Asia: the kind of band I would have liked to have had

[llatham]

I'll be honest, in 1982, when I was and early teen, Asia's first album made a huge impact on me.

 

I didn't know at the time they were a "supegroup". I had heard and enjoy those major Yes hits played on the radio (Fragile era mostly of course) and those very few ELP hits played on the radio (which were basically Karn Evil 9 and Lucky Man, which I at the time figured were two different bands, and rarely In the Beginning which I didn't know was them either).

 

I'd never heard of UK (and actually still have never ever ever heard a song by UK in my life - they just simply aren't and weren't played on the Radio here in the US - at least where I live - and I may have listened to a track out of curiosity or seen one posted in a forum, but they're just not on most people's radar who weren't right there when it happened) and though I'd heard of King Crimson, aside from Robert Fripp's fringe mentions in guitar magazines I'd never heard a song by them (and really, still haven't except for seeing Crimson King posted in a forum) and again, never do.

 

Geoff Downes was also not someone I'd ever heard of. I knew of The Buggles of course, becuase MTV was all the rage. In fact, MTV is probably largely what got "Only Time Will Tell" the exposure it did - I mean, female gymnast bouncing around - this was the same time frame that HBO had those aerobics videos on between movies (when both MTV still played music, and HBO still played movies...).

 

Of course I had the Vinyl, and saw the names, but still didn't really know who anyone one besides again knowing Steve Howe was in Yes (and again, guitar magazines).

 

But I LOVE this album.

 

There's great musicianship all around. The arrangements and the production are beyond top notch IMHO. The Bass playing is maybe not of Yes complexity, but it's solid and foundational, which IMHO gives the LH of the keys a chance to do some more interesting things, or for them to work together a lot more.

 

Howe's guitar work is, as always, not quite your typical rock guitar kind of playing, but it's also not so much Yes - it's almost a bit more of Alex Lifeson mixed with Brian May in terms of the way he's approaching songs - some Power Chords, some Acoustic Work (One Step Closer, more Yes like in many ways) but a lot more single line "orchestral" playing (like May within more complex arrangements). To me it's a real step forward for Howe - him becoming "more than a 70s guitarist" (which he was always more than, but I think you know what I mean) and "staying with the times" yet remaining unique. All the wah work in "Soul Survivor" and those quick lines during the breakdown section - I mean, it's not your typical guitar work, but it still fits within the era perfectly.

 

But the Keys. Oh, the keys. I mean, I can't think of very much else I've ever heard like it. Layers upon layers of really well chosen sounds and really solid playing. There aren't huge virtuosic lead lines like say "Karn Evil 9" but man, there's just tons of great sounds and great parts.

 

Not to mention the parts he and Howe do together are really awesome.

 

I knew all the 80s synth bands - there were very few I knew of the time that were really popular (without at that age having dug back into enough prog) that both balanced guitar and keys nicely, and had interesting and interestingly complex interwoven parts for each.

 

Coming from Night Ranger, or Loverboy - those were bands that incorporated Keys in a "hard rock" context more so than other hard rock bands that weren't just "Piano and string pads" which to me, at that time, were maybe more what Journey and REO did. And another bigger one was The Cars, where keys played an even more prominent role. The Cars is the one band where I always feel like, for a more "rock" band, the two instruments played sort of equals. It wasn't a guitar band with keys (like Night Ranger) or a keys band with guitar (Elton, Billy Joel, many of the New Wave acts like Flock of Seagulls).

 

The only other band I thought that was even close was - and don't hate me - Styx (and I'm sorry, I love Styx, no, screw you I'm not apologizing because they're a really great band and their sales and impact say so, despite Kilroy).

 

In fact Styx struck me as the only other band I knew that was "harder rock" that had interesting keys parts at a more technical level (remember I hadn't really heard much other prog rock at this time aside from Yes, and they were, until 90125 came out, an "old" band to me (funny how that changes as we get older!) and maybe "The Voice" by The Moody Blues which also has stellar keyboard work) with Guitar that was interesting, but to be honest, not as "up front" as I as a guitarist would have preferred. Still, plenty of guitar goodness to be had in Styx.

