Keith Emerson

[jerrythek]

For me, I thought many of the live tempos were too fast as the band progressed. Few would ever say that Carl had a groove, or deep pocket, but at those crazy fast tempos the songs could never sit well.

 

Jerry

 

[Atomicsynth]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

 

It could even be viewed as a "correction" since previous live versions were so much faster than their studio counterparts.

 

I was at an ELP concert in the 70s at Madison Square Garden where my seats were close, but off to the side  and actually behind the front of the stage. I was able to see Greg Lake's mouth when he turned around, faced Carl Palmer and very clearly and emphatically mouthed, " SLOW DOWN!!!"

 

Perhaps one advantage to playing to a drum machine...

Palmer rushes. He did it on his ELP Legacy thing too. I was 8 feet from him (stage front table) at Rams Head Onstage in Annapolis.

 

The drum machine programming on the Emerson Lake tour was terrible, re-mentioning.

 

I'm not at all surprised Greg Lake told Palmer to slow down. Probably happened a lot.

 

Hoedown and Tarkus were insanely fast. Emerson's choice or Palmer? Who knows....

 

Emerson liked to play fast and was firing on all cylinders on the Brain Salad tour, but Palmer rushed awkwardly at times on all ELP tours I attended. (He's not my favorite drummer in the least).

 

In contrast , Cozy Powell was tempo steady on the Emerson Lake and Powell tour.

 

And regarding Carl Palmer, he said a number of critical things about ELP's final performance, headlining the High Voltage Festival. He felt the group wasn't up to standard for ELP to continue any longer. 

 

The least significant member. My opinion.

 

 

[ksoper]

5 hours ago, Atomicsynth said:

Did that Q&A take up a lot of the show? 

 

 

I don't remember it taking up terribly much time. There were lengthy intros but again, it didn't seem overly inappropriate. The sound was fantastic in the Indy theater and they truly seemed to be enjoying themselves. Old friends practicing for their last gig. 

[Ivan May]

Keith also used the Moog Apollo synth on Brain Salad Surgery, which was the first polyphonic synthesizer ever made. It was a precursor to the Polymoog that Moog would put out later in the decade.

[Atomicsynth]

43 minutes ago, IMMusicRulz said:

Keith also used the Moog Apollo synth on Brain Salad Surgery, which was the first polyphonic synthesizer ever made. It was a precursor to the Polymoog that Moog would put out later in the decade.

Yeah, he used it on "Benny The Bouncer". 

[Atomicsynth]

3 hours ago, ksoper said:

I don't remember it taking up terribly much time. There were lengthy intros but again, it didn't seem overly inappropriate. The sound was fantastic in the Indy theater and they truly seemed to be enjoying themselves. Old friends practicing for their last gig. 

That's great! I looked at audience videos and there were some low wattage questions asked. It all seemed like ego filler to me, but I could well have had a different experience had I been there.

[Atomicsynth]

Further regarding the Brain Salad Surgery tour, I saw it at the Capital Centre in Largo MD (venue since demolished).

 

The Quad PA was causing bounceback, throwing them out of time. They ended up finally turning off the back speakers.

 

Adding : Emerson's extended Aquatarkus solo as captured on the Welcome Back My Friends live album from that tour is, I think, the greatest synth solo Keith Emerson ever played! The C3 at the climactic point took it to beyond!

 

His C3 was hot-rodded by Al Goff. Beefed up percussion, modified preamp and Leslies. Keith referred to it as "tacky and spitty".

 

His later C3 was cleaner, regrettably. That first organ sounded better than any Hammond I've ever heard.

 

His Modular had 901 series oscillators, which were prone to drifting but had a superior sound vs Moog 921 VCO's  (which held tune much better).

[AnotherScott]

48 minutes ago, Atomicsynth said:

His C3 was hot-rodded by Al Goff. Beefed up percussion, modified preamp and Leslies. Keith referred to it as "tacky and spitty".

