Re-visiting an iPad Live Rig

[AnotherScott]

As long as I use the headphone out of my iPad (an older Pro), I don't have latency issues with Module. I wonder how much of the issue has to do with someone's particular interfacing.

[miden]

I'm afraid to try the Korg Module because of the reported latency. I did break down & get the iElectric piano but it had a very noticeable latency too. Whenever band jobs start up again it won't be a problem because I love the Rhodes sound on my outdated but still very usable Kawai MP6.

Korg Module is free to download and try (vs. Korg Module Pro). Would be interested to see if you notice significant latency on your setup with the free version of Korg Module.

 

I have had KM (full version) nearly since it first came out, NEVER used it apart form the odd "muck-around" at home. Sounds are pretty ordinary imo. I cover everything (when using the iPad setup) with Sampletank, Neo Soul 2 Studio, Ravenscroft, Galileo and iFretless bass.

[BenWaB3]

As long as I use the headphone out of my iPad (an older Pro), I don't have latency issues with Module. I wonder how much of the issue has to do with someone's particular interfacing.

 

I'm using the new model in which Apple, in its infinite wisdom (blatant sarcasm fully intended), decided to ditch the headphone out.

[AnotherScott]

My biggest issue with iPad rig is that some apps refuse to play together on my Mini 5. B3-X, Neo Soul, and Ravenscroft each seem to use too much CPU to allow each other to co-exist.

What method did you use to try to play these in combination? That is, did you load the apps themselves and simply address them on different MIDI channels? Or did you load them as AUv3 instances inside a "host" like AUM, Camelot Pro, or Keystage?

[JoeD]

YMMV, but I use Camelot Pro with a 2021 M1 11" iPad Pro and have no issues w/ 4 to 5 or more plugins, including custom samples, all in splits & layers dependent on the song/setlist. For me it's replaced MainStage running on a 2019 16" MacBook Pro.

 

I use the AudioLayer app by VirSyn for any custom samples or sounds that I may want or need if they aren"t available in iPad OS plugins or my YC88. AudioLayer has an EXS import function. So using the Auto Sampler utility in Logic or MainStage, I can auto sample any patch I want and create custom EXS files. Then I import those EXS files directly into AudioLayer. I"ve pretty much sampled and imported whatever want or need form Kontakt, Omnisphere, or any other VST/AU plugin and use them in AudioLayer on my iPad .

[Groove On]

I use the AudioLayer app by VirSyn ... AudioLayer has an EXS import function. So using the Auto Sampler utility in Logic or MainStage, I can auto sample any patch I want and create custom EXS files. Then I import those EXS files directly into AudioLayer. I"ve pretty much sampled and imported whatever want or need form Kontakt, Omnisphere, or any other VST/AU plugin and use them in AudioLayer on my iPad .

1. Cool, I was just wondering if that was possible, how big are your EXS files compared to the originals?

 

2. I see your iPad uses a single USB-C cable:

-- what is it plugged into?

-- does it provide power?

-- are you using the audio interface on the YC88 or something else?

[JoeD]

The EXS files are usually only slightly smaller than the original because I prefer to sample every semitone; though I usually only choose 5 velocity layers for each semitone because that"s usually plenty for what I need. Whereas a Kontakt sample library may have more velocity layers & round robins, etc. For example a Flute may end up being ~950mb in EXS, but the original may be ~1.25gb. AudioLayer imports the EXS files at about the same size, and it seems to handle imports very well. I have plenty of storage on the iPad so not an issue for me.

 

Yes, I use 1 cable out of the iPad. It"s a USB C male/female extension cable connected to a USB C hub, so the hub isn"t dangling off the end of the iPad. The hub handles charging the iPad, USB audio & midi to/from the YC88, and USB midi for a FaderFox UC4 interface w/faders & buttons to control Camelot setlists/songs/scene layers on/off, volumes, etc. Camelot"s song setups handle YC's live set changes, AUv3 plugins, & PDFs for each song.

 

Extension Cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083YT24VS/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

USB C Hub: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZVKTP53/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[funkyhammond]

I was given an iPad 2 with 64GB and am thinking about trying to use it as a sound module. Is the iPad 2 good enough? I wouldn't be using it for anything else. I just need basic vintage sounds (B3, Rhodes, Clav, monosynth) that are good quality and have assignable controls for MIDI CC. The most complicated thing I would want to do is have two sounds on two MIDI channels playable at the same time, but if that's too much for it, even just doing one sound at a time would be okay.

 

I'm not an Apple user normally. What are some cheap/free sounds just to try it out and make sure it works for me without audio glitches or too much latency? And what is the cheapest way to get 5-pin MIDI IN to it? I do have a UR22mkII audio/MIDI to USB interface if that helps. I'll use the headphone out of the iPad into a mixer if that's the best way to avoid latency.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Adam Burgess]

The GarageBand organ isn't bad at all - same for the built-in EP. Korg do a free (or very cheap) version of their Module software for piano and other stuff IIRC.

I did try a few duo gigs with just an iPad (with camera connection kit) and, it didn't glitch at all. I did feel the dynamic range wasn't there, initially! But that's cause I probs hit everything too hard anyway!

