uhoh7 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 In an analog or hybrid instrument there are solid architectural reasons why you don"t want to dynamically allocate voices across fixed VCF and VCA resources. In a pure digital instrument, it"s usually either per-layer effects, UI complexity, or both that are the limiting factor. Running sixteen independent effects chains is still a very real computational burden and takes quite a bit of dedicated memory for delay lines. You are talking about local parts, I was talking about MIDI parts. Voices produced by other instruments. Analog/Digital has nothing to do with it, it's simply a controller capabiltiy. MIDI part = Zone in Studiologic terms. No doubt Multi-timbrality is alot harder. You don't need it at all for huge layers, you just need instruments to control. So what I am saying is: DM12 mono-timbral, I understand. Hydrasynth there is no excuse. Any board purporting usefulness as controller should be able to use MIDI channels to layer other synths on it's bed beyond two or even less. Where is my phaser? Picard.....I don't watch no stinking Picard. I grew up on the original episodes as they appeared. Picard is very hard to watch after that. Way way way too correct. Quote RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2 Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4 MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad’Dib Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Sorry to nerd out here, but i saw this keyboard in the latest episode of Star Trek Picard. It was only shown for a few seconds. Did Picard try to send SysEx? Ha ha No! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 David Emm: The chances are quite good that no one but Jarre would ever haul one of these lovely boutique beasties onstage at all. >> Barring Global Pandemic you will be seeing this board everywhere. You think it is fragile? The sample had more hands on it than..........I better not go there LOL. It isn't even expensive, compared to a nord. Its expensive compared to a wide range of somewhat lesser MPE instruments that are more readily accessible in goals and price. Its also waaaay over here from a Nord anything, heh. If its hand-made aluminum-body tough and shrugs off being dropped, then it can handle touring and my opinion is a roadkill Hot Pockets. >> Why do you think the pre-order sold out in 3 days? And the next one in less than a week? Becasue nobody is going to use it? No! I think a few serious players, some of them pro, may embrace it and knock us out. Next will come those with ready cash for weird devices, divided between, lets say, certain studio owners who like the tax break and a mixed bag of players who will range from Meh to near-Holy Bleep, the eventual range of offerings TBD. Then people like me who could scrape a bit and manage it, but would at least semi-wisely prefer a starter ROLI and a couple of new libraries for my existing tools. Then the underbelly who labor over only Volcas, UNOs and iPads, scowling at the rest of us like Gollum. Then that particular branch of modular players who don't really exist in our musical dimension anyway. >> Should we bet a 6-pack, delivered, on it's future on stage? NO! I don't imbibe anymore and besides, I need that money for a starter ROLI. I'm skeptical, but I'd love to see MPE become more recognized. Its weirdly beautiful, even though its wings aren't dry yet. Quote Do what makes you happy this week. So long as it’s not eating people. Eating people is bad. People have diseases. ~ Warren Ellis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalman Stern Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 David Emm, have you played the ROLI? I was talking to a friend who is in the know on this stuff, saying I was thinking about getting one. She asked "Do you like playing music on a water weenie?" (I assumed this meant a pool toy, in retrospect, I'm not sure what one really is, but it is evocative.) Sure enough a week or two later I played one in a store. The ROLI that is. The tactile experience of the ROLI Seaboard is nothing like a traditional keyboard and after five minutes I was thoroughly convinced it is not for me. Said friend commented on some of the alternatives. She likes the KMI keyboard, but says all the existing technologies for multidimensional expressive stuff are unreliable for live performance compared to run of the mill keybeds. For some styles this isn't too big a deal, but if precision really matters, then they're a bit of a trick. So this gets to the Osmose. If it delivers on what it is trying to do, it should be a first class keyboard with an extra dimension of expression which can be used intentionally and reliably. I of course haven't played one, but that is why I am interested in the instrument. Given the evolution of MIDI standards happening now, and the general vibrance of the synth biz, I expect we'll see a fair bit of expressive keyboard stuff coming out over the next few years. -Z- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 I think David"s comments are mostly in regard to live use ('future on stage'); perhaps even thinking specifically about most folks here that do the typical weekend gig thing. Does the EaganMatrix provide the bread and butter sounds that are needed for these type gigs? Or is the thought to midi up to another sound source? Last I remember most weren"t crazy about hauling and setting up an extra board- especially if it"s used almost exclusively as a controller. How does the Osmose feel as a piano or organ controller? Better or at least on par with what folks are currently using? Of course we all know how much everyone here adores 4 octave boards. Or maybe this is replacing that latest and greatest mono synth that you just had to have and justify. All for the glory of that added expressivity that the audience has been begging for and is so important for bringing in more income. Yeah, I kind of see where David is coming from. Btw what kind of beer we talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gd1 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 paulkondig]Sorry to nerd out here, but i saw this keyboard in the latest episode of Star Trek Picard. It was only shown for a few seconds. Did Picard try to send SysEx? Ha ha No! I saw that as well. Might have just been the angle of the shot but it looked fairly large and deep. Engage Number 1. ðºð Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 As an aside, that reminds me of playing Borderlands 3 recently, and you come across an "ancient musical instrument" at one point....a keytar It's always interesting to see what shows and movies have done over the years for "future music". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 I jumped on the preorder partly because of the preorder was just over $1000 US. Everyone has their own idea of what is expensive but I was willing to pay that for the Osmose. I tried the Haken Continuum, which runs the Eagan Matrix synth engine, at Discovery World in Milwaukee and was quickly sold on it. I guess the presets would not qualify as bread-and-butter but they're also not so experimental that you can't use them in a pop song. The Continuum with EaganMatrix feels like an instrument, in the way that the sound is so responsive to pressure, finger vibrato, etc. I read that the Expressive E and Haken folks are hard at work on presets specifically for Osmose - probably to satisfy demand for bread-and-butter presets. I'm not really pursuing virtuosity like Jordan Rudess or anything but I like the expressive potential. That guy in the Beach Boys was no virtuoso on the Ondes Martenot but he sure came up with an iconic part for "Good Vibrations". BTW, my buddies and I tried a Roli Seaboard at Chuck Levin's - we were all surprised how responsive it was, but then again it was connected to a laptop running a softsynth. I preferred the Continuum over the Roli for single note lines but it's harder to play chords on a Continuum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Expressive E announced the hardware design has been finalized. Someone else posted photos here: https://www.elektronauts.com/t/expressive-e-osmose/110993/327 This book happens to be on sale today so I"m ordering. It contains 12 piano etudes as part of the study of the Indian Melakarta system. I cannot think of a more appropriate piano lesson book to work with on the Osmose. https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/elements-of-indian-music-sheet-music/20820986 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Osmose development proceeds [video:youtube] One dissappointment, though not a deal breaker for me: "I am sorry to say that Osmose won't feature any inbuilt Sequencer or Arpeggiator, since we really focus on the intricate live playing experience on the Augmented Keyboard Action." Christopher Hans Since the controller is MPE and hi-rez, an onboard arp/sequencer would be extremely useful. Quote RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2 Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4 MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 We are nearing fall. Starting to get antsy for my Osmose. That is all. Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael_I Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Some of us are interested in this because it may NOT make those sounds. I think 1 or 2 voice subtractive knobby synthesis sounds pretty dated and flat compared to the cutting edge of what's happening. Warm and fat, yes. But not nuanced and interesting. Triangle leads that sear one's face off are great with a band at full tilt, but there's no timbral joy in the raw sound. It's not that there are no good sounds or memories, but frankly many of the old sounds are not interesting, lack dynamics, and interesting timbral complexity. They are the right sounds for 20-25 years of pop music, but I don't think they will be defining sounds moving forward. If you listen to modern electronic genres, there's a lot more than old mono and poly sounds going on. There's a lot of room for other sounds. At this point, I think of synthesis technologies as having sonic tendencies, and then using them accordingly. Subtractive analog has a "thing", but so does granular synthesis, FM, PM, etc. Each useful in its own way. I am most interested in new - legacy poly stuff is done to death. But that said, even the old poly/monos would be transformed with modern digital control and modulation capabilities. The devices that offer "modular style" destination-based modulation like the Solaris, Iridium, and the Eagan Matrix are capable of significant nuance. These are all digital synths. The Yamaha Montage and Non-Linear Labs C15 both share the "meta controller" paradigm, where a limited number of macro controls then feed a second layer of modulation. This is the way forward, I think. It will be applied to analog synths, and add new life to old architectures, I think. But whether I'm right or wrong about any of that, I wanted this "Because" it had the EaganMatrix. I've always liked the sounds that Continuum players get. If I can have that, but on a regular keyboard, that sounds ideal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Does the EaganMatrix provide the bread and butter sounds that are needed for these type gigs? Some of us are interested in this because it may NOT make those sounds. I think 1 or 2 voice subtractive knobby synthesis sounds pretty dated and flat compared to the cutting edge of what's happening. Warm and fat, yes. But not nuanced and interesting. Triangle leads that sear one's face off are great with a band at full tilt, but there's no timbral joy in the raw sound. It's not that there are no good sounds or memories, but frankly