Valente Electric Piano

[jverghese]

Interestingly, the Valente uses a Fatar action, probably the omnipresent TP100. I wonder if this is this the first electro-mechanical keyboard to do so.

[ElmerJFudd]

Interesting - can you confirm this?

 

http://fatar.com/Disegni%20Meccanici/TP100LR-dis.jpg

 

If so, it"s going to feel very different from other TP-100 implementations - because he must have built an adapter to connect his hammer mechanism where the weights on the TP-100 are. I guess we"ll hear over time how an action that was designed for a velocity sensor stands up to extended physical labor.

[jverghese]

It's just an observation made based on one of the promotional videos. You can see the bare

at one point, and it looks very much like a TP100. Also, at the end of the video there is the "

" logo.

 

Yes, I think the feel will be quite different compared to the standard TP100, as there is a real vibrating sound source behind. For what it's worth, I've never had anything against the TP100 anyway. It feels really good in the Crumar Seven, as well as the Waldorf Zarenbourg. For some reason, the Nords that feature the TP100 aren't that great.

[MAJUSCULE]

Am I the only one that found that video completely laughable? I mean, come on. They have a Rhodes and a Wurly (and a grand) right there. At least in the much-maligned Neon Vines studio tour video, she's pretty straight up about it being some level of an advertisement.

 

But then again, I've got a fairly strong anti-Conte bias.

[MathOfInsects]

But then again, I've got a fairly strong anti-Conte bias.

 

Oh man, I thought I was the only one, and didn't want to create one of my periodic brush fires by saying it out loud.

[Adan]

Am I the only one that found that video completely laughable? I mean, come on. They have a Rhodes and a Wurly (and a grand) right there. At least in the much-maligned Neon Vines studio tour video, she's pretty straight up about it being some level of an advertisement.

 

But then again, I've got a fairly strong anti-Conte bias.

 

Conte uses a lot of different keyboard configurations. Scary pocket videos are not meant to be classics people will listen to for generations, so it's not surprising he'd use a Valente or anything else. Interesting though that the Valente really doesn't cut through that mix, it's a barely audible part of the foundation. Was that deliberate, or is it indicative of a limitation of the instrument? Hard to guess. A wurly would have cut through better, but might also have occupied too much the same frequencies as Larry's keyboard licks.

 

Scary Pockets . . . I enjoy almost everything I hear, but I've rarely listened to anything more than once. Funk-flavored vintage popcorn. At a click a pop, the price is certainly right.

[Baggypants]

What would be the motivation though? They're well known for being a popular band, not product endorsement. At this point Valente need their sincereity more than Pomplamoose need a free keyboard. A cynic would look at Greg Phillinganes promo video of Trillian and argue he's just being paid to be there and say nice things. And yet that video hasn't garnered the same response.

[MAJUSCULE]

I guess I find Greg's demos more genuine? Those are moments of instant nostalgia "Wow, you got the sound on this software exactly right, so that I can recall this excellent record that I played on and everyone knows and loves". I found this one more like "Wow, they have a pedal thing? Oh my god, a real pedal, holy shit!!!". Or maybe Greg's just a better actor.

 

But, yeah, YMMV. I wish Valente nothing but the best, but the sound doesn't really validate the price to the average buyer IMNSHO. Vintage Vibe at least have the whole restoration/repair/parts supplier side of their business.

 

And yes, if I haven't gone on record with this before, I will now: Jack Conte is almost always the worst part of whatever musical project he's a part of. Maybe that's a credit to him for getting himself into rooms with better musicians, but from a listener's perspective...

[CowboyNQ]

To be fair Eric I think they were grooving on the fact the pedal was wooden - not that it existed...heheh.

[MAJUSCULE]

Mmm... they got to the wood afterwards lol. Same reaction to the hammers (which I assume they already knew about? Or am I just being mean?). Is the tone worth the instant reaction? Hard to know from the video, I guess. Again, not that the product is bad or whatever, it might be really cool to have a Wurly-type sound with a more grand-like action, but I dunno. Maybe I just need to get off the Internet and get back to work.

[dazzjazz]

I think it sounds very interesting and funky. Good price too!