 

Ahh, if they could have all only had the drums and bass of Yes or Rush...

 

Asia didn't really have the Bass (but the Bass tone is glorious, please tell me that's a Ric)

 

But they did have forefront drumming, forefront guitar, and forefront keys.

 

And this is really the Band, and the Album, that really told me what cousld be done in a rock context with Keys.

 

Sure, The Cars had a great balance between guitar and keys, and the song "Cars" does a great job of all keys music (and "Don't You Want Me" for example).

 

But none of that was at Asia level.

 

As I said, I had it on Vinyl, and never re-purchased it on CD until maybe about 10 years ago if that. I remembered the impact it had on me, but listening to it again, not only was it as fresh and was I as excited about it as when it first came out, but even with more mature ears I could appreciate it even better - even the two over-played hits (I still hear Soul Survivor once in a blue moon in a restaurant or on the radio). I lost the CD and now just finally re-downloaded it to have in digital format.

 

It's such a great album. One of my all time favorites.,

 

If I could be in, or could have been as it is now, in a band that was going to do what I was most interested in, this is the model I would use.

 

Now, I bought the 2nd album (Alpha or Astra?) and I think there was maybe one song that got some very brief air and MTV play but they pretty much fell off the charts. I checked when I downloaded the eponymous album and was shocked to see that there were more albums than just those 3.

 

I think I may have listened to the 2nd album maybe a couple of times, but it just did not resonate with more nor have the impact the first did and still does.

 

Outside of Yes - and I know the "classic" era (so not Drama, and Relayer - is that it?) that is on the Yes Classics compilation, and the two "comeback" albums (90125 and Big Generator, both of which are awesome and reminds me I need to rip those CDs if I can find them), I've not found a band that represents the "perfect storm" for me that Asia's Asia does.

 

I did listen to some solo Geoff Downes, I remember Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, and Howe, but none of them was really this level of perfection for me. It just had everything I wanted in a band - ooh, and forgot to mention the great vocals.

 

So, that's my trip down memory lane, and my "dream band" if I could play with some guys who could make music like that (even if not at that level).

 

I have two requests:

 

1. Anyone who could discuss the kinds of instruments Downes was using on the album I'd love to know more about it - sounds like some real piano in addition to "electronic piano", organ, and all kind of other great sounds - but a lot of it sounds more 80s digital than 70s analog to me (or he was just that great of a craftsman with sound).

 

2. If anyone could transcribe or tell me how this ascending line on piano is played, I've always wanted to know:

 

 

I know this is one of those corny, "I like Asia do you like Asia" posts (and I don't even like Asia, just the first album ;-) but listening to it again today, it's just so good. The epitome of great keyboards in music IMHO, and especially better for me as it blends that with guitar and vocals so well.

 

 

[PianoMan51]

Well now I know what we"re going to do now that all the gigs have been canceled!

[Stokely]

Yep, love the first Asia album. The 2nd was...ok...and the 3rd--let's just pretend there wasn't one. It's about as "prog" of a band as I'd want to be in if that makes sense. I don't really have the chops for any prog at all, but I really don't like solo-oriented music. Downes can do solos but he's really good at layering melodic parts that one could maybe call "solo-ish". Richard Tandy from Elo is another one like that. You just hum the melodies and only when you really listen do you say "man, that sound pretty tough to play!"

 

Yet another keyboardist like that is Tony Kaye from yes. 90125 sure it isn't "classic yes" but I love both the keyboard parts and the sounds he gets. Other than the orchestra hits and maybe the flutes on "hearts" (everyone did those jungle flutes or whatever you'd call that back then!) it really doesn't sound dated to me at all even now.

