Amplification & Speakers

[The Piano Man]

Always lots of great chat on here about the range of excellent keyboards out there.

 

I have reached a point where I now fully consider amplification and speaker setup to be the most important.

 

I know a lot of you know this already and it maybe took me too long to realise.

 

Years of putting high end stage pianos through Roland KC amps in mono etc. Or even mid range stuff in stereo⦠still not a great sound.

 

Anyway, I recently upgraded on the amp/speaker side of things and, not only did I realise how much they improve top end stage pianos, I was surprised to realise how good lower end older stage pianos could sound.

 

I actually sold my red keyboard during lockdown and now own only old stage pianos: Korg SP100 and Technics P50.

 

However, through my Logic System with MC2 amp, these older boards sound great.

 

Any thoughts on the topic? Anyone out there enjoying an older stage piano through some top end sound system?

[cphollis]

I think a lot of keys players realize at some point that they can only get so far with guitar amps and most "keyboard amps". Their worst offense is that they color the sound. A self-powered PA unit (or two) is a different world -- it's all there, sound-wise.

 

And then you go to IEMs for true bliss.

[KuruPrionz]

Speakers are where the rubber meets the road as far as the audience is concerned. Quality speakers are a long term investment in your tone.

This is one of those areas where nostalgia (just for one) can really lead one down the wrong path. Speaker technology and manufacturing is at an all time high point in history, some of the newest stuff sounds absolutely amazing.

 

Our bandleader just bagged his JBL 15" 2 ways for a set of TurboSound speakers that have subwoofers on the floor and relatively slender columns filled with smaller speakers for the higher frequencies, They sound so much more natural and lifelike compared to the JBLs, especially at the crossover point. Our vocals never sounded so good and his acoustic guitar sparkles now instead of honking. Kick drum is fat and clear etc.

 

Plus we no longer have to double up to heave those huge heavy cabinets up on speaker stands. That was not fun, this is better.

[Reezekeys]

A chain is as strong as the weakest link. If you think an "older stage piano" sounds good over any particular sound system, then for you the "older" piano is not a weak link. For me, it would probably be â but I'm used to playing a computer-based virtual piano with multiple sample layers, release samples, pedal resonance and mechanical sounds, etc. â items not normally found on "older stage pianos." Years ago I got myself two QSC K8s and have been happy ever since. Most piano samples these days are in stereo and imo should be reproduced that way on a gig, at least for the performer if not the audience (there's a big difference of opinion here about this last point - whatever floats your boat is the final deciding factor so take my advice with a huge "IMO").

 

So in conclusion to my novella (sorry), sure, quality amplification can improve a digital piano's sound whether it's an older one or newer â but I would want all the pieces together: a keybed with a response that fits my playing dynamics, adjustable velocity curves, a quality digital piano with the "extras" I mentioned, and a punchy, clean set of two powered PA speakers with headroom to spare. These are all available at lower price points today than in the past. Hell, I got some mileage out of the free Korg piano on my old iPad - it was better (in some ways, not all) than some of the older stage pianos I've played.

[drawback]

I think a lot of keys players realize at some point that they can only get so far with guitar amps and most "keyboard amps". Their worst offense is that they color the sound. A self-powered PA unit (or two) is a different world -- it's all there, sound-wise.

I"ve been wondering what the fidelity differences are between the newer Motion Sound amps and powered PA cabinets. I had an early KP200S that sounded fat but not enough range, especially at the top end, and it ran out of clean tone on a loud stage. I haven"t heard the 500S or 610 but I"m sceptical that they"d compare sonically with even the lower end PPAs such as Alto, TurboSound, etc. but still a lot of you swear by them. I"d love to hear comments â I mean if there was some real world comparison anyone"s made.

[AnotherScott]

I didn't like the Motion sound KP200, but I liked the KP408S, and put it roughly on par with a pair of EV ZXa1.

[drawback]

I didn't like the Motion sound KP200, but I liked the KP408S, and put it roughly on par with a pair of EV ZXa1.

 

That says a lot!

[Stokely]

I've rarely used a keyboard amp since the 80s, when I had a Peavey KB300. Sounded great with synths, I had no piano sound to speak of.