[MAJUSCULE]

They are running a 20% off Xmas sale right now, makes it a little more palatable. That's basically $600 off, even though I imagine that's USD, so not quite what I would end up paying.

 

Actually, looking into it, it seems that they only ship to the US and France.

[Doerfler]

They are running a 20% off Xmas sale right now, makes it a little more palatable. That's basically $600 off, even though I imagine that's USD, so not quite what I would end up paying.

 

Actually, looking into it, it seems that they only ship to the US and France.

 

legs and case not included. Shipping prices to lower 48 are excellent.

[Josh Paxton]

I don't see any details about the legs and case, other than the mention that they're not included. Is there a link I'm missing?

[dazzjazz]

I don't see any details about the legs and case, other than the mention that they're not included. Is there a link I'm missing?

 

Not that I can see. I"m accessing the site on my phone so maybe that"s why?

[Adan]

I'd like to hear the Valente in a guitar band driven hard through a tube amp. I think it could be great there.

 

I've been very tempted to buy one. The 20% discount almost pushed me over the edge, but then a week ago my wife and I decided we're going to relocate to another state. Buying an expensive instrument right before reshuffling your entire life doesn't seem prudent -- which is another way of saying I'd do it in a heartbeat if I thought my wife wouldn't kill me for the insurance money.

 

The moving thing aside, the major hesitate I feel is just wondering whether Valente will be successful enough to survive into the future so that parts and expertise are available. So there's that concern of not wanting to be left with a stranded product.

 

On the other hand, if people don't support a product like this, then we'll continue to live in a world of only Yamaha CP-whatevers. Maybe I'm a fool but I've often sent my money to companies in part because doing so is consistent with my vision of the world I want to live in. The Vintage Vibe has certainly worked out well. That first electric motorcycle not as much. You win some, you lose some.

[bjosko]

I agreed with Adan here. The last video turned me over to the believers here, but demanded on parts, and an european dealer.

I could not figure out exactly how the tines was made, but if not more solid than in my old and long gone Wurly, I would be afraid that could be an issue.

Except from that, a beautiful made piano.

[mvanmanen]

I'd like to hear the Valente in a guitar band driven hard through a tube amp. I think it could be great there.

 

I've been very tempted to buy one. The 20% discount almost pushed me over the edge, but then a week ago my wife and I decided we're going to relocate to another state. Buying an expensive instrument right before reshuffling your entire life doesn't seem prudent -- which is another way of saying I'd do it in a heartbeat if I thought my wife wouldn't kill me for the insurance money.

 

The moving thing aside, the major hesitate I feel is just wondering whether Valente will be successful enough to survive into the future so that parts and expertise are available. So there's that concern of not wanting to be left with a stranded product.

 

On the other hand, if people don't support a product like this, then we'll continue to live in a world of only Yamaha CP-whatevers. Maybe I'm a fool but I've often sent my money to companies in part because doing so is consistent with my vision of the world I want to live in. The Vintage Vibe has certainly worked out well. That first electric motorcycle not as much. You win some, you lose some.

 

I have quite a few electromechanical keyboards that I have restored to probably better then new condition. My rhodes, clavinet, and wurlitzer get the majority of play for their dynamics, tone, sustain, etc. My pianets are super cool but honestly get very little play in comparison. Especially the Pianet T. It has its charms, and I would never sell it. But it's just not as satisfying to play as a well set-up rhodes or wurlitzer. I would love to support a company like Valente but still worry that the fundamental action and tone is just not there. Hopefully I am wrong. It is concerning there are so few high-resolution recordings.

[Adan]

 

I have quite a few electromechanical keyboards that I have restored to probably better then new condition. My rhodes, clavinet, and wurlitzer get the majority of play for their dynamics, tone, sustain, etc. My pianets are super cool but honestly get very little play in comparison. Especially the Pianet T. It has its charms, and I would never sell it. But it's just not as satisfying to play as a well set-up rhodes or wurlitzer. I would love to support a company like Valente but still worry that the fundamental action and tone is just not there. Hopefully I am wrong. It is concerning there are so few high-resolution recordings.

 

I get what you're saying. But I think there's a good argument to be made in favor of a 41 lb electromechanical instrument, especially if it's low maintenance (which, granted, we don't know). The Valente's tone isn't what I hoped it would be but damn, wouldn't it be great to gig with a real keyboard again, my bad back notwithstanding. That's the attraction for me.

