So long and thanks for all the fish!

[kylen]

Come on arell - give the man some space - everybody has a button. 'Specially when you lay it out like Henry does - you expect something civilized in return. I didn't see what happened though so what do I know...

 

I've seen your panties get bunched up a time or 2

 

Nobody knows me very well 'cause I don't say much but what gets me is small sandwich bread, hehe.

 

Nice Chevy Chase routine though arell - actually better than the original !

 

Hope Henry is playin some jazz now and not listenin to this dribble

[BP3]

Henry, at least come back on occasion to post a link or two to your music. Be well and happy.

 

bp

http://fins.actwin.com/pics/Lo_vulpinus.jpg

http://fins.actwin.com/pics/Oxycirrhites_typus.jpg

http://fins.actwin.com/pics/Ecsenius_bicolor.jpg

http://fins.actwin.com/fresh-pics/marbleangel.jpghttp://fins.actwin.com/pics/Pterois_antennata2.jpg

I like fish.

[skipclone 1]

Henry

If you`ve got your mind made up maybe there`s nothing I can say about it, but just remember the advice you gave me about morale. If you`re not getting anything out of being here I can understand, but you`ve been a good influence to a lot of folks here, including myself.

I`d say, get yer filters working, mon-if someone sitting at a keyboard can get you that ruffled, how can you deal with the music business or anything else? I mean, not to play wise man on the mountain but ultimately, it`s your ship captain, you decide where you want to go. In any case, fair winds to ya always, I`ll drop you my e-mail if you don`t mind.

[big K]

I respect your postition, and I will go agenst teh gain here(I have done that a lot latly) yea, if your sick of it take a break, .. maybe just read for a bit , or just take a month off, and explore other interests in your life. Sometime you have to look out for number 1.

 

HOWEVER- the reason I sugest this, is because it is what I did, and now I am back, and have a different prospective on issues.

 

I may not have 300+ posts, but I have been here a fair while, I have seen a lot of changes in here, I remember the days when I knew EVERY person here. Things have changed, and they will change back.

 

okay enough blabering.

 

Kevin Nemrava

[Rog]

C'mon Henry. This place gets too much for most people at some point or other. I quit for a month or two because of some dumb trolls and came back felling a lot better.

 

This place is a lot like the real world. Sometimes you just have to pick and choose who you want to talk to and who you have to ignore.

 

Hound Dog, I don't know who you are and I don't care. I know a little of Henry though and he's one of the good guys to get yur fucking act together. Principles or whatever don't mean a great deal when you're upsetting a decent person with them.

[Geoff Grace]

Okay, so let me get this straight, were losing Henry; and in his place we get Hound Dog?

 

 

I've never heard of this poster; but (s)he'd have to be great to substitute for you! (And that certainly doesn't sound like the case...)

 

Henry, my friend, I respect and understand your decision; but I'm unhappy with it. You count here more than you know...

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Jotown]

Hey Henry, Take care of yourself.

 

I have been taking a break from these forums myself. Hang in there, and the good news is you will probably get a lot more music recorded while you are away.

 

Blessings, and good fortune.

[Rog]

Hi Jotown, good to see you're back

[Philip OKeefe]

Hey Jotown, how have you been doing? Long time, no see. Pass the Postahol, would ya please?

[Hound Dog]

Hound Dog enter with hands raised

 

Please don't shoot. I assure you I come in peace.

 

To Henry, if you are still there:

I do not see any reason for you to leave the forums unless you have personally decided you do not want to particiapte further. If you go into your profile, the last option is a radio button that gives you the choice of turning off all avatars. You will then never be bothered or offended by another "evil" avatar. I have my avatar for my own enjoyment. I have had it for months and you have never mentioned it until I posted on a thread with a racial discussion. I have never used offensive language with you or any one else. And I am not bothered by the profanity you have used against me. I have not in any way gone on the offensive against you. We share some different views and I hope that you would respect my right to my own views as I respect your right to yours. I have never asked you to leave and I do not chase you around trying to insult you. As I understand it, you are choosing to leave because you think my avatar is a symbol of racism, you are upset that I do not see it as a racist symbol and have declined to remove it, and you can't stand to look at it anymore. That is your decision based on your interpretation of the forum's images and content.

 

To others who blame me for Henry's exit:

I commend Henry somewhat for the way he handled his problem. He didn't continue to attack me, he just said "I'm leaving" I do not even recall that he personally asked me to remove the image. I am curious why he would not exercise the simple feature which turns off avatars as a solution to his problem. Maybe he just needs a break.

