Mighty Motif Max Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Hi everyone, I am finishing putting together a good portable setup for use at college. I"ve already got an invitation to play in a large worship band that a former band mate of mine is leading. I want to be able to use a Mainstage setup should I need to. However, I need to keep this pretty compact for storage reasons. The keyboard is a Kurzweil PC3. I"ll be using a MacBook Pro of some kind, probably a new model (so, all USB-C). I have a four-channel Thunderbolt 2 interface, but it"s reportedly sketchy with adapters, and is much too large for setting on the keyboard. Budged is max. $250, could stretch to $300 if there"s a good reason. At least two inputs, four would be nice for simultaneous recording of keys and a micAt least one stereo pair of outputs, two would be nice for running a click. Basically I don"t want to wish I had more.No larger than 7.5' wide by 7' deep - that"s the max space I have available on the right panel of the PC3. I don"t want it to overhang where someone could knock it down.As low of latency as possible. I need to be able to play fast synth lines and not have problems. 5-Pin Midi In/OutUSB-C is a must. I don"t want to deal with adapters as it"s just one more thing to deal with.Bus powered192khz capability Contenders I"ve found are the following: MOTU M-2 2x2 USB-CSteinberg UR22CPresonus Studio 26c USB-C - two stereo output pairsFocusrite Scarlett 4i4 3rd Generation - four inputs, four outputs Suggestions on anything you"ve used? I know we have a number of laptop gigging people here. Thank you! Max Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuelBLupowitz Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 I have the previous generation of that Steinberg, the UR22mkii, for my gigging rig, and I'm very happy with it. The DIN MIDI in/out came in super handy for my peculiar setup, even though I wasn't sure I'd need it when I got it. Obviously, just the one stereo pair of outputs; I run the built-instereo outs to my amp or direct to the house, and set up an aggregate device on my Macbook so I can run a separate output from the Mac's built-in headphone jack (for my talkbox). I don't have personal experience with the others you mentioned, but I've heard good things about all of those brands (I've used some Focusrite interfaces as well). Quote Samuel B. Lupowitz Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t9cstudio Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 If you want more ins/outs the MOTU M4 4x4 will fit within your budget. Rick Quote Kurzweil PC4, NS3-88, Kronos 2-61, QSC K8.2's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 You don't need an adapter to connect a USB-C equipped computer to an older peripheral: Yes, an "adapter" cable, but it's a single piece, not an extra "interface adapter" to get lost. Same as a USB-C cable, just with a USB-B plug at one end instead. There are plenty of worthwhile USB2 audio interfaces that ticks all your boxes. In the time-honored tradition of everyone recommending what they own , the MOTU MicroBook IIc has a lot more going for it than most if not all the others mentioned here so far, for any unit in its size class and price. A built-in DSP mixer that gives you near-zero latency monitoring through effects (EQ and dynamics, no reverb unfortunately). You can control the mix from an iPad. 4 inputs and 6 outputs - so three independent stereo outputs (one of them is the headphone â usually a mirror of the main outs in other interfaces, here it's a completely separate bus). One mic input with switchable phantom. And... tiny! I think it's around $250. OK, sales pitch done, good luck with whatever you wind up with! [Edit - just re-read the OP. No midi on this guy so as Emily Litella once said... never mind!! I'd still make the point about the USB-C to B cable.] [Edit #2 - you need 192Khz, really? I'm curious as to why you would need that capability. In all my years of working with digital audio I've never encountered a single time anyone was working with that sample rate, or read an article or saw a post where a big-name audio engineer said they used it or that it was necessary. I'm not claiming to be the oracle on this, so I'm all ears if somebody wants to let me know how 192Khz is a useful SR to have for a gigging musician or a recording-project musician.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 [Edit #2 - you need 192Khz, really? I'm curious as to why you would need that capability. In all my years of working with digital audio I've never encountered a single time anyone was working with that sample rate, or read an article or saw a post where a big-name audio engineer said they used it or that it was necessary. I'm not claiming to be the oracle on this, so I'm all ears if somebody wants to let me know how 192Khz is a useful SR to have for a gigging musician or a recording-project musician.] I got an interface that could record at 192 khz. I don't use that SR at all. It wasn't the reason I got the interface, it was a "bonus". I could be wrong but a converter that can handle 192khz might also be more accurate at providing 96khz than a converter that tops out at 96khz. Or, I could be completely full of crap, many have suggested this option as well. Cheers, Kuru Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roygBiv Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 .... 