if the latter, does the pitch return to normal when it's released? So many questions. Here's another - does this happen when playing the QS from another midi keyboard, or a sequencer? Ya gotta help us help you, Mcfuddy!

[Mcfuddy]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:52 AM, Dave Bryce said:

Make sure it’s not aftertouch either.

 

dB

After touch?

 

8 hours ago, Threadslayer said:

That's a good point. If the pitch wheel pot was just unplugged say, it would leave the ADC input floating which could cause enough spurious noise to cause dithering on the pitch. Assuming that it is in fact a pot into an ADC that is. I used to have a QS7.1 and my recollection is that it was.

I didn't do it myself... But I'm pretty sure it was simply unplugged. What should have been done instead?  

5 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Yea, guilty as charged! Many times.

 

It does look like you can assign any number or kind of controller to pitch (Mike, above, said the same thing) - so my first move would be to carefully go through the piano program and make sure nothing is. Maybe it's more on a global level - I only took a very quick glance at the manual so I'm not sure.

 

Also, unless I missed it in this thread 🙂 , we don't know exactly how this pitch shift manifests - are they small fluctuations in a note that's being held while the sustain pedal is down, or discrete shifts that happen only at the moment the sustain pedal is pressed – and if the latter, does the pitch return to normal when it's released? So many questions. Here's another - does this happen when playing the QS from another midi keyboard, or a sequencer? Ya gotta help us help you, Mcfuddy!

Well... What happens is, and I only really notice it when the sustain pedal is pressed, it's like.. as I'm hitting keys I'll hear the pitch bend up a bit... Then slowly bend back down. It's not a half step crazy fluctuation, but when using a clean piano sound it is noticeable. It doesn't return to normal when released and is only noticeable with the sustain pedal... Not the moment it is pressed and doesn't happen right away. It's ok at first... Then after a bit you hear the pitch slowly bend up a bit, then bend down. If I release the pedal the pitch will stay where ever it was when the pedal was released.

 

I haven't used any other midi keyboards or anything with it.

 

[Mcfuddy]

On 2/1/2022 at 6:34 AM, Rod S said:

Long shot, but do you have a continuous controller pedal also hooked in (can't remember what the other input is)?  I had a pedal malfunction once creating havoc.  

 

Have you tried another sustain pedal?  

I haven't. It's just an on off switch essentially with this though I think.

 

On 2/1/2022 at 5:27 AM, stoken6 said:

Please check other programs and report back. That will be valuable info.

 

Cheers, Mike.

I've tried other programs and it happens with them as well. 

 

 

[Mcfuddy]

More and more I'm wondering if I'm simply complaining and noticing natural fluctuations in the sound and am just an idiot.

[Rod S]

I know you said it is on all patches, but...

 

Just analyzing a single patch, (don't remember the exact nomenclature) but have you tried changing the pitch envelope to have no effect on sustain / release? 

 

 

[Mr -G-]

13 hours ago, Mcfuddy said:

More and more I'm wondering if I'm simply complaining and noticing natural fluctuations in the sound and am just an idiot.

Can you share a short recording?

[Reezekeys]

16 hours ago, Mcfuddy said:

More and more I'm wondering if I'm simply complaining and noticing natural fluctuations in the sound and am just an idiot.

Sustained piano tones shouldn't have audible pitch fluctuations, although unisons that are out of tune – along with the natural inharmonicity of shorter-scale strings – can cause a certain "out-of-tune-ness" in the sound. With unisons you hear it on a single sustained note, the other stuff happens when playing notes together. But from what you're saying, since you only notice it when he sustain pedal is used, it sounds like something else is going on.

 

I forgot to add to my last post a simple but sometimes effective approach to these kinds of weirdnesses: a factory reset. A quick google got me to a Sweetwater web page describing how to do it: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/alesis-qs-series-faq-qs8-qs7-qs6-qsr-reset/

 

Good luck.

[Mcfuddy]

16 hours ago, Mr -G- said:

Can you share a short recording?

I think that shouldn't be a problem.

13 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Sustained piano tones shouldn't have audible pitch fluctuations, although unisons that are out of tune – along with the natural inharmonicity of shorter-scale strings – can cause a certain "out-of-tune-ness" in the sound. With unisons you hear it on a single sustained note, the other stuff happens when playing notes together. But from what you're saying, since you only notice it when he sustain pedal is used, it sounds like something else is going on.

 

I forgot to add to my last post a simple but sometimes effective approach to these kinds of weirdnesses: a factory reset. A quick google got me to a Sweetwater web page describing how to do it: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/alesis-qs-series-faq-qs8-qs7-qs6-qsr-reset/

 

Good luck.

It's weird... I've tried to do this factory reset many times and it never shows that * or anything like the description in the link says. I'm uncertain if it works properly

[Threadslayer]

On 2/2/2022 at 3:49 PM, Mcfuddy said:

After touch?

 

I didn't do it myself... But I'm pretty sure it was simply unplugged. What should have been done instead?  

 

 

Sorry, I missed this question because it was embedded in other responses. One thing that can be done simply and inexpensively is (IF in fact it is a potentiometer into an analog to digital converter) is to replace it with two precision (1% or better) fixed resistors of the same value such that the midpoint (which was the wiper on the pot) is exactly half the voltage across the two ends which might be at 0V and 3.3V or -5V to +5V or something else depending on the voltage range of the analog input. Note, I am not recommending that you do anything without having seen the schematic, but if you know a tech or have an electronics background yourself, this would be a simple 15 minute test to eliminate the floating analog input as a noise pickup.

[Mcfuddy]

On 2/3/2022 at 10:06 AM, Mr -G- said:

Can you share a short recording?

Here's a sample. It's particularly noticeable at the end.

I mean... This sounds bad, right?  Besides the simplistic and subpar playing.

pitchsample0.m4a

[Reezekeys]

Sounds like a very small amount of LFO is modulating pitch - at a fairy slow rate too.

 

I would go through all the piano program's parameters and make absolutely sure LFO is not assigned anywhere.

 

edit - OK, I forgot this is related to sustain pedal use. I'm at a loss, unless there's a way to activate an LFO using the sustain pedal.

[Mcfuddy]

1 hour ago, Reezekeys said:

Sounds like a very small amount of LFO is modulating pitch - at a fairy slow rate too.

 

I would go through all the piano program's parameters and make absolutely sure LFO is not assigned anywhere.

Thanks. I've looked at the settings and it's strange... I mean I've reduced speed and levels down to zero so I guess that's it. There's no simply turning it off it seems. It does seem to have improved the issue greatly and I am very appreciative.

 

Now do I need one of those PMCIA cards? Because as it stands right now this thing never saves my settings once I store them because they're not there whenever I turn it off and turn it back on. 

 

Edit: yeah... Anything saved in general settings or in one of the user banks just disappears once the keyboard is turned off a few seconds. Nothing in the manual about write protection. I wonder if the internal battery needs to be replaced or something.