 

 

[Dr Mike Metlay]

Interestingly, this thread got posted in the middle of a massive listenthrough of the Asia catalog that I am doing. I will refrain from doing a detailed dissection of why various albums are strong or weak, blah blah. I will just say this:

 

The first album was indeed very good and there were some nice tracks on the second, third, and on all the albums with John Payne... but the stuff they did after they got back together blew it ALL away. Phoenix, Omega, and XXX feature the original quartet absolutely knocking it out of the park, with a wonderful balance of more proggy experimental stuff and straight up power pop. If you haven't heard them, you really should. (But avoid the live albums from that era: Fantasia, Resonance, Axis, etc. They sound like four old men struggling not to have heart attacks on stage.)

 

[Stokely]

Er, wow...I admit I didn't know they did more than 3 albums! Have to give those a listen.

[GRollins]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I believe that "prog" will come back, although possibly with a different genre name. I made a prediction in a thread a while back that one of the conditions would be a downturn in the economy that would slow people down and--with more time on their hands--they would have, and take, more time to actually listen to music, rather than dance to it or use it as background for their daily lives. Like it or not, prog is "listening" music, not dance or background. To get anything from it, you have to pay attention to it, not just let it mutter away at low volume in the other room. That's why a lot of people don't like it--it demands something from the listener and they're just too distracted and/or lazy to pay proper attention.

 

And so, as I predicted, the market is down. Didn't foresee corona virus, but that will do very nicely to provide more time to contemplate...Yes?

 

 

Okay, so...Asia.

 

I confess that I found Yes to be much like the last few years of the stock market. A long, steady rise, peaking with Close To The Edge and Yessongs, then a precipitous drop with Topographic Oceans, a recovery of sorts with Relayer, then...well...I gave up on them. 90125 struck me as an attempt to remain relevant in the disco era and it worked. They survived, becoming one of the longest-lived rock bands. Good for them, but not so good for me. I hate disco and pop. Then, mirabile dictu, Steve Howe joined Asia and it was actually listenable (to me--yes, I know I'll get a bunch of hate posts telling me how great Tomatoes was, or 90210, or...).

 

So...yeah...a breath of fresh air, it was.

 

Asia doesn't quite scratch my itch the way the best Yes does, but I could definitely see myself in a band like that.

 

Now, all I need to do is find someone to take over these pesky keyboard duties so I can get back to strings, and a good drummer and a vocalist (optional?) and I'll be ready to go, right?

 

Shut it, you! A man can dream, can't he?

 

Grey

[KuruPrionz]

I saw Yes twice and am a huge Steve Howe fan. I don't play or sound like him at all but he was a HUGE influence on my guitar playing. I liked everything about Yes except the incomprehensible lyrics and often the vocals. Still, they were iconic and incredible live.

 

I saw Emerson, Lake and Palmer twice, the Brain Salad Surgery tour which was completely fantastic and a later tour that started with a full orchestra and due to poor ticket sales dwindled down to the core group. They looked and sounded beaten down by the time they reached the West Coast. Still a big fan of ELP, that was just a blip. Carl Palmer killed it on drums.

 

I saw UK with John Wetton, Eddie Jobson and Terry Bozzio opening for Jethro Tull. They were great. I am also a fan of John Wetton in King Crimson.

 

Never saw the Buggles but Video Killed The Radio Star is an awesome track and I still like it when it pops up here and there.

 

So when Asia came to town, I went!!!! I will admit to having VERY high expectations. I also was not fond of the song or two that got radio airplay and I didn't have any of their albums (and still don't). But I wanted to see what a superstar line-up like that would do live.

 

Not sure why but Steve Howe's guitar had so much reverb on it you could barely tell what he was doing (it wasn't the room, one of the Fox theaters on the West Coast and a decent sounding room for a concert).