 

Anyway, my money's safe for now. I'll have to let others wade in as early adopters.

[dazzjazz]

I"m thinking about getting one. As mentioned above, it would be refreshing to gig with a real instrument again.

The price is good and we need new companies like Valente and Vintage Vibe (which I definitely can"t afford).

If I can sell a Leslie, I"ll be an early adopter for sure.

[MathOfInsects]

Can of worms alert, but is it OK to ask what makes this 'electrically enhanced version of a previously acoustic-only instrument (aka the piano)' any more 'real' than a 'fully electrical version of this same instrument'? Is it that you can"t hear the result of the key-strike on the latter, without amplification? (Honest question.)

[Josh Paxton]

Can of worms alert, but is it OK to ask what makes this 'electrically enhanced version of a previously acoustic-only instrument (aka the piano)' any more 'real' than a 'fully electrical version of this same instrument'? Is it that you can"t hear the result of the key-strike on the latter, without amplification? (Honest question.)

 

In the boxes that my particular brain has built around such things, there's a definite distinction between an instrument where the act of striking a key produces a physical vibration, and one where it results in a coded instruction that basically translates into "Hey computer, start playing THIS recording now." Of course there are points between those two extremes â tonewheels, analog synthesis, physical modeling, etc. But for the purposes of what's being discussed here, it pretty much applies.

[MathOfInsects]

In the boxes that my particular brain has built around such things, there's a definite distinction between an instrument where the act of striking a key produces a physical vibration, and one where it results in a coded instruction that basically translates into "Hey computer, start playing THIS recording now." Of course there are points between those two extremes â tonewheels, analog synthesis, physical modeling, etc. But for the purposes of what's being discussed here, it pretty much applies.

 

Pure curiosity--this is not a set-up for some kind of Perry Mason "gotcha," just an interest in people's relationships with hidden agency: If that vibration that was triggered were inside a case that did not let you hear it without amplification, would that still be "real," or do you need the auditory aspect?

[Morrissey]

In the boxes that my particular brain has built around such things, there's a definite distinction between an instrument where the act of striking a key produces a physical vibration, and one where it results in a coded instruction that basically translates into "Hey computer, start playing THIS recording now." Of course there are points between those two extremes â tonewheels, analog synthesis, physical modeling, etc. But for the purposes of what's being discussed here, it pretty much applies.

 

Pure curiosity--this is not a set-up for some kind of Perry Mason "gotcha," just an interest in people's relationships with hidden agency: If that vibration that was triggered were inside a case that did not let you hear it without amplification, would that still be "real," or do you need the auditory aspect?

 

 

For me, I need to hear it unamplified. It is a visceral relationship in the same ballpark as strumming an unplugged electric guitar -- the instrument resonates with me (both meanings intended) as it makes its meager volume on its own and also foreshadows what it will be when properly amplified. And there is the ever-present invitation to further interact with the physicality of the instrument -- take the top off the Rhodes and mute the tines with your left hand, add the whammy bar mod to the Clav, etc.

[Morrissey]

 

I get what you're saying. But I think there's a good argument to be made in favor of a 41 lb electromechanical instrument, especially if it's low maintenance (which, granted, we don't know). The Valente's tone isn't what I hoped it would be but damn, wouldn't it be great to gig with a real keyboard again, my bad back notwithstanding. That's the attraction for me.

 

 

This instrument may not be the Holy Grail but I love how we're rooting for Valente, Vintage Vibe, etc.

[Adan]

The way I'd put it is, no matter how many layers are sampled or how elaborate the modeling, and no matter how many sensors are in the keyboard, the responsiveness under your fingers will never be like true electromechanical. That finger to ear feedback means, for at least players some of the time, even a mediocre electromechanical keyboard can be more inspiring that the best digital. That's my feeling, and I think in feeling that way I'm part of a pretty large club.

[MathOfInsects]

That finger to ear feedback means, for at least players some of the time, even a mediocre electromechanical keyboard can be more inspiring that the best digital. That's my feeling, and I think in feeling that way I'm part of a pretty large club.

