Vote For Lee!

[Corner Pocket]

Lee's lead has naroed by about 5 votes in the last hour.

 

Get on this people,...tell your friends.

 

Paul

[_Sweet Willie_]

What The...? leads Blues Bastard 28% to 27% right now. Third place is only at 11%. The lead is diminishing w/ 10 days left in the voting.

 

Vote, kids, vote!

 

Peace.

--SW

[Vegar]

LWhat the..? is in the lead with almost 400 votes. but it seems as if the other band also has a "cheat" solution

[aeon]

at the current vote rates, if this goes on for 10 more days, What The...? will most certainly be overtaken.

 

vote, vote and vote again!

 

scriptoid still running here!

 

cheers,

aeon

[Lee Flier]

Hey all!

 

I wasn't around this weekend but thanks for keeping the faith.

 

As of Friday night before they left the office, the Little Steven folks said that the sponsors pledged to fix the latest security hole. However, they said they wouldn't be able to do it until Tuesday (tomorrow) and that they would not reset the totals again (?!?!?!).

 

They may change their minds about that when they get in tomorrow morning and see the obvious disparities in the totals, which is really what we were trying to make them do anyway. So who really knows how it will pan out, but meanwhile, let's just keep those votes coming! You guys rule!

[big K]

for what it is worth , both sides seem to have found a solution....

 

this morning the vote differances where 376, and now they are 379.

 

Interesting to see what happens tomorrow.

[fantasticsound]

BTW - Has it occured to anyone else that the percentages are completely askew? Now that What The? and two other bands have virtually cornered the market on votes, it's easy to see the percentages don't add up to 100.

 

Just to check, I captured a screenshot of the entire list just after my vote page reloaded, then did the math.

 

There were 19767 total votes. Of those votes;

 

1. What The? had 37.2% vs. 28% according to the site.
   
2. Blues Bastard had 35.3% vs. 27%
   
3. Triple Thick had 14% vs. 10%
   
4. Repercussions had 3.4% vs. 2%
   
5. Bona Roba had 3.2% vs 2%
   
6. All others combined (all listed at 0% each) had 7%
   

I rounded up, so the total actually = 100.1%.

 

So there are other problems with the voting site than simple vote fraud.

[Kaz]

Originally posted by TheWewus:

posted by zzzzzzzzzz:

But that's not what any of this is about, is it? It's a popularity contest.

Damn....... you're sharp as a tack.

Of all the things I've said on this thread, that's what you choose to comment on?

 

And if you were sharp as a tack, you'd know that I said that sarcastically, referring to those who complain incessantly about the actual music business (or things like American Idol) as being just a popularity contest, and not about the music. People say it should be about the music, but when push comes to shove, even on the smallest level, it obviously isn't.

[Lee Flier]

I see. So you've never heard of "working for change within the system?" Just because you're willing to play the game up to a point that means you have no right to complain?

[Kaz]

Since I'm not too sharp, you're going to have to explain what your're saying a little more clearly.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by zzzzzzzzz:

This scene must be pretty healthy, don't know why anyone would complain, unless one simply wanted to get as famous as The Strokes or The White Stripes or The Hives, and wasn't.

Not sure I follow you here. Complain about what? And I don't necessarily agree that the scene is healthy.

 

If Clear Channel or malls or restaurants played nothing but this "real" rock, I'd get pretty sick of it pretty fast. Just my opinion. I don't think it "sucks" as a genre necessarily, just wouldn't want to listen to it all the time, and it's as samey as any other genre, if not more so.

I agree! I would NOT want to hear nothing but this kind of music everywhere I went. And that is the main point of my complaint about Clear Channel et al - not even so much that they mostly play music that I think sucks (I do think that, but that's only a matter of personal taste), but that they monopolize the media to such a degree that nothing else can really be heard except in the extreme underground. Plus satellite radio and some other avenues are starting to make inroads, which is cool. But I would think it was a monopoly even if they only played stuff that I liked. I just have a basic problem with one company having that much control over what is heard and promoted, and having it be such a narrow focus.

 

Also, I should point out that at least judging by what I heard in Miami, the songs you hear from the 28 bands on the web site don't necessarily represent everything they sound like. Most of us just picked the one track that we figured would be likely to get us chosen for the competition. Hearing a bigger sampling of recordings or seeing the bands perform gives you a much better idea what they are really about, and frankly some bands didn't sound at all like what their demo sounded like.

[Kaz]

Not sure I follow you here. Complain about what? And I don't necessarily agree that the scene is healthy.

Complain about everything, as if there is no outlet for doing what you want to do. Not only are there garage bands at the top (Jet, Strokes, and so on), but there are tons of bands all around the country. Why throw stones at other genres, as if they are trying to keep "real" rock out. Out of what? What more do you need?

Clear Channel et al - not even so much that they mostly play music that I think sucks (I do think that, but that's only a matter of personal taste), but that they monopolize the media to such a degree that nothing else can really be heard except in the extreme underground.