That was disappointing. As a band, they were tight and did what needed done. It didn't seem like they had a focal point, there was no real engagement with the crowd. I am of the strong opinion that every great band needs a lead singer who is engaging and clearly "not right in the head". That was not John Wetton. He played and sang well but a pretty low charisma level. Geoff Downes took great care of all the keyboard sounds, he was a busy man but not engaging.

 

Then, they gave Carl Palmer a drum solo. He had that insane rotating turntable that went vertical and spun slowly around. And he played drums like a man possessed, on fire, killing it.

And that is the thing I remember the most about the show. It was worth it to see that.

 

At this point, if the discussion goes to "super groups" I just bring up The Travelin' Wilburys and call it good.

 

Just an opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it!! Cheers, Kuru

 

[mate stubb]

I'd never heard of UK (and actually still have never ever ever heard a song by UK in my life -

 

Here, let me fix that. I love love love Jobson's synth work on this tune!

 

[video:youtube]

[Stokely]

Also, I think Geoff Downes may hold the record for "most keyboards on a tour". He holds the record for ones I've seen or heard about at least, I'm fairly sure someone has bested it...maybe some of you! On the tour where they recorded the concert video Asia in Asia (with Greg Lake on vox instead of John Wetton) he had a straight wall across the stage of 21 keyboards, if my memory serves. Often it doesn't!

 

Edit: 28 according to him via twitter! And there was a real piano and b3 among them pretty sure.

 

This is a pic probably from that era. (ah well can't get the image link deal to work).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dk0iUxBWwAE-wLf?format=jpg&name=small

 

 

Another offshoot band involving Yes (and Genesis) that maybe nobody remembers is GTR...we used to cover "When the Heart Rules the Mind" in the 80s. That album has the distinction of being one of the worst-mixed pro albums I've heard, but I did like some of the tunes on it.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

Er, wow...I admit I didn't know they did more than 3 albums! Have to give those a listen.

I can't promise that you'll like them, but if you want to hear what those four guys in the full flower of their maturity are able to do, they are definitely worth a listen. I recommend that you find them on YouTube, give them one spin, and then buy the ones that appeal to you (if any).

 

Very quick history:

 

There are basically three versions of Asia -- the original four, the original four minus Howe, and what is now officially referred to as "Asia Featuring John Payne", which was Downes, Payne, and a huge HUGE revolving door cast of guest players, including Howe and Palmer once or twice.

 

Asia FJP did the albums Aria, Arena, Aura, Silent Nation, and a bunch of live bootlegs and archival discs, including one with John Payne versions of all of the original band's hits. They are a pretty good prog-metal band with some vaguely religious themes here and there; every one of those albums had at least one track worth revisiting, and some were quite tolerable. But they really weren't Asia, and the current band histories and official websites make this clear.

 

The original four did five albums: Asia, Alpha, Phoenix, Omega, and XXX. The first two, you all know (or should). The following three came out in a span of about five years after the band had reunited for a 25th anniversary tour. They realized they still had something, and they got it down as best they could in the studio. The albums' liner notes are self-congratulatory garbage, but thankfully the songs are pretty damn good. I consider Phoenix a stronger album than either Asia or Alpha, and Omega is right up there with it in many ways. XXX is a great disc for folks who liked their more poppy stuff; there is very little on it that is unusual or very "proggy" but the songwriting is still excellent.

 

The original four minus Howe did two albums: Astra and Gravitas. These have the benefit of the Downes/Wetton writing team, but the guitar feel is obviously quite different, and they don't have the obligatory couple of Howe tunes that the others all have. For some people, the lack of Howe utterly ruins the Asia experience; I think they aren't the band's best work by any means, but that is more due to circumstances surrounding their creation than to bad songwriting. The band was already in the process of falling apart the first time around when Astra was being recorded, and Howe just took off first... and Wetton was dying and knew it when they recorded Gravitas. He'd hoped Howe would stick around for one last album, but Howe went back to Yes.