 

Someone said that Henry has tried to "educate" me. I must defend him and say that he did not. In his post on this thread and several other posts, he indicates that he does not try to change people's views. I admire this quality in him. Several others did take on the role of trying to "educate" me by telling me what I should and should not consider racist and they ran into a brick wall. Henry was not even part of those exchanges, because he had already removed himself from the conversations.

 

There are a lot of people making comments about Henry's leaving who haven't been involved and don't know what they are talking about.

[Rog]

Hound Dog, instead of writing reams and reams of justification, you'd be a bigger person in my eyes if you just changed the damn avatar.

 

Sticking to your guns is all well and good and perhaps even admirable in a strange way. Even so, if it upsets someone is it really so hard to just change it?

 

Changing it doesn't mean you're giving in, it means you're being considerate.

[Hound Dog]

Rog, I think of these avatars just as I think of "bumper stickers". If Henry wants to leave because he finds some sinister meaning in my "bumper sticker", I can't begin begin to understand that and I will not even try. He has to do what he has to do. I think it is silly and I think he is looking for a racial issue where no racial issue is present.

[boosh]

Originally posted by Rog:

Hound Dog, instead of writing reams and reams of justification, you'd be a bigger person in my eyes if you just changed the damn avatar.

 

Sticking to your guns is all well and good and perhaps even admirable in a strange way. Even so, if it upsets someone is it really so hard to just change it?

 

Changing it doesn't mean you're giving in, it means you're being considerate.

Djeez man,.. there's nothing wrong with that Avatar. It's funny. Why change it? It's not like the guy on the picture was forced by a slave trader to wear a bone in through his nose.

 

The right to choose your own Avatar is the right to be free.

 

Unless it's truely hurting someone or pornography.

[Rog]

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

Rog, I think of these avatars just as I think of "bumper stickers". If Henry wants to leave because he finds some sinister meaning in my "bumper sticker", I can't begin begin to understand that and I will not even try. He has to do what he has to do. I think it is silly and I think he is looking for a racial issue where no racial issue is present.

Then you're not being considerate ... that's your decision.

[Rog]

Originally posted by boosh:

Unless it's truly hurting someone

Ummm ....

[_Sweet Willie_]

Instead of rehashing the whole avatar conversation again here, just go to the thread: Click me!

 

You can read the whole thing or start on page 5 where the discussion of HD's avatar begins.

 

Peace.

--SW

[boosh]

Originally posted by Sweet Willie:

Instead of rehashing the whole avatar conversation again here, just go to the thread: Click me!

 

You can read the whole thing or start on page 5 where the discussion of HD's avatar begins.

 

Peace.

--SW

This thread is about HR who's leaving us due to the Avatar thingy so I don't see any problem why there can't be a discussion about it on this thread.

[LiveMusic]

Originally posted by Jotown:

Hey Henry, Take care of yourself.

 

I have been taking a break from these forums myself. Hang in there, and the good news is you will probably get a lot more music recorded while you are away.

 

Blessings, and good fortune.

Been wondering where in the hell have YOU been?

 

Henry, yeah, it's a crazy world and there are some really rude people, including on here. But many good ones. Good luck.

[sign]

Dear Henry, I wish you were my neighbour.

 

Please stay my good brother.

[LiveMusic]

WAIT a minute... I just turned avatars on. I have had them off for years. Henry, you are leaving because of THAT avatar? Wow, hmmm... uh... hmmm... well... uh... hmmm... uh, maybe that is more YOUR problem, Henry. Methinks you are being a bit too sensitive here. I'm not you but uh... hmmm... I would probably remove it if it as mine but I am not Hound Dog and I really don't see what the big deal is. Obviously, he likes it. Hmmm...

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by boosh:

This thread is about HR who's leaving us due to the Avatar thingy so I don't see any problem why there can't be a discussion about it on this thread.

I miswrote. My apologies. I didn't mean to suggest that there shouldn't be any discussion of it here, but rather that it would be useful and informative to read the thread in question first.

 

In that thread you can read some substantial posts from Henry, myself, Nawledge, and others who explained why we weren't happy with the avatar, and you can also read HD's original responses, also lengthy, to our concerns.

 

You will also see that the discussion was fairly emotional and some of us posted some pretty personal stuff, and I think you'll understand why I am not going to rehash it all here -- although you are absolutely right, boosh, that it is relevant to also discuss it on this thread as well.

 

Peace.

--SW

[Dan South]

Henry,

 

We love you. Be happy.

 

I don't know what precipated this, but if that one incident really does outweigh ALL of your previous experiences here, then by all means, do what makes you happy. You'll get no argument from me.

 

It's ironic that a thread about Bill Cosby would cause Henry to leave. They're two of the men that I admire most.

[WFTurner]

There are a lot of people making comments about Henry's leaving who haven't been involved and don't know what they are talking about.