many of the old sounds are not interesting, lack dynamics, and interesting timbral complexity. They are the right sounds for 20-25 years of pop music, but I don't think they will be defining sounds moving forward. If you listen to modern electronic genres, there's a lot more than old mono and poly sounds going on. There's a lot of room for other sounds. At this point, I think of synthesis technologies as having sonic tendencies, and then using them accordingly. Subtractive analog has a "thing", but so does granular synthesis, FM, PM, etc. Each useful in its own way. I am most interested in new - legacy poly stuff is done to death. But that said, even the old poly/monos would be transformed with modern digital control and modulation capabilities. The devices that offer "modular style" destination-based modulation like the Solaris, Iridium, and the Eagan Matrix are capable of significant nuance. These are all digital synths. The Yamaha Montage and Non-Linear Labs C15 both share the "meta controller" paradigm, where a limited number of macro controls then feed a second layer of modulation. This is the way forward, I think. It will be applied to analog synths, and add new life to old architectures, I think. But whether I'm right or wrong about any of that, I wanted this "Because" it had the EaganMatrix. I've always liked the sounds that Continuum players get. If I can have that, but on a regular keyboard, that sounds ideal to me. Well put Nathanael. My question/comment wasn't intended as a criticism of the Osmose but more an observation that it's easy to be enamored by one aspect of a product and not look at the whole picture. You obviously have this well thought out and I look forward to your impressions once you get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael_I Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 What I suspect will happen is that it is going to be complex enough that it is going to take a bit to sort out the synth engine.... That seems to be the reports of Continuum owners. Super powerful. But also with some attendant complexity. So, we shall see, but I am excited for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I wanted this "Because" it had the EaganMatrix. I've always liked the sounds that Continuum players get. If I can have that, but on a regular keyboard, that sounds ideal to me. I like the sound also. But I am not eagerly awaiting the interface. The Osmose itself is some flavor of MPE, which may not be optimally sequenced from any other controllers. A simple idea would be to include a sequencer or at the very least an arp. That way you can let one of your two parts do some nice background patterns. But it turns out a arp is unclean in the eaganmatrix weltanschauung. Watching the glazed faces of participants at Eganmatrix events is not inspiring to me in the least, though I don't question there is some great stuff in there someplace, once you learn all the incantations. I will be learning them, but please don't expect me to enjoy it all that much.....and stop wishing for some more knobs and sliders to avoid menu diving. Subtractive synthesis is just a model for digtal interfaces now, though that old stuff is getting plenty of use. Access, Waldorf, etc just use the subtractive model as a framework, around which many unique forms of synthesis exist. My virus TI has more ways to tweak and create sounds than I care to think about, with 16 parts, and the abilty to bring in and manipulate many different sources. All with limited menu diving. Waldorf has more diving, but also more sublte choices in some areas. With eagan I don't see where you can come up for air and play while designing sounds. But since my expectations are so low, I will probably love it. But at this moment I will pay the rest of the money for the keybed, in spite of the eganmatrix. A real test will be to see how many parameters in the synth can be midi mapped to something like a behringer BCR2000, so those not enmoured of pixels can avoid them. Despite my whining I have no thought of cancelling my pre-order, that's for sure. Let not the perfect be the enemy of the unprecedented. Quote RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2 Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4 MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 We are nearing fall. Starting to get antsy for my Osmose. That is all. I have one coming as well. I wanted this "Because" it had the EaganMatrix. I've always liked the sounds that Continuum players get. If I can have that, but on a regular keyboard, that sounds ideal to me. I'm really not that worried about the programming side - I just wanna play the thing. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Short email update from Expressive E: ⦠the team has been focused on the fine-tuning of the UI and keyboard finish. We"ve also enhanced some key sensitivity features to adapt the playing experience to meet your specific needs., and we"ve finished the development of new external features that allow Osmose to better interact with your plugins and hardware. Can't blame 'em for throwing in that little tease. We know that Haken Continuum - which as we know by now is a close relative of Osmose - has an add-on unit that gives in CV ins and outs. So that's one possible new "external feature". I guess another is a VST and/or AU plugin that can be used to send high-res MIDI controller data to other plugins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gaia Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 The CV integration is an interesting possibility. MIDI 2.0 would be another. I"m very much looking forward to finding out more and getting this beast in my hands just as soon as it can be arranged. Day one ore-order, which would likely have been the case just as a controller given the steep initial discount - but Eagan Matrix isn"t some small bonus. It"s a fascinating piece of the puzzle that feels like it pushes the instrument into the solidly purchasable category even at full retail price. Crazier still? The UI fragments we"ve seen suggest that other synthesis engines could also be developed and added. I wish I believed October was likely, but I can easily see this slipping a couple of months. I certainly hope not! Quote Acoustic: Shigeru Kawai SK-7 ~ Breedlove C2/R MIDI: Kurzweil Forte ~ Sequential Prophet X ~ Yamaha CP88 ~ Expressive E Osmose Electric: Schecter Solo Custom Exotic ~ Chapman MLB1 Signature Bass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Here's the existing Continuum Voltage converter for reference. Not cheap, but those who already have the CV gear may want it anyway. 