I agree with the dangers or the downsides or possible illegality of someone or something having a monopoly, but again, to say that nothing else can be heard except in the extreme underground seems like a great exaggeration to me.

 

the songs you hear from the 28 bands on the web site don't necessarily represent everything they sound like.

Well, that's the contest, not a lot I or anyone listening and playing fairly can do about that.

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

I see. So you've never heard of "working for change within the system?" Just because you're willing to play the game up to a point that means you have no right to complain?

Maybe what you're saying is, "I'm going to cheat now, get into the system, and then fix things up from within later."

 

Is that what you're saying?

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by zzzzzzzzz:

Complain about everything, as if there is no outlet for doing what you want to do. Not only are there garage bands at the top (Jet, Strokes, and so on), but there are tons of bands all around the country. Why throw stones at other genres, as if they are trying to keep "real" rock out. Out of what? What more do you need?

I would like to see a healthier independent scene (not just for "garage rock" but in general). Right now we're at a point where for the most part, either you have to sign with a mega-conglomerate or be very much underground. It's not at all as easy as it was 20 years ago to make a decent living from being a hard working touring band and selling 100,000 records through an independent label. I think both the musicians and the fans suffer because this "middle class" has shrunk so much.

 

I agree with the dangers or the downsides or possible illegality of someone or something having a monopoly, but again, to say that nothing else can be heard except in the extreme underground seems like a great exaggeration to me.

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that then, cuz I don't see much in between right now, and most people I know who actually work in the industry agree.

[Kaz]

I just have a basic problem with one company having that much control over what is heard and promoted, and having it be such a narrow focus.

Regarding a narrow focus:

 

50 cent

Britney

Nickelback

Jet

Josh Groban (I think that's his name)

Dave Matthews

 

6 off the top of my head. Do these sound anything alike in any way? How is this a narrow focus?

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by zzzzzzzzz:

Maybe what you're saying is, "I'm going to cheat now, get into the system, and then fix things up from within later."

 

Is that what you're saying?

LOL... in this case, not really, although there are people who do that and more power to 'em.

 

In this particular case, nearly everyone concerned knows the popularity contest aspect of things is stupid, and so are trying to subvert it. The contest was supposed to be about the music, and it HAS been for the most part. But this whole "American Idol" thing is something that the bands think is dumb, and the judges think is dumb, it was the sponsors who wanted it done this way.

 

However, as of right now this remains the only opportunity to get to a point (the final contest in NY) where once again we CAN be judged based on the music. So therefore, we are playing the game. That doesn't mean we like it, we condone it, or we have no right to complain about it. We're not even "cheating" considering all the bands plus the judges have shared what we are doing between us. In fact I very much admire Little Steven's organization for sticking their necks out and telling the sponsors that this sucks, and for encouraging the bands to do the same. This doesn't even mean we hate the sponsors or anything, I think they meant well, but they don't get what it's about and we are making the effort to let them know.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by zzzzzzzzz:

I just have a basic problem with one company having that much control over what is heard and promoted, and having it be such a narrow focus.

Regarding a narrow focus:

 

50 cent

Britney

Nickelback

Jet

Josh Groban (I think that's his name)

Dave Matthews

 

6 off the top of my head. Do these sound anything alike in any way? How is this a narrow focus?

Hey, why don't we make this a new thread? This could actually be an interesting discussion that folks outside the scope of this thread might want to participate in.

 

I just made it a new thread called "Is there really a monopoly in the music biz?"

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

That doesn't mean we like it, we condone it, or we have no right to complain about it. We're not even "cheating" considering all the bands plus the judges have shared what we are doing between us.

23 of the bands have 0%!! Only 3 appear to be cheating.

 

From what I've seen, most here seem to enjoy rigging the vote, only one or two have expressed even a hint that it might be lame to do. You yourself said it was fun, and you kept calling it a "spoof" as opposed to cheating. That's something Bush would say.

 

As far as having a right complain about it, sure you have a right, I'm sure not saying otherwise.

 

But when the things you do and the things you say don't match up so well, you lose all credibility, from cheating in a contest to signing with a Donut chain.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by zzzzzzzzz:

From what I've seen, most here seem to enjoy rigging the vote, only one or two have expressed even a hint that it might be lame to do. You yourself said it was fun, and you kept calling it a "spoof" as opposed to cheating. That's something Bush would say.

I guess you're not familiar with the term "spoof" as it is used by computer types. My fault, not yours, for using a term that probably isn't generally known, but it's not a euphemistic term in any way. "Spoof" IS a term that is used to describe a type of cheating - specifically, fooling a web site into thinking you're a legitimate human user when you're not, and/or fooling users into thinking they're at one web site when they're actually at a different one.

 

People often use spoofing to commit crimes such as defrauding others of money, so like I said, there was certainly no intent on my part to use it as a kinder, gentler term.