 

His later C3 was cleaner, regrettably. That first organ sounded better than any Hammond I've ever heard.

If KE had trouble finding actual C3s that sounded just the way he wanted, maybe it's not surprising that it's tough to get some of these sounds out of the clones!

[Motif88]

1 hour ago, Atomicsynth said:

Further regarding the Brain Salad Surgery tour, I saw it at the Capital Centre in Largo MD (venue since demolished).

 

The Quad PA was causing bounceback, throwing them out of time. They ended up finally turning off the back speakers.

 

Adding : Emerson's extended Aquatarkus solo as captured on the Welcome Back My Friends live album from that tour is, I think, the greatest synth solo Keith Emerson ever played! The C3 at the climactic point took it to beyond!

 

His C3 was hot-rodded by Al Goff. Beefed up percussion, modified preamp and Leslies. Keith referred to it as "tacky and spitty".

 

His later C3 was cleaner, regrettably. That first organ sounded better than any Hammond I've ever heard.

 

His Modular had 901 series oscillators, which were prone to drifting but had a superior sound vs Moog 921 VCO's  (which held tune much better).

 

Thank for reminding me of the “Welcome Back” version of Aquatarkus. I hadn’t listened to it years..

[Atomicsynth]

1 hour ago, Motif88 said:

 

Thank for reminding me of the “Welcome Back” version of Aquatarkus. I hadn’t listened to it years..

He built that long solo so meticulously. The big burst of feedback and then it starts with Lake and Palmer's quarter note triplet ostinato while Keith is on the drone oscillators, then playing The Minotaur in sine wave on top, then improvises Minotaur extended. He eventually goes to LFO vibrato on the now ominous sounding minor third interval he transitions with and builds into those high note glides saturated with LFO. Then suddenly the wide open filter and chromatic descent (patching to his brass sound) Reverb added in and then he sets up the climax when he brings in his C3, playing those almost unidentifiable (because the organ is so crazy overdriven) modal chords that are so Keith Emerson. Then he's fragmenting the Aquatarkus theme against those wild chords and finally envelope generator/sample hold diving pitch against rising chromatic motion and when it's finally all it can be he suddenly jumps back with Greg and Carl to the Organ/Synth Tarkus recapitulation and then those big grand pause repeated dissonant chords, setting up his pre-ending that resolves to upper and lower suspensions which introduce the huge brass fanfare ending derived yet again from the Tarkus theme. An absolutely stunning exhibition and is but one defining moment of why he remains the greatest rock keyboardist now and for all time. 

 

And after that exhausting Tarkus display, the very next song is Take A Pebble with solo extended, even including a jazz trio section before returning to the song. Total stamina.

 

I'm also linking the massive Keith Emerson quote list compiled by ELP Digest.

 

https://www.brain-salad.com/Emerson/quote-list.txt

[jerrythek]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

If KE had trouble finding actual C3s that sounded just the way he wanted, maybe it's not surprising that it's tough to get some of these sounds out of the clones!

Keith continued playing a Goff-modified C3 through his whole career. It sounded great, plenty of spit and strong percussion when needed. Not sure why Atomicsynth is saying it was cleaner…

 

???

[Atomicsynth]

10 hours ago, jerrythek said:

Keith continued playing a Goff-modified C3 through his whole career. It sounded great, plenty of spit and strong percussion when needed. Not sure why Atomicsynth is saying it was cleaner…

 

???

 I read an interview long back describing the C3 as being rebuilt, chopped and ending up with a somewhat cleaner tone prior to the Black Moon tour.

 

The organ does sound cleaner on the live tracks from the "Then and Now" album.

 

I also talked with his tech during backstage aftershow at Merriweather Post Pavillion - Black Moon tour about Keith's equipment.

 

His former stacks of 122's were slimmed down to two cabinets, built into a custom road case with mics now placed offstage, often in a dedicated room.