A lot of folks here don't have to read the thread to know what they're talking about. I don't know whats in the thread, don't want to know, don't care.

 

If it has Henry this upset it's certainly foul.

 

Hurry back Henry. If not then certainly know I sure

love what few mp3's of you music I have. They get listened to often.

[Duddits]

HENRY:

 

Houndog is a flea who's going out of his way to be provocative, to exploit this forum to get attention. It's a fact of life on the internet, that fleas like him will exploit it for their own personal needs. But you knew that!

 

But that someone like you, who is thoughtful, introspective and wise -- who has been through so much -- could be bothered by a flea like Hounddog -- I just can't believe it and don't understand it. It seems out of character for you.

 

You know full well that there are fleas like Hounddog, and there's nothing anyone can do to change them. But by providing dramatic contrast, your contributions enrich the many people (and the occassional cat) who read them.

 

It is appropriate that your last post in the Cosby thread ended it, because after that there was nothing else to say. Your post was honest and poignant, and knocked away Hounddog's dribble like a home run. What a fantastic post it was, and what a life you've lead.

 

But how ironic that after describing your genuine hardships and remarkable achievement, that you would be defeated, let alone bothered, by a flea like Houndog!

 

This forum is a better place with you in it, and with 3,200 posts, you are an integral part of it. I know I may just be a cat, but I just can't believe that after transcending genuine obstacles that you could be so bothered by the lack of civility of a stranger on an internet forum. The beauty of these forums is their diversity, and the occassional lack of civility is the price we pay for participating in them. With 3,200 posts, I would think you would have already decided that occassional incivility is an acceptable price for access to a diverse and open forum.

 

Finally, let me express selfish motivation. I enjoy reading your posts and interacting with you, and would miss your contribution, and see no reason why I should! Houndog is a flea who you easily knock out of the ballpark. And now you are empowering a flea like him to deprive us of you? That's not fair!

 

Your final post on the Cosby thread was one of the best I have ever read. You have an audience here that you've earned with your 3,200 posts. Do you realize that? To the extent that this motley crew of internet participants represents a virtual community, an ongoing piece of performance art as Craig described it, you are a fundamental piece, and you damage it when you ditch.

 

Thus, one cat's opinion: kudos for your excellent contribution, but shame on you if you leave!

[Lee Flier]

What Duddits said.

 

Hound Dog, I really don't care anymore what your intention was behind using your avatar. You've already said it a million times that "it's there for your own enjoyment." But there is nothing stopping you from enjoying the memory of a TV show. We all know you have the "right" to use whatever avatar you want and nobody has asked you to remove it, but the fact that you don't want to do so on your own, and continue to try to justify your use of it so relentlessly, causes me to have the opinion that you're a selfish boor who doesn't consider his friends' feelings about something that would require very little effort or sacrifice on your part to change.

 

Having said that - Henry, I still think Duddits and others are right and I wish you wouldn't leave over this. Don't let the jerks win. I can certainly understand you needing to take a break (I've done it a few times myself) but I hope you come back soon and kick ass. This forum and the world in general needs more guys like you, and we're all poorer without you.

[Lee Tyler]

That avatar is Spanky's "Uncle George" from "The Little Rascals". "YUM YUM....EAT EM' UP" Anybody remember? ---Lee

[Hound Dog]

Originally posted by Rog:

Hound Dog, instead of writing reams and reams of justification, you'd be a bigger person in my eyes if you just changed the damn avatar.

 

Sticking to your guns is all well and good and perhaps even admirable in a strange way. Even so, if it upsets someone is it really so hard to just change it?

 

Changing it doesn't mean you're giving in, it means you're being considerate.

Rog, I appreciate your opinion. I disagree with some of it. The people who have had the biggest problem with the avatar are the people who insist that I am using it as a racist symbol, even though I had assured them that I am not. I obviously have no problem stating my views, and if I intended it to be offensive to anyone I would definitely say so.

 

For those of you who don't know, the image is of "Uncle George", a funny character in my favorite Little Rascals episode. The reason Henry and others say that I should remove it is that some people in the entertainment industry about the time that this episode was filmed used characters to stereotype and offend black people. They feel that in priciple, even though I have attached no racial meaning to it that I should ditch it.