 

And sure, we're having fun! It's not often you can cheat and have it be completely transparent to all involved. The whole thing is ridiculous and that oughta be obvious.

 

As far as having a right complain about it, sure you have a right, I'm sure not saying otherwise.

 

But when the things you do and the things you say don't match up so well, you lose all credibility, from cheating in a contest to signing with a Donut chain.

OK, so where is all my supposed lost credibility? The only person I appear to have lost any credibility with is you. I wonder why that is?

[antimatter]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

Shut the phuck Up!

 

We'd vote for you too!

 

IFFFFFFFFFFFF you deserved it.

[nursers]

And don't forget, Jet is an aussie band

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

The only person I appear to have lost any credibility with is you. I wonder why that is?

Ummm, you tell me.

[Kaz]

Originally posted by antimatter:

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

Shut the phuck Up!

 

Okay.

[Gulliver]

 

We'd vote for you too!

 

IFFFFFFFFFFFF you deserved it.

Hm... I thought music matters on these boards not just "we would vote for you depending on how much we like you (you, not your music!)".

[Philip OKeefe]

Of course music matters. But so do personalities. Lee is a well respected and beloved member of our community, who has repeatedly gone above and beyond the call of duty in helping many other people. That tends to generate a lot of support for her when she (very rarely) asks for our support and help.

 

And FWIW, I happen to like Lee's band.

[Philip OKeefe]

And because Lee and I have a lot of musical "common ground," and because I'm a fan of the band, I don't feel the least bit guilty about voting for them... but of course, that's a personal decision on everyone's part. If What The...? isn't anyone's cup of java, you don't need to feel obligated to vote for them.

 

It's obvious that the bands have been "cheating" / "spoofing" (in the technogeek sense of the word) throughout the voting process. That has been called to the attention of the judges. Everyone's aware of it. It's almost like it's an accepted part of the game at this point. And if anyone wants to have a chance of winning, they could do the same exact thing. It's all about who can best motivate their fan base - either by getting them to vote, or run scripts, or whatever.

 

I really fail to see where the controversy is here. If anyone's uncomfortable with it, you don't need to feel obligated to participate.

[Wewus432]

Just to make things fair I hacked into a bunch of computers in Japan, and I'm running scripts through them, for all the other bands.

 

It just feels like the right thing to do.

[ani]

Whoa... Blues Bastard is trying really hard to close the gap. Lee's band is at 29% and Blues Bastard is knocking hard on the back door with 28%.

 

Get your votes in folks... I've been getting mine in.

[Kaz]

Not really much of a controversy, but...

 

if this community is a smaller version of the big community...

 

it's my feeling that if the names were changed, and the music were changed, people would be much less inclined to approve of this cheating or spoofing or whatever you want to call it.

 

If it's okay to win at all costs for a friend or a personality on this level, then why is not okay for the big guys to do the same? Where do you draw the line.

 

I probably wouldn't have said anything if Lee herself was not so vocal about her beliefs.

 

On the one hand, how is a band supposed to get what they deserve based on their music, if Clear Channel or the record companies or the public or all the other manipulators of the music industry don't play fair. Well how does a band who doesn't have a lot of friends who know how to rig computer votes get what they deserve in this contest? Isn't this the exact same thing?

 

What is all this bullshit about how it should be about the music? It's not, and it rarely ever is just about the music. How can someone say it's about the music, and then use a computer scipt to cheat? I just don't get that at all. And I would think that the community here would agree if they were watching this on TV, or if it turned out Britney had rigged some voting system, or her record company did or something. Everyone would be all over it, saying "see, the music industry is bullshit, and us "real" musicians can't get a break!!!"

 

Also, Lee made a big deal about fast food and McDonald's and the evil and power they possess over the health and well being of kids of all ages. But now she's signing away rights to Dunkin Dounts?! Hmmm.

 

She also was knocking Nickelback and today's popular music in general, and the record companies for putting pressure on bands to put out singles that sound very similar. Well I could barely tell the difference between many of these bands in this contest. Talk about sounding the same!

 

Now if Lee had said, "well there's a contest for garage bands, gee I'd like to be in it, but it's sponsored by Dunkin Dounts, so I'm going to pass"

I'd think, well she's standing by her principles.

 

And if she had said, "this contest doesn't seem fair, a couple bands are cheating, but I'm not going to, that's the sort of thing that ruins the music, I'm just going to notify the people putting the contest on", I'd think, well she's standing by her principles.

 

It just all seems very hypocritical to me. I'm not condemning anyone here. Just pointing it out.

 

I really fail to see where the controversy is here. If anyone's uncomfortable with it, you don't need to feel obligated to participate.

True. I suppose Clear Channel and the record companies could say the same thing.

[Gulliver]

Originally posted by zzzzzzzzz:

... Well I could barely tell the difference between many of these bands in this contest. Talk about sounding the same!

Ditto!