 

I understand what you're saying. What prompted me to ask this was a couple of posts in a row talking about gigging with this (finally with a "real" keyboard), and I'm curious where the "finger to ear" continuum falls in that context. You'd be playing in an environment where you couldn't hear the acoustic element at all; your two sound sources would be either a little or a lot downstream (stage amp and stage monitor). I'm just curious what aspect of the "real" keyboard would be aspirational in that context. Is it the knowledge of the mechanics at play, or something else?

 

Again, this is not the "who cares, it's all mic'd anyway??" thing--or not in that sense, anyway. It's me recognizing that people DO care in spite of that, and wanting to dive into the aspects that might explain why.

[Adan]

That finger to ear feedback means, for at least players some of the time, even a mediocre electromechanical keyboard can be more inspiring that the best digital. That's my feeling, and I think in feeling that way I'm part of a pretty large club.

 

I understand what you're saying. What prompted me to ask this was a couple of posts in a row talking about gigging with this (finally with a "real" keyboard), and I'm curious where the "finger to ear" continuum falls in that context. You'd be playing in an environment where you couldn't hear the acoustic element at all; your two sound sources would be either a little or a lot downstream (stage amp and stage monitor). I'm just curious what aspect of the "real" keyboard would be aspirational in that context. Is it the knowledge of the mechanics at play, or something else?

 

.

 

Not presuming to speak for others, but for myself, it's not a state of knowledge, it's bio-feedback pure and simple. If you posit a situation in which that bio-feedback loop is severed, for instance, through inadequate monitoring, then I suppose in theory the inspirational advantages of electromechanical diminish or disappear. I'd have to test that theory before I bought into it. I think I'd rather put the effort into having good monitoring.

 

Like a lot of peeps on this forum who are of a certain age, I was playing and gigging with electromechanical for a long time before digital became the norm. So my lifetime of playing experience has been my comparative laboratory.

 

Anyway, the point of my last few posts is that a "meh" electromechanical keyboard could still make for a pretty cool gigging experience, especially if it's truly portable so that the physical toll doesn't detract from the experience.

 

A date to the prom is still a date to the prom even if it isn't the gal of your choice. Especially if she's truly portable. (uh oh)

[Threadslayer]

 

Anyway, the point of my last few posts is that a "meh" electromechanical keyboard could still make for a pretty cool gigging experience...

This goes to the point that I told myself I wasn't going to raise, but how exactly do you envision using this keyboard on a gig? As the primary or only instrument?

really? To me the sound is pretty underwhelming and "meh". Watching the videos, I'm reminded of the notion that a good musician can find a way to make music on anything. But.. should he have to?

I applaud the maker's entrepreneurialism, and dedication to his craft, and also get the point about organic biofeedback from the mechanical linkage, but still. Doesn't the sound have to deliver too?

[KuruPrionz]

Can of worms alert, but is it OK to ask what makes this 'electrically enhanced version of a previously acoustic-only instrument (aka the piano)' any more 'real' than a 'fully electrical version of this same instrument'? Is it that you can"t hear the result of the key-strike on the latter, without amplification? (Honest question.)

 

 

Sideswipe perhaps but on topic. There is simply something about actual vibrating elements that is compelling. The response is different, the sympathetic resonance is different. I've chosen guitar (or it has chosen me?) as my primary instrument because my fingers actually touch the component that IS the sound.

 

Maybe OT but I have a small recording studio in my condo - a multi unit so I can't be too loud. One way I've compensated for that is electronic drums - Korg Wavedrum and Roland Handsonic. I use software drum programs. AND, I have a small accumulation of actual drums and percussion instruments. Putting my hands on the head of a real dumbek is not at all like "playing" a modeled one using any interface you can name.

 

The sound that comes out of a real piano when one sits and tinkers (I suck at keyboards) cannot be compared to the sound of the best electronic grand piano coming at you through a pair of speakers.

Human instinct perhaps? I've many friends whose children have pursued learning to play real instruments and challenging ones like violin. Some of them are very talented and they all are attracted to the joy of physical vibration of the music generator.

 

If modeled instruments were truly at that compelling and engaging point, we would probably all use them all the time.

 

Simple answer - they are not the same and don't have that magic.