 

What they might not know about me is that I can also stand on principle. I believe that the issue of telling other people what they should and should not consider offensive has gotten to a ridiculous point. It seems now that I can't even enjoy a character from my favorite TV show because somebody thinks it is offensive. If you take this argument further, then am I going to let people tell me that I can't watch "Gone with the Wind", that I can't quote Mark Twain, that I can't enjoy the music of Stephen Foster AND Outkast? Can I listen to Chris Rock? I respect anybody's right to disagree with me and even tell me how they disagree. But I do not jump to every whim of people who obviously have racial agendas and expect me to be a part of those. I am actually very neutral on the subject of racism. In the posts I have made on the subject I state clearly that I do not believe in forced segregation not do I believe in forced integration. The people that have had a big problem with me can't understand that. They think I have to be "for" or "against" what they believe in. They have a real hard time understanding that alot of people in this nation have "moved on" philosophically, and are not looking for racial iussues in everthing they see. And frankly, many are getting tired of the ridiculous extremes with which people will seek to exercise thier racial "bravado". Most of these people have not even been tramatized, terrorized, humiliated, or made fun of by "Uncle George" directly. They are repeating what they have read or heard. They are using someone else's experience as their reasons. They are holding on to a part of the past that always keeps them warm and comfy in the role of the victim. The priciple that I stand on is that I have observed a huge effort by some people (of all races) to find racism in everything and I have observed them trying to dictate to all others exactly what is offensive and what is not. I believe that these people are greatly infriging on the rights of others in their quest to do this. I do not subscribe to it one bit. I believe that consitutionally, we all have the same rights in this country. So if these individuals are fighting for more constitutional rights, someone should tell them that the battle is over. But they are not really fighting for more consitutional rights, they are fighting to change peoples minds. Many have said so in this forum. They want to insist for people of other races to to change everything and anything that they decided is racist. My principle is that I am perfectly happy with my mind, thank you. And excuse me if I resist your attempts to change it. And what that means to this issue is that my mind does not dwell upon the intentions of movie makers in the '30s and any racism they may have promoted. My mind does not check for politcal correctness every step I take, because I have determined that to be futile, given the ridiculouse extremes to which people take it. If you disagree with me keeping my avatar, you are really disagreeing with the former statement that I do not subcribe to be politically correct at all times. Sorry, I respect your right to your own opinions and I defend my right to mine. In a nutshell: I am sorry that many of you have found ridiculous reasons to think that "Uncle George" is so evil, but I really just don't see it that way. And I refuse to let your problems and hangups with "Uncle George" affect me one bit.

 

I once used the example of an avatar of a guitar. What if someone said "Those guitar avatars represent the elimination of our earth's forests and I want them all removed"? I would think that to be a silly notion and I would hope no one would remove thier avatar based on one or more people expressing this feeling, no matter how strongly they felt about trees.

 

So now we have two people who are standing on priciple, which is OK. Henry has to do what he has to do and I have to do what I have to do. It appears that we both believe strongly in our positions. I have not asked Henry to leave, it was his idea. I welcome his participation.

[Hound Dog]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

What Duddits said.

 

Hound Dog, I really don't care anymore what your intention was behind using your avatar. You've already said it a million times that "it's there for your own enjoyment." But there is nothing stopping you from enjoying the memory of a TV show. We all know you have the "right" to use whatever avatar you want and nobody has asked you to remove it, but the fact that you don't want to do so on your own, and continue to try to justify your use of it so relentlessly, causes me to have the opinion that you're a selfish boor who doesn't consider his friends' feelings about something that would require very little effort or sacrifice on your part to change.

 

Having said that - Henry, I still think Duddits and others are right and I wish you wouldn't leave over this. Don't let the jerks win. I can certainly understand you needing to take a break (I've done it a few times myself) but I hope you come back soon and kick ass. This forum and the world in general needs more guys like you, and we're all poorer without you.

Lee:

Actually several people have asked me to remove it.

 

Actually I have suggested several times that I think the attention people have given it is ridiculous. Other people keep brining it up. I have suggested several times that we all move along and forget it.

 

You know, you never did answer the question about whether you would remove your guitar avatar if someone said they found it offensive.

[sign]

If you like your avatar so much, then at least make it smaller. Your posts look ridiculously long.

[Dak Lander]

For those of you not old enough to remember, that avatar is from an old "Little Rascals" episode, something like (The Kid From Borneo???).

 

I can see that it might be offensive to some but then that leaves the offended person in a position that would also find many of the old John Wayne movies, Gone With the Wind, Shenandoah & other fantastic movies offensive ,including any still pictures taken either at the time or from the films. Tough row to hoe being that sensitive, at least it would be for me.

 

With that out of the way, I'm one that just doesn't read posts that are either started or look to be taken over by someone who's views I find intolerable. I will also turn off the avatars when I find too many either too stupid for words, offensive to me or too large, and always at work.

 

Others should really do the same.

 

Henry, I'm among those that wish you to stay and concur with the advice about just going on hiatus for a while.

Your music is an enjoyable listen & I'm gonna miss that too, well, not really because I still have some addresses for some of it.