 

Fast forward, and even many powered speakers sound iffy when it comes to piano. I am using in-ears at gigs when we supply the PA simply due to volume concerns (and the fact that I can monitor the band in stereo), but when I've used a QSC k10.2 (my band has a couple) for monitors everything sounds really good.

 

At home I'm still using a Crown power amp and KRK speakers I got in the mid-90s...still sound great! Not tons of low end as they are 8" speakers. I also got a pair of nice Sennheiser headphones from Massdrop and I use those more than the speakers.

[drawback]

I"ve been wondering what the fidelity differences are between the newer Motion Sound amps and powered PA cabinets.

 

Al did this awhile back. Maybe he could expound on the differences or his preference on gigs.

I did see this before but didn't give it a close listen. Obviously the KP-610S is harsher while the TT08-A provides a more balanced full tone. I don't know what can be done in EQ to match them up, but clearly the high end that I missed from my KP200 is there, and the tubbiness seems to be gone. I think for a gig the KP-610 would be my best choice, or perhaps the KP-408 (although the size of the speakers point to being less smooth than the 10s, just a guess).

[Noah DC]

My KP-612s sounds great with acoustic piano. Highly recommend those amps if you can find a good deal on a used or B stock. I"m no expert, but I would be very surprised if it did not sound much better than any variety of speaker tech from the '90s. I feel like the speaker options today are just way beyond so many of the older models folks often reference here - but again, I don"t have much direct experience outside of my Motion Sound and EV powered speaker.

[zxcvbnm098]

I"ve been wondering what the fidelity differences are between the newer Motion Sound amps and powered PA cabinets.

 

Al did this awhile back. Maybe he could expound on the differences or his preference on gigs.

I did see this before but didn't give it a close listen. Obviously the KP-610S is harsher while the TT08-A provides a more balanced full tone. I don't know what can be done in EQ to match them up, but clearly the high end that I missed from my KP200 is there, and the tubbiness seems to be gone. I think for a gig the KP-610 would be my best choice, or perhaps the KP-408 (although the size of the speakers point to being less smooth than the 10s, just a guess).

 

I think the "harsher" comment is a little, well, harsh to my ears; I think they both sound great in Al's video, but the TT's are a bit smoother..but they should be considering the price.

 

I have looked at both the 408 and the 610, but I think the 408 has an earlier amplifier that was in the KP-500, whereas the newer designed amp is used in the models that start with a 6. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I wish I could try them out side by side, or hear from someone that has. I'm pretty sure an amp with the 8's would be fine, but think that maybe the upgrade amplifier would be better fidelity?

 

If NAMM is happening, I'd hope they could find a way to make it out to show them if even in a suite. Or send them to Bryce's house to get a test going with those of us in SoCal?????

 

Bottom line for me though....for ease of setup, I'd prefer an amp if it delivers as these seem to.

[drawback]

I think the "harsher" comment is a little, well, harsh to my ears; I think they both sound great in Al's video, but the TT's are a bit smoother..but they should be considering the price.

 

I have looked at both the 408 and the 610, but I think the 408 has an earlier amplifier that was in the KP-500, whereas the newer designed amp is used in the models that start with a 6. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I wish I could try them out side by side, or hear from someone that has. I'm pretty sure an amp with the 8's would be fine, but think that maybe the upgrade amplifier would be better fidelity?

 

If NAMM is happening, I'd hope they could find a way to make it out to show them if even in a suite. Or send them to Bryce's house to get a test going with those of us in SoCal?????

 

Bottom line for me though....for ease of setup, I'd prefer an amp if it delivers as these seem to.

 

Perhaps I should have just said the TT"s were smoother, when trying to describe the difference? Anyway, yeah it would be great to compare the two Motion Sounds or in my case even demo one of them! There"s no presence in Canada these days. The only reference point I have is my old KP200S, long gone, and a trip to NAMM costs twice as much as the gear.

[Theo Verelst]

The disadvantage of more accurate amplification is much of the sound coloration and distortion, that takes precedence over digital audio and instrument limitations in normal use, when absent doesn't make place for wonderful sound, a high quality audio system faithfully producing modern instruments will not sound particularly sexy or exceedingly musically interesting without the help of additional production elements.

 

T