[AnotherScott]

45 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

what is the cheapest way to get 5-pin MIDI IN to it? I do have a UR22mkII audio/MIDI to USB interface

 

Don't go cheapest. Get the Apple Lightning to USB3 Camera Adapter and use it with that existing interface. There are cheaper versions, but this one allows you to also keep the charger plugged in (VERY valuable feature), and it's Apple's own (third party equivalents have had reported compatibility issues).

[Rustar]

How do you get simultaneous midi in and sound out from your iPad USB port? I have a Plugkey that quit working and I'm looking for another device with the same functionality.

[JoeD]

In my case the YC USB to host interface handles both audio and MIDI, connected to a USB hub that also provides power and other MIDI connections to the iPad.  The USB hub can also handle a USB audio interface (such as a MOTU 4M or similar) for keyboards that don't have a combined USB audio & midi interface.

[funkyhammond]

On 3/31/2022 at 12:52 PM, AnotherScott said:

 

Don't go cheapest. Get the Apple Lightning to USB3 Camera Adapter and use it with that existing interface. There are cheaper versions, but this one allows you to also keep the charger plugged in (VERY valuable feature), and it's Apple's own (third party equivalents have had reported compatibility issues).

 

I was hoping to find a cheap way to just try things out. The iPad 2 doesn't even have the Lightning connector, it has the old 30-pin connector. I guess I can try getting a 30-pin to USB cable and see if it works with my Steinberg interface just to get the MIDI IN. I just want to see if this old iPad can even handle being a live sound module. I'm not sure how I will evaluate whether it will be able to smoothly run things like VB3m or Neo-Soul Keys without actually purchasing them but I guess I can just try things out in GarageBand first.

 

But then there is that pesky issue of having charging available if I did go ahead with using the iPad 2. I found this thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ipadmusic/comments/lgi6h5/ipad_2_30_pin_midi_and_charging/

I did some more searching and found some products, like the original iRig MIDI or the Alesis IO Dock/Dock II, that would have worked to get MIDI and charging but they are no longer available so I would have to find one used. 

 

[AnotherScott]

Ah, yes, the 30-pin is a complication. Apple didn't make a USB adapter for that one which also permitted simultaneous charging, so yeah, you'd have to find one of those others. As far as VB3m goes (for example), I don't know what the oldest version of iOS is that it will run on, nor the newest version of iOS you can update that old iPad to, so that could be an issue you run into as well.

[stoken6]

Yamaha i-UX1 is (was?) a 30pin-to-midi interface. I bought one alongside a 30pin-to-lightning adapter because at the time I hadn't realised that I could use Apple's official lightning-to-USB (plus a USB midi cable) with iPhones. (USB support for iPhone came with iOS9 iirc). If you can find a s/h i-UX1 it might be useful - although no simultaneous charging of course.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[funkyhammond]

16 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

As far as VB3m goes (for example), I don't know what the oldest version of iOS is that it will run on, nor the newest version of iOS you can update that old iPad to, so that could be an issue you run into as well.

 

That's a good point. It looks like the iPad 2 can only go up to iOS 9.3, which is the minimum requirement for VB3m, but other stuff, like Neo-Soul, B-3X, Model D, require at least iOS 11 or 12. It's a bit of luck in this case that VB3m stopped being updated a long time ago but my choices for other quality sounds are probably pretty limited. I have no idea what the electric piano sounds in GarageBand are like in the iOS 9.3 version. This is starting to look like it might not be worth the effort. I guess an early iPad that had older versions of music apps still loaded in it might be useful but trying to start with an early iPad now and find stuff to load into it seems problematic.

[AnotherScott]

VB3m is actually quite recent... but he was nicely able to code it such that it would still work with OS versions as old as 9.3.

 

An irritating thing about Apple (let me count the ways) is that, often there IS an older version of an app that will run on an older OS, but Apple won't let you download it unless you already own some version of it. So for example, the current version of GarageBand requires iOS 15, so even though there WAS a version that ran on 9.3, Apple probably won't let you download it. BUT, if you happened to also own, say, an iPhone that had iOS 15 on it, you could download GarageBand on THAT, and THEN you could go back to your old iPad, and you'd get a message telling you that you can't run the current version, but if you'd like, you can download the older version that runs on your device.

[funkyhammond]

37 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

VB3m is actually quite recent... but he was nicely able to code it such that it would still work with OS versions as old as 9.3.

 

My mistake. I misinterpreted what I was reading. Do you know if the VB3m sound engine is based on VB3-II (not the original)?

 

37 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

An irritating thing about Apple (let me count the ways) is that, often there IS an older version of an app that will run on an older OS, but Apple won't let you download it unless you already own some version of it. So for example, the current version of GarageBand requires iOS 15, so even though there WAS a version that ran on 9.3, Apple probably won't let you download it. BUT, if you happened to also own, say, an iPhone that had iOS 15 on it, you could download GarageBand on THAT, and THEN you could go back to your old iPad, and you'd get a message telling you that you can't run the current version, but if you'd like, you can download the older version that runs on your device.

