J. Dan Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 THIS had many of the common recognizable red flags that would make me not just walk, but run away. Many of these red flags have been discussed within the context of specific experiences, but I thought it might be fun to compile a list of common red flags that occur across many situations. I'll start: 1) Singing Unison parts where harmonies should be 2) Leaving out harmonies when 4 members of the band have vocal mics 3) Over-Use of effects (on anything, whether vocals or instruments) 4) Not prepared for practice/doing "your own version" of it when it's obvious that you just didn't take the time to learn it 5) Timing issues. In my experience, those usually don't work themselves out. You can improve slightly, but it's kind of like Herpes, it's always going to be there 6) Obvious inability to comprehend which song selections will go over and be successful (if it's a cover band) 7) Obvious tensions between band members 8) Lack of basic understanding/knowledge of common tools of the trade (i.e. mixer, EQ, DI, avoiding feedback with mics, common language used, etc). Some of these individually on their face might not be a big deal, but usually they point to other issues that probably won't go away. When you start seeing more than one, or even more than a few, usually it's time to go. Quote Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Your singer has 3 or 4 kids. Doesnt mean it cant work but its harder People not learning parts Singers calling audibles live because they arent sure of a verse of song on the set list. Bad judgement in calling songs, reading the audience wrong Guitar players and their insistence on having certain things their way Musicians and just plain lack of knowledge of music Musicians overplaying, no awareness of other people on stage Bad musical maturity or immature musicality Tuning constantly on stage Previewing the next song because they arent sure of it so they play a few notes. Sounds amateurish. No awareness at a venue, carrying themselves bad in front of staff Passive-aggressiveness towards other band members just to avoid confrontation. Also trying to draw sides between band members Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Showing up late consistently during rehearsals "Noodling" during rehearsals Unequitable share of setup/teardown effort at gigs Obvious: no sense of what's an appropriate volume. Personal one for me: the guy/girl responsible for starting the song is perfectly happy to allow 30 seconds of silence to check everyone's ready before: setting their amp to the new sound/switching guitars/retuning/whatever. If you start the song, get on with it. Then there's the compatibility issue of your own vs the band's musical standard. (I've had to explain what a minor seventh is to a guitar player on more than one occasion. And how to play F on the A string on the bass. The second chord in the bridge to Superstition is a good litmus test, as is the transition from the second to third line of "Easy Like Sunday Morning" for drummers). That's more of a subjective/circumstance thing. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 I sat in with a blues band (3 piece plus singer) at a casino gig. The lead singer diva (wife of the guitar player/leader) was against it from the get-go but the BL wanted the gig to be "extra special" and must have talked her into it. Before we even started she told me to just play chords, lay out if I couldn't perceive the changes, don't get in the way, and if I didn't know the song, don't play at all. Remember, this is blues, folks. Oh, and they gave me this 2" ring binder with the charts all in set order. Most organized bunch of 3-chord tune players I've ever seen. End of the first set, the band guys dug everything, but she tells me I'm over-playing. Solution? I got the sound guy to take me out of her monitor mix. End of Set 2, she says "hey, that sounded great - thanks for being so cooperative!" Now, which red flag should I have seen again? Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 Now, which red flag should I have seen again? The lead singer diva (wife of the guitar player/leader) was against it from the get-go Quote Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane hugo Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 [font:Century Gothic]cocaine[/font] Quote http://blip.fm/invite/WorkRelease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyNQ Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Rehearsal time is very revealing. Does the band just meander through without purpose or do they turn up with an agenda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I did this thread! https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2845574/1 Quote Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 Yeah I felt like there was another one but was maybe lazy in my search. Quote Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 [font:Century Gothic]cocaine[/font] Depends, LOL. Actually, in all seriousness, for sure chemical addictions are a red flag but it can be literally anything - alcohol, Coke, weed, meth, heroin.....even things like sex or gambling. Addiction is a whole other topic, and can manifest in many ways, but yes....is a red flag. Quote Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I