4 CV outs for each of the W, X, Y, and Z dimensions of control https://www.hakenaudio.com/voltage-converter Someone more eagle-eyed than myself pointed out that it already has Osmose support: Ultra-fast Communications The CVC is built around i2c chips which communicate directly with the Continuum, ContinuuMini, or Osmose at 400kHz data rate. Simplified Cabling This third generation CVC provides both DIN5 and 3.5mm i2c connection options, allowing direct connection to all generations of Continuums, ContinuuMini, and Osmose without custom cables. SPECIFICATIONS Communication Rate: 440 kbaud Interface: i2c link to Continuum, ContinuuMini, or Osmose (DIN5 and 3.5 mm) Control Voltage Output: Sixteen 16-bit D/As, each -9.9 V to +10 V Power: 10 W, 110 or 220 Vac Size: 38.1 x 15.3 x 4.4 cm (15 x 6 x 1.73 inches) Weight: 90 g (3 oz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Just revisiting here.... I played a ROLI Block and as with Francis Preve's review, I had to locate and turn off the side-to-side parameter. It made everything slide around to excess. Long-short: IMO, its not worth the effort of trying to play it as a keyboard, but click two of them together and those 4 octaves become a superior way to present strings, brass, woodwinds and many synth sounds. (4 would seem like a bare minimum for solo brass, quartets, etc.) That *would* be worth the time, because the expressiveness is hypnotic. You can make unique use of it as a synth, but it seems at its emulative best with orchestral instruments. Take my view as a grain-of-salt thing, as I only got 2 hours with it. A damned lovely 2 hours, though. Still, I feel like more of an Osmose player. I'll let you know 2 weeks after that never happens. Quote Do what makes you happy this week. So long as it’s not eating people. Eating people is bad. People have diseases. ~ Warren Ellis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanyo Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Ugh, this keyboard is an abomination to music. Almost as much as that Seaboard or that ROLI thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Ugh, this keyboard is an abomination to music. Almost as much as that Seaboard or that ROLI thing. Really? I"d say the only 'abomination' is trying and expecting to use these tools as conventional keyboards. The near endless possibilities they bring are intriguing and potentially open new performance approaches and sounds. The very essence of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Ugh, this keyboard is an abomination to music. Almost as much as that Seaboard or that ROLI thing. Vanyo, would you care to elaborate? I'm interested why your dislike is so strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Ugh, this keyboard is an abomination to music. Almost as much as that Seaboard or that ROLI thing. Really? I"d say the only 'abomination' is trying and expecting to use these tools as conventional keyboards. The near endless possibilities they bring are intriguing and potentially open new performance approaches and sounds. The very essence of music. Maybe he just wants it multicolored like your Moog Matriarch. Matriarch + Osmose would be a sweet duo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalman Stern Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Expressive E already offers 4 CV outputs on the Touché touch controller. Pretty sure they're familiar with the concept. -Z- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Expressive E already offers 4 CV outputs on the Touché touch controller. Pretty sure they're familiar with the concept. -Z- On previous page of the thread, there was a link posted to Haken Voltage Converter (CVC). Click on that link and you will see Osmose mentioned 3 times. There is no sign of CV jacks on the back panel photos shared by Expressive E to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 November newsletter came today - second wave of lockdowns in France has set things back again. At this point they are done with design and are trying to move through the manufacturing challenges. Meanwhile, a new sound development video to soothe us: [video:youtube] [video:youtube] Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Love both demos, but it was nice to see the demo of Osmose as an MPE controller for IRCAM Solo Instruments 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielCoulson92 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 November newsletter came today - second wave of lockdowns in France has set things back again. At this point they are done with design and are trying to move through the manufacturing challenges. Meanwhile, a new sound development video to soothe us: [video:youtube] [video:youtube] Great news, those demos look great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 The Clavichord is BACK!!!! With a vengence. Oh yes. Voltaire would be on the short list, with me. Quote RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2 Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4 MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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