 

If you can put yourself in the 1982 mindset, I think all of the later three original-Asia albums are really worthwhile. I would have a hard time picking out one standout track that everyone would agree on, but my personal favorite is "An Extraordinary Life" off of Phoenix. Wetton had just beaten cancer, was pretty sure it would come back and finish him eventually, and had something to say before he went. And he said it.

 

Fade out rambling...

 

 

[Mark Schmieder]

I'm a rarity in that I prefer the later line-ups, even though it took me a while to embrace that singer (well, of course, he grew and improved with experience as well).

 

Having just listened to a lot of Asia studio and live material quite recently, while trying to better understand what Carl Palmer brings to each group that he plays with, and what happens when he leaves, what struck me is that I feel no passion from the group until the late 90's through late 00's era. Just noodling and repetition.

 

So this puts me where an early commenter is, regarding the first album being pretty good, the second one being listenable, and the third being best forgotten. It just seems too calculated, so it doesn't connect... with me, at least. Even though the individual pieces of the puzzle are all there.

 

Perhaps this same line-up, with the same parts and material, might have developed a more organic end product with more longevity, if they had waited until the 90's, when the excesses of the 80's had died down and stuff was getting more stripped down and towards a more dry approach to production again.

[Mark Schmieder]

Based on both the studio material and the live work, I have always felt that GTR had the higher passion quotient of the 80's prog-dinosaur superstar groups.

 

Both Asia and GTR seemed superfluous though, as Robert Fripp had already re-formed King Crimson as its own super-group (Zappa alumni, etc.), keeping many of the prog sensibilities alive while also pulling in world influences and a bit of new wave nods (not surprising as Belew had also done work with Talking Heads).

[Baldwin Funster]

2 of Asia . The Drama album by yes. Sometimes it's my favorite YES album but that can rotate between all the 70s ones.[video:youtube]

[Motif88]

upstarts and rogues... the entire album is a masterpiece but the interplay here between Jobson and Holdsworth is spectacular-

 

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

 

[Motif88]

oh, and if you want to know what a CS-80 sounds like outside of Vangelis brass, this is the album...

[EricBarker]

Ahh, if they could have all only had the drums and bass of Yes or Rush...

 

Asia didn't really have the Bass (but the Bass tone is glorious, please tell me that's a Ric)

Not a big Asia fan and not all that familiar with their records, but I have to HIGHLY disagree about the bass PLAYER. John Wetton is one of the greats. I'd probably pick him over Greg Lake if you put a gun to my head and were comparing KingCrimson bassists. Squire is my ultimate bass player, so I can't really argue, but I'd put Wetton up there with Geddy. Check out UK, he's a MONSTER. And yes, his tone is fantastic. Suspect he was laying low in Asia just like everyone else was, more or less. He wasn't just a session guy, he was a pretty big name at the time, and was one of the ones that put the "super" in Asia's "SuperGroup" identity. Love his voice too. If we're going on voice alone, I'd say he's my favorite King Crimson voice (though Belew takes it for all around everything).

 

Once again, not very familiar with Asia, and maybe Wetton was sub-par on it, but everything else I've heard him in (namely UK and KC), has been fantastic.

[The Real MC]

GTR was the product of frustration of two guitar players - Hackett and Howe (Steve and Steve?) - over keyboard players. The GTR album was an attempt to cover keyboard sounds on guitar. They tried to tour the album but their MIDI guitars weren't reliable.

[Doerfler]

John Wetton is one of the greats.

 

Indeed. RIP

[Tusker]

GTR was the product of frustration of two guitar players - Hackett and Howe (Steve and Steve?) - over keyboard players. The GTR album was an attempt to cover keyboard sounds on guitar. They tried to tour the album but their MIDI guitars weren't reliable.

 

That's a really interesting observation. Can their approach be compared to King Crimson's two guitars - no synths approach? Apparently KC relied on the Eventide Harmonizers a great deal, but they did also use Roland guitar synths at some point didn't they?