 

Maybe that had something to do with it?

 

I found this further detailed information about the organ (credit rrsignalguy) on another site:

 

"The C-3 is connected to 2 GOFF Professional Leslie 122’s mounted in a special double road case. In 2019 this custom rig was sold in a Julien auction to EMEAPP. The C-3 cost $80K, the Leslie’s $18K, plus buyer’s premium so the total cost was about $125K plus shipping, making this easily the most expensive classic (tonewheel) Hammond Organ ever sold. The C-3 has fully adjustable Chorus / Vibrato that provides a range from straight organ sound all the way through a Wurlitzer heavy tremolo / rotary sound. It has a fully adjustable Percussion Booster that ranges from no percussion through 4X stock percussion max volume, and an adjustable high-gain spring reverb that ranges from no reverb through about 5-7 seconds reverb delay at high volume. The organ has a rebuilt AO-28 organ tube preamp with bass boost and other modifications, rebuilt tonewheel generator with hand-selected filter capacitors, rebuilt vibrato line box, generator shock mount kit, and other mods"

 

[jerrythek]

All good info… I am good friends with the tech you mention speaking to… Will Alexander. And I’ve stood by those Leslie’s in the road cases. Plenty of key click, spit and grind. But perhaps it was a bit cleaner… I can’t say for sure. I just know it was still plenty dirty, grindy and what other adjectives you care to use. No doubt you are a deep fan and well informed, I am not questioning your appreciation and details. We share that!

 

Jerry

[jerrythek]

You might enjoy these remembrances:

 

https://www.musicradar.com/news/keith-emerson-tributes-keyboards-knives-hendrix

[Atomicsynth]

7 hours ago, jerrythek said:

All good info… I am good friends with the tech you mention speaking to… Will Alexander. And I’ve stood by those Leslie’s in the road cases. Plenty of key click, spit and grind. But perhaps it was a bit cleaner… I can’t say for sure. I just know it was still plenty dirty, grindy and what other adjectives you care to use. No doubt you are a deep fan and well informed, I am not questioning your appreciation and details. We share that!

 

Jerry

Very cool!! I don't know the name of Keith's on road tech that night but I didn't see Will Alexander. (Which doesn't mean he wasn't there).

 

At Birchmere for the KE band it was Keith Wechler (who I never met) doing FOH.

 

I never once stood by the Leslies as you did. I did notice that night during the show (Black Moon tour) that Keith seemed to be using more high speed setting on them then I ever heard before (usually it was Chorale most of the time).

 

But it was always an overwhelming experience seeing ELP live so it was hard to analyze anything during the show.

 

No recording ever really captured what ELP really sounded like live, especially Greg Lake's bass with those huge subs onstage as part of his amps. Deepest bass I ever heard.

 

The organ spit plenty at times during KE band though Marc Bonilla's guitar made the normal Keith presence in the mix different.

 

His right hand was affected then by the dystonia and though he played great, I saw him shaking out his hand at times when I guess it cramped up. It was surely helpful to him to have Marc so he didn't have to carry everything, as he did in ELP.

 

I think if the organ sounded somewhat different to me, it was due to the Leslie stacks and the Hiwatts being gone. He had those amps integrated in with those Leslies and not just for the L100 knife thing at Brain Salad.

 

I've really felt the whole gamut of emotions I'd forgotten flood back during this thread.

 

(I used to play Hoedown back in 2010 when I did a couple of solo live shows (bass and drums scored for sampler). I haven't played it in a long time and now and then when I'd tell myself I should re-learn it, I'd sometimes  start to practice it only to become very sad and then just leave it be for another day that hasn't come yet)...

 

Added: Thank you for sharing that great article, Jerry!

 

Further add :

 

I'm now concluding that the present day organ has plenty of drive, spit and heavy beautiful percussion after watching the incredible Rachel Flowers do Tarkus at Emeapp.