192Khz, really? I'm curious as to why you would need that capability... I may be incorrect on this, but I vaguely recall that higher sample rates can theoretically yield lower latency. Initially seems counter-intuitive, I know. Maybe someone who actually knows can chime in here. PS- thanks for suggesting the MOTU MicroBook IIc, that looks interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRW Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 I"m also on the lookout for a USB-C interface for a new Mac, and I"m considering the MOTU M4 myself - supposedly it"s best in class at that (low) price point. I also do need actual hardware MIDI in/out so that"s a plus too. They"re hard to come by, though - especially the M4 model is out of stock in a lot of places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 I"m also on the lookout for a USB-C interface for a new Mac, and I"m considering the MOTU M4 myself - supposedly it"s best in class at that (low) price point. I also do need actual hardware MIDI in/out so that"s a plus too. They"re hard to come by, though - especially the M4 model is out of stock in a lot of places. I've owned 3 MOTU interfaces at one point or another. I like that they support older interfaces with updated firmware to keep them in the game. I like that they have a flat rate for service on interfaces and most of the time will simply ship a tested and working refurbished equivalent to the device you send in. I like that they've kept manufacturing in the USA. I like that they have transitioned away from analog pots to digital controllers and you can download control software for free to adjust your interface gain etc. from your computer. I have a few dislikes but they are quibbling and not deal breakers. It certainly isn't their fault that their older Firewire interfaces are now pretty much obselete, which is why I don't have MOTU at this pont. I found the Presonus Quantum was better for my needs at that particular time. So far, so good. Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKittel Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 FWIW: In my experience the best sonic quality you can get for the money are Audient"s ID series. Extremely low latency too. I am using an ID14 which I compared with quite a few others mentioned above. Audient's converters cope with high end products such as RME. I even prefer the cheap Audient to my RME Multiface which was three or four times as expensive. Quote LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 FWIW: In my experience the best sonic quality you can get for the money are Audient"s ID series. Extremely low latency too. I am using an ID14 which I compared with quite a few others mentioned above. Audient's converters cope with high end products such as RME. I even prefer the cheap Audient to my RME Multiface which was three or four times as expensive. Thanks! I was considering the ID14, as it"s got a lot of expandability for the size. However, there"s no MIDI, so it"s not an option for me. If you want more ins/outs the MOTU M4 4x4 will fit within your budget. Rick The MOTU looks fantastic, but it"s 8.25' wide, and my max is 7.5'. Turned sideways it would be too long as well. Thanks. You don't need an adapter to connect a USB-C equipped computer to an older peripheral: Yes, an "adapter" cable, but it's a single piece, not an extra "interface adapter" to get lost. Same as a USB-C cable, just with a USB-B plug at one end instead. There are plenty of worthwhile USB2 audio interfaces that ticks all your boxes. ... [Edit #2 - you need 192Khz, really? I'm curious as to why you would need that capability. In all my years of working with digital audio I've never encountered a single time anyone was working with that sample rate, or read an article or saw a post where a big-name audio engineer said they used it or that it was necessary. I'm not claiming to be the oracle on this, so I'm all ears if somebody wants to let me know how 192Khz is a useful SR to have for a gigging musician or a recording-project musician.] Hey, thanks for the info on the cables. I wasn"t sure if those would work okay with audio or not. As far as the 192 kHz goes, it"s not so much that I immediately need it as that it would be good to have. My current interface can do 96kHz. Even my Yamaha usb mixer goes to 192 kHz if I want it to. Seeing as it doesn"t seem to add much cost, I"d like to be somewhat future-proof and have it available. Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 .... 192Khz, really? I'm curious as to why you would need that capability... I may be incorrect on this, but I vaguely recall that higher sample rates can theoretically yield lower latency. Initially seems counter-intuitive, I know. Maybe someone who actually knows can chime in here. PS- thanks for suggesting the MOTU MicroBook IIc, that looks interesting. I"ve heard that too. Higher resolution for recording higher frequencies can be useful too. Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 I use a FocusRite 18i20 Gen 3 interface in my Mac Mini rig. It can also be used as a standalone mixer. It's USB C, so it connects directly to the Mini inside the rack. It works great. Never a crash at gigs Quote David Gig Rig:Depends on the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 .... 192Khz, really? I'm curious as to why you would need that capability... I may be incorrect on this, but I vaguely recall that higher sample rates can theoretically yield lower latency. Initially seems counter-intuitive, I know They can if you keep your buffer setting the same â good luck! Running a DAW or Mainstage at 192K is gonna suck up a lot of processor juice so you'll likely have to make the buffer bigger to avoid clicks & pops. Theoretically, a 256-sample buffer at 192K would have the same latency as a 64-sample buffer at 48K. That may not correlate exactly as there are other buffers involved that are not user-adjustable. Let's just say that running a 192K Mainstage rig would be "problematic", I think! (Where's Theo when you need him?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 There's round trip latency (audio from your mic through the interface, computer, software out to interface to monitor). And then there's the latency we care about - MIDI into computer from your controller, low buffer setting in the software, audio out the interface to your monitor. So ya, a low latency interface is helpful - quality drivers, but more so is the speed of your computer, and how quick it can turn MIDI around into audio. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFF Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 A sidebar here if you don't mind. Excuse my ignorance, I've never had an interface. What if.... you wanted to further future proof your setup and were willing to go up to $400 (less on used market) and a larger footprint: ? Would the Behringer XR12 get the job done for you as an interface? Not sure why it'd need an USB C port if there are translation cables. For the price of admission and a larger footprint, this box does much much more than a simple interface would. Quote Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425 Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Would the Behringer XR12 get the job done for you as an interface? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see a way to connect this to a computer or iPad to route audio into it. (I know you can control the mixer parameters from a computer or tablet). This is a computer/tablet-controlled digital mixer, not an audio interface you'd want to use with a DAW. Some mixers â even cheaper ones â do have a USB connection that routes audio to & from a computer, but may not let you route individual mixer channels to separate tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRod Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 I have used the Presonus Studio26c with Mainstage for about 9 months. It is rock solid, and sounds great. I also play my guitar through one of the inputs and use a channel strip with the virtual pedalboard. (Now, I leave my real pedals in the trunk of my car). Presonus makes great gear - I use the StudioMobile 192 in my home studio with their DAW, Studio One. Quote Bobby Kurzweil Forte 7, Studiologic SL73 with Mainstage, Ibanez basses, Numerous Guitars, Presonus StudioOne 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davinwv Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 I have used the Presonus Studio26c with Mainstage for about 9 months. It is rock solid, and sounds great. I also play my guitar through one of the inputs and use a channel strip with the virtual pedalboard. (Now, I leave my real pedals in the trunk of my car). Presonus makes great gear - I use the StudioMobile 192 in my home studio with their DAW, Studio One. I also use a Studio 26c in my live rack, a Studio 68c in my home recording setup with Studio One, and a Studio 24c in my backpack for travel. I love Presonus stuff! Presonus has made its Windows USB driver much more efficient in recent updates. My latency is much better than before, even on my 8 year old Dell XPS 15! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 A sidebar here if you don't mind. Excuse my ignorance, I've never had an interface. What if.... you wanted to further future proof your setup and were willing to go up to $400 (less on used market) and a larger footprint: ? Would the Behringer XR12 get the job done for you as an interface? Not sure why it'd need an USB C port if there are translation cables. For the price of admission and a larger footprint, this box does much much more than a simple interface would. The XR-12 does not have an interface. You'd need the XR-18. It's a 3U rack space mixer with the built in audio i/o Quote David Gig Rig:Depends on the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 I use a FocusRite 18i20 Gen 3 interface in my Mac Mini rig. It can also be used as a standalone mixer. It's USB C, so it connects directly to the Mini inside the rack. It works great. Never a crash at gigs Good to hear; I know the Focusrite interfaces seem to be popular in large worship bands, but it"s good to hear from someone I know gigs a lot with a soft synth setup and does well with it. Leaning toward the 4i4 3rd gen now. I had read about some driver issues and significant latency problems with some of the Scarlett interfaces in the past so I was hesitant. That seems to be the only one in my budget with 4 ins/outs. Sure wish they had more physical controls on the interface itself though. There's round trip latency (audio from your mic through the interface, computer, software out to interface to monitor). And then there's the latency we care about - MIDI into computer from your controller, low buffer setting in the software, audio out the interface to your monitor. So ya, a low latency interface is helpful - quality drivers, but more so is the speed of your computer, and how quick it can turn MIDI around into audio. True. Hopefully a new MacBook will have good enough specs. A sidebar here if you don't mind. Excuse my ignorance, I've never had an interface. What if.... you wanted to further future proof your setup and were willing to go up to $400 (less on used market) and a larger footprint: ? Would the Behringer XR12 get the job done for you as an interface? Not sure why it'd need an USB C port if there are translation cables. For the price of admission and a larger footprint, this box does much much more than a simple interface would. The XR-12 does not have an interface. You'd need the XR-18. It's a 3U rack space mixer with the built in audio i/o Correct, and it seems that the midi implementation isn"t intended for midi control of virtual instruments on your computer. I don"t really need something that complicated, and I really can"t budge on the footprint. Space is at an absolute premium. Thanks for the suggestion though. I have used the Presonus Studio26c with Mainstage for about 9 months. It is rock solid, and sounds great. I also play my guitar through one of the inputs and use a channel strip with the virtual pedalboard. (Now, I leave my real pedals in the trunk of my car). Presonus makes great gear - I use the StudioMobile 192 in my home studio with their DAW, Studio One. I also use a Studio 26c in my live rack, a Studio 68c in my home recording setup with Studio One, and a Studio 24c in my backpack for travel. I love Presonus stuff! Presonus has made its Windows USB driver much more efficient in recent updates. My latency is much better than before, even on my 8 year old Dell XPS 15! I have used the Presonus Studio26c with Mainstage for about 9 months. It is rock solid, and sounds great. I also play my guitar through one of the inputs and use a channel strip with the virtual pedalboard. (Now, I leave my real pedals in the trunk of my car). Presonus makes great gear - I use the StudioMobile 192 in my home studio with their DAW, Studio One. Okay, thank you. I wish they made a 4-input interface in that form factor. The 26c is still on the table for now. Anyone else have experience with the interfaces in the first post, or other suggestions? Thanks! Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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