[o0Ampy0o]

Also, I think Geoff Downes may hold the record for "most keyboards on a tour". He holds the record for ones I've seen or heard about at least, I'm fairly sure someone has bested it...maybe some of you! On the tour where they recorded the concert video Asia in Asia (with Greg Lake on vox instead of John Wetton) he had a straight wall across the stage of 21 keyboards, if my memory serves. Often it doesn't!

 

Edit: 28 according to him via twitter! And there was a real piano and b3 among them pretty sure......

Asia keys were limited and could have been covered by a single keyboard. If Downes toured with all that in Asia is was just showing off. The strong bullet points of Asia were the vocals and the compositions that brought progressive elements to the mainstream. On that first Asia album were the signatures of previous progressive rock tunes. John Wetton was the quintessential progressive rock vocalist and bassist.

[Tusker]

Does anybody remember if Asia had a track which was pretty much a Geoff Downes solo ?

 

Not sure, but I thought he contributed an orchestral keyboard track (using the Fairlight extensively) in roughly the same way that Rick Wakeman contributed Cans and Brahms to the Fragile album.

[eric]

 

Another offshoot band involving Yes (and Genesis) that maybe nobody remembers is GTR...we used to cover "When the Heart Rules the Mind" in the 80s. That album has the distinction of being one of the worst-mixed pro albums I've heard, but I did like some of the tunes on it.

 

GTR = SHT

 

[Stokely]

Does anybody remember if Asia had a track which was pretty much a Geoff Downes solo ?

 

Not sure, but I thought he contributed an orchestral keyboard track (using the Fairlight extensively) in roughly the same way that Rick Wakeman contributed Cans and Brahms to the Fragile album.

 

There was an instrumental on the first album, which I liked a lot (though I wouldn't call it a solo)...but I'll be darned if I can find it now on youtube. It was probably an intro to another song, on the second side if memory serves. I think it was between "without you" and "cutting it fine".

 

Edit: no, what I'm thinking of is after cutting it fine, and is included in that song on youtube.

 

I had the album cover art by Roger Dean on my wall as a teenager...this is one of those bands for me where the nostalgia is going to trump any discussion of musicality or quality in a critical sense Like watching Stranger Things

 

[llatham]

It's about as "prog" of a band as I'd want to be in if that makes sense.

 

Actually that makes perfect sense and it's actually a great description for what I'm going for. I might have slightly a bit more 3/4, 6/8, 7/8, 5/4 and things like that (PInk Floyd meets Asia?) but yeah, technically speaking a little more technical than Floyd, but not quite as much so as Yes or Rush, etc.

 

 

Yet another keyboardist like that is Tony Kaye from yes. 90125 sure it isn't "classic yes" but I love both the keyboard parts and the sounds he gets. Other than the orchestra hits and maybe the flutes on "hearts" (everyone did those jungle flutes or whatever you'd call that back then!) it really doesn't sound dated to me at all even now.

 

 

Even the hits on Owner of a Lonely Heart don't bother me. In fact, I agree, I love 90125 and Big Generator - it's probably the Rabin more than anything - as much as Howe was so unique in Yes, his playing can be a bit "esoteric" in many ways. It can sound a little "forced" - "ooh, let me do some classical in this song, and some jazz in this song, and some indian in this song..." Meanwhile Squire is just plugging away awesome bass lines that rock.

 

Once bitten twice shy

no no regrets at all

justice body smooth take over

 

we hit the big fields

in the blue sedan we didn't get much further.

 

!

 

[llatham]

 

So when Asia came to town, I went!!!! I will admit to having VERY high expectations.

 

You know I talk to a lot of people like you and it's very fascinating to me.

 

I'll admit, there's a difference in seeing a band live versus their record.

 

I'm totally the opposite of "you people" :-). Live shows always suck sound wise. I learned this when I was a kid. I always have low expectations going in :-)

 

And some bands just shouldn't even be seen in video or live format :-) But I don't fault bands for not having "stage presence", especially the more technical bands.