 

Yes, I was reading about that. And the other problem is that the app developer can decide to remove older versions from the App Store. So, even if there used to be an older version, it might be completely gone from the servers. I don't know how common it is for developers to remove older versions. My sister has an iPad that is more recent, so I could potentially ask her if I can use her ID on this iPad and then use her iPad to first get the current versions of the apps. But I'd be taking a risk not knowing if an older version is still available. And there's no way to look that up ahead of time as far as I can tell. It's all sounding very iffy. 

 

I'm not sure what possibilities jailbreaking this iPad 2 might offer. It seems like I might be able to install newer versions of iOS but who knows how well things will run. Maybe I could at least download current versions of free stuff (like Garage Band and Korg Module) and then re-install iOS 9.3 and access the older versions. It won't cost me anything to try that.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, funkyhammond said:

 

My mistake. I misinterpreted what I was reading. Do you know if the VB3m sound engine is based on VB3-II (not the original)?

It's supposedly based on the original.

[HammondDave]

Interesting that very few are recommending the Korg Module. I have been gigging with that and the Model D on my iPad for years. Great sounds, great EP’s, AP’s, Synths, and a host of others. Plus you can buy additional soundsets for $5-$19. 

[jejefunkyman]

I like Korg Module. The Scarbee EP included in it as IAP is the best Rhodes emulation on iOS for me. I tried NSK1 and 2, didn’t like it. I tried VTines. Didn’t like it either. I tried the Colossus EPs. Didn’t like it. 
I like the Synthogy APs. I’ve tried Colossus but didn’t like it. I sometimes think about buying Ravenscroft, but never took the plunge. I don’t think there’s a big difference with Synthogy anyway.

I bought some of the KApro packs which are very good.

I also find the Clavs and Wurli packs very good. 
I have to say that I never gigged with Module though. 
But yes, I’m happy with Korg Module 😁

[yannis D]

On 4/3/2022 at 5:12 PM, jejefunkyman said:

I like Korg Module. The Scarbee EP included in it as IAP is the best Rhodes emulation on iOS for me. I tried NSK1 and 2, didn’t like it. I tried VTines. Didn’t like it either. I tried the Colossus EPs. Didn’t like it. 
I like the Synthogy APs. I’ve tried Colossus but didn’t like it. I sometimes think about buying Ravenscroft, but never took the plunge. I don’t think there’s a big difference with Synthogy anyway.

I bought some of the KApro packs which are very good.

I also find the Clavs and Wurli packs very good. 
I have to say that I never gigged with Module though. 
But yes, I’m happy with Korg Module 😁

 

Yes, Korg Module is very good. I wish they gave more options for multitimbrality etc but still Is a great piece of gear for its price

[HammondDave]

There is now an expansion pack that allows you to layer or split two sounds.  Very useful in my classic rock bands. 

[jejefunkyman]

It’s already available since more than 2 years 😁 But yes, very practical for those who need it 👍

[yannis D]

17 hours ago, HammondDave said:

There is now an expansion pack that allows you to layer or split two sounds.  Very useful in my classic rock bands. 

I got this. But it is still limited IMO. I would love to have a little bit more options there, but again it's top choice regarding the price. 

 

 

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

I recently got my second iPad Air 2 (a 128GB one, WiFi model) for 200€. Yes, it is an old model but works with iOS 15 (it will be the last update though) and has a decent processor and a nice display.

 

My use is twofold: along my other one, as a ForScore dual display (I love that option) and as a sound module. It stutters a bit with some VIs, but still does a very decent job. And battery lasts quite a lot.

 

So, if you want to go the iPad way, it is one cheap one to consider, IMHO.

 

Jose

[dickiefunk]

I have quite a few apps including - Pure Piano, Ravenscroft 275, VB3m, Model D and Model 15. The plan was to upgrade the sounds on my Yamaha CP88 and YC61. However, with Yamahas latest firmware updates I prefer the new Hamburg piano sample in the CP88 to Pure Piano and the Ravenscroft. Also with the latest 1.2 firmware on the YC61, the new improved rotary, I no longer need VB3m anymore. 
 

Instead, I’m going down the Sampletank route to expand the sounds from what the CP and YC have. I also like that it is all contained in one app making workflow much quicker and easier. 
 

[analogman1]

So... is the current consensus that for very basic use of the iPad live (i.e., just using it to run ONE synth app at a time), using the basic Apple addapter with the USB cable input for charging would suffice?

I've had that cable for a few years. 

And, for output, I'd just use the headphone output.

I have a ton of programs I've bought; everything from Audiobus to AUM etc.

But it all seems too fiddly...

I just want to run a single program on the iPad at a time. 

That particular program might change, depending on the gig; (If I'm jamming with others, B3-X; at gigs. maybe iWavestation or a Mellotron program)...but don't need anything fancy for switching between programs etc.

What do you folks think? Thanks SO MUCH in advance...

[AnotherScott]

Yes, if you're only running one app, just using the Apple adapter and the headphone jack is fine. 

[analogman1]

Thanks, Scott...much appreciated!