 

I NEVER make judgement calls on live shows. The album is the "permanent record" for me.

 

I stopped going to concerts years ago because of ridiculously stupid prices (with "convenience" and "parking" fees tacked on) for bands that just didn't put on good live shows (through no fault of their own) and/or who just sound terrible (through no fault of their own, or, sometimes it is their fault).

 

It's interesting how many people are so all about the live show though. Just not me.

 

 

 

[llatham]

 

Here, let me fix that. I love love love Jobson's synth work on this tune!

 

 

OK, that's nice. So it sounds like from this one brief example, that Wetton was probably a driving force for the more "poppy" aspects - the songwriting and the harmonies, etc and maybe reigned in Palmer and Howe a bit :-)

 

[llatham]

that maybe nobody remembers is GTR....

 

I remember it. I almost mentioned it but it wasn't until now my brain just went "Hackett and Howe" (because when I posted the original I was stuck on Hagar, Schon, Aaronson, and Schrieve which I knew wasn't it!).

 

[llatham]

2 of Asia . The Drama album by yes. Sometimes it's my favorite YES album but that can rotate between all the 70s ones.

 

I've actually seen this before when asking about Downes in the past.

 

I was a: Shocked that Yes were still making albums - from my perspective at the time, Yes had broken up after their high period and all the alums had been doing other things. I thought that Howe had been Jeff Becking it - just doing all kinds of different projects like GTR, Asia, and so on for longer before this stuff came out. I thought 90125 was a "comeback" album - Yes reformed without Howe (I didn't know who the original keyboard player was at the time).

 

So it's kind of like Asia - , "what, you mean there are Yes albums after Close to the Edge?!!!"

 

If you look at the charts you can kind of see my US perspective - platinum albums are the big 3, then they're gold after that. I'm surprised they charted as high a #5 with Relayer and of course 20 minute songs don't get much airplay - I've really never heard anything other than the "hits" until 90125 came out.

 

It's funny that in the UK it's the opposite - Drama at #2? Who would have thunk it!

 

I think I had heard the title for TFTO and I knew Relayer had been made because a co-worker mentioned it. But between that and 90126 I'd never heard of any of those (in fact I've never heard of Going for the One and Tormato until this thread).

 

Also everything after Big Generator - didn't even know they made any albums after that!

 

And you can see they also fall off the charts.

 

[llatham]

upstarts and rogues... the entire album is a masterpiece but the interplay here between Jobson and Holdsworth is spectacular-

 

Learning a lot from this thread. So this is what Holdsworth was doing...

 

Did you mean the CS 80 is on that album?

[timwat]

Crimson released Discipline in late 1981, and Asia released their debut in 1982. I purchased them both upon release and my memory of each contextualized my personal experience with both of them.

 

Discipline was a 'reunion' of sorts for Crimson, who I adored as a high schooler. And it went in a direction I didn't expect and it was challenging and captivating all at the same time. Sort of a "possible future of prog" moment for me.

 

At the same time I was sad for the demise of UK, which seemed to me to debut as the freshest thing I'd heard in 1978, went poppier after Bruford and Holdsworth jumped, and then disbanded. And Asia promised to be the next big prog supergroup.

 

But because of the short song, accessibility friendly nature of the 1st album, I remember listening to every track in disappointment, wishing for something with more experimentation like Crimson had done. It took me a while until I could bring more objectivity to Asia and listen on their own merits.

 

So the times influenced my appreciation of Asia, because of my own bias. I went to the first tour with the monstrous keyboard setup of Downes'. We've posted pics of that thing on this forum from time to time. It's sort of like Downes decided to tour with the entire keyboard department of a well-stocked Guitar Center - or, better stocked than any Guitar Center of the last 20 years. And I left the concert feeling like emperor's new clothes, and I suppose I still have trouble appreciating Asia on their own merits.