sat in with a blues band (3 piece plus singer) at a casino gig. made the gig special, for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonnor Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Drummer can't play an in-time triplet. (pet peave - at which point I will usually start comping non-stop in 6/8 over his 4/4). Quote Gear: Hardware: Nord Stage3, Korg Kronos 2, Novation Summit Software: Cantabile 3, Halion Sonic 3 and assorted VST plug-ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 [font:Century Gothic]cocaine[/font] Depends, LOL. Actually, in all seriousness, for sure chemical addictions are a red flag but it can be literally anything - alcohol, Coke, weed, meth, heroin.....even things like sex or gambling. Addiction is a whole other topic, and can manifest in many ways, but yes....is a red flag. It is when it affects the project. I really don't care what people do but if you make your business my business watch out as you will be confronted. Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_tour Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Solution? I got the sound guy to take me out of her monitor mix. End of Set 2, she says "hey, that sounded great - thanks for being so cooperative!" I've got to know: how did you manage to get the sound guy to do that? Folded up bill/small sack of weed/whatever passed in "secret handshake" fashion? Or maybe he just figured out the "issue" with the diva by observation and was on board (so to speak) with your suggestion from the get-go. //////// my own red flag is when people (could be any instrumentalist or singer, but usually guitar) INSIST that the way they're spelling out the chords is the one true path, and any other discussion is unnecessary. I've never deliberately corrected people IRL (sure, I speak jive singer/songwriter as good as anybody), just so long as it sounds good, but if me and the bassist are discussing something, butting in and saying "look, it's simple, it's just ." Fine, I get it, but the adults are talking, so just shut up for a second. ////// about the drugs/booze/video poker/whatever: it doesn't bother me, except when the first forty-five minutes (or longer!) of rehearsing are spent communally in a cloud of weed smoke. In fact, any amount of time is too much. Having a can of beer on the floor in a rehearsal is cool, just don't expect me to be waiting for you to chug six of them Animal House-style and then head out for a smoke break before playing note one of tune one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 [font:Century Gothic]cocaine[/font] Depends, LOL. Actually, in all seriousness, for sure chemical addictions are a red flag but it can be literally anything - alcohol, Coke, weed, meth, heroin.....even things like sex or gambling. Addiction is a whole other topic, and can manifest in many ways, but yes....is a red flag. It is when it affects the project. I really don't care what people do but if you make your business my business watch out as you will be confronted. Same here. I am not shy about confronting an addiction problem when it impacts the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFF Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 How about this... The guy who started the band can't read music, doesn't know how measures are structured so was often lost or coming in at the wrong time, had trouble staying in pitch when singing, and had the idea that we were mostly instrumental to his vocals. The reason he got as far with us as he did was his lyrics to original songs, which were great. But for me the kicker was his explanation that various famous people who've made it really big in music had little to no music training.....! Yeah, so that means he has a shot- He didn't want to hear that those people had a ton of natural talent- Quote Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425 Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Applies to cover bands: addition to alcohol and/or narcoticsguitar hero attention whore disposition, insists on playing songs that are fun to play on guitarguitar player who insists on using an overly loud guitar amp in a small clubguitar player who insists on a rhythm tone and/or playing style that overwhelms the sonic spectrum which crowds out other instrumentsguitar player running sound from stagesoundman who is either incompetent, or focuses more on his buddy in the band and not the groupsonglist is heavy on songs that has no appeal to audience or that audience doesn't knowsonglist is heavy on songs with a tempo that audience can't dance todrummer is incapable of playing a slow songdrummer is incapable of keeping a steady tempomusicians who open a song at a tempo that is too slow/fastmusicians who play louder than rest of band and won't turn downmusicians whose instrument tone doesn't fit the band mix and they won't changemusicians who refuse to accept constructive advicespends three minutes between every song deciding what to play nexthas no concept of seguing short songs together to keep audience on the dance floornepotism - weak/incompetent musician is in the band because of relation to someone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Solution? I got the sound guy to take me out of her monitor mix. End of Set 2, she says "hey, that sounded great - thanks for being so cooperative!" I've got to know: how did you manage to get the sound guy to do that? Folded up bill/small sack of weed/whatever passed in "secret handshake" fashion? Or maybe he just figured out the "issue" with the diva by observation and was on board (so to speak) with your suggestion from the get-go. He knew me from a couple of other bands playing at that casino. The first friend you make is the sound guy. Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 The first friend you make is the sound guy. This, every time. A band I was with laughed when I was introduced to the resident sound engineer. "Hi I'm Mike, nice to meet you. Can I buy you a drink?" He ended up unplugging a wedge and digging out a cable to give me an aux mix from the console into my headphone amp. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 The first friend you make is the sound guy. Honestly, for younger folks scrolling through this forum, this is probably the most important piece of advice you can get. Quote Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elif Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 ...The guy who started the band can't read music, doesn't know how measures are structured so was often lost or coming in at the wrong time, had trouble staying in pitch when singing, and had the idea that we were mostly instrumental to his vocals. The reason he got as far with us as he did was his lyrics to original songs, which were great. But for me the kicker was his explanation that various famous people who've made it really big in music had little to no music training.....! Yeah, so that means he has a shot- He didn't want to hear that those people had a ton of natural talent- It can happen, but they'll need a little help. Doors drummer John Densmore talks about Jim Morrison's talent (48sec): [video:youtube]https://youtu.be/JrMi3jt9EeI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountFosco Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Honestly, for younger folks scrolling through this forum, this is probably the most important piece of advice you can get. I doubt a younger folk made it three posts into this Statler and Waldorf thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Link Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 This was not exactly a red flag at the beginning of the band relationship, but along with some new tinnitus certainly helped in making the decision to bail out. We"re covering Linda Ronstadt"s version of 'Back In The USA'. I"ve spent a considerable amount of time and effort to get at least an approximation of the fabulous piano fills. Guitar player is playing over EVERY ONE of them. I more or less politely ask what the f*ck he"s doing. 'Oh, I found this great live version with Chuck Berry and Keith Richards with Linda Ronstadt!' That"s about the most guitar-asshole statement I"ve ever heard. Quote aka âmisterdregsâ Nord Electro 5D 73 Yamaha P105 Kurzweil PC3LE7 Motion Sound KP200S Schimmel 6-10LE QSC CP-12 Westone AM Pro 30 IEMs Rolls PM55P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuelBLupowitz Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Honestly, for younger folks scrolling through this forum, this is probably the most important piece of advice you can get. I doubt a younger folk made it three posts into this Statler and Waldorf thread. How young is "younger?" Don't answer that. Quote Samuel B. Lupowitz Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
area51recording Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Big one for me: Drummer can't play a shuffle with a decent feel (WHY is that so hard?) Also: If there's a girl in the band who is single, it's DEATH for anyone in the band to become romantically involved w/her.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Link Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Big one for me: Drummer can't play a shuffle with a decent feel (WHY is that so hard?) Also: If there's a girl in the band who is single, it's DEATH for anyone in the band to become romantically involved w/her.... Even worse if she"s NOT single and someone gets romantically involved with her! Quote aka âmisterdregsâ Nord Electro 5D 73 Yamaha P105 Kurzweil PC3LE7 Motion Sound KP200S Schimmel 6-10LE QSC CP-12 Westone AM Pro 30 IEMs Rolls PM55P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
area51recording Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Big one for me: Drummer can't play a shuffle with a decent feel (WHY is that so hard?) Also: If there's a girl in the band who is single, it's DEATH for anyone in the band to become romantically involved w/her.... Even worse if she"s NOT single and someone gets romantically involved with her! Too true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 4) Not prepared for practice/doing "your own version" of it when it's obvious that you just didn't take the time to learn itThis is the one that causes acid to pour into my stomach. In just about any given week, I have a number of other things I could re-prioritize if I know someone won't be able to learn their parts, not to mention the additional time wasted at rehearsal floundering through songs. I get that life circumstances can intervene and take away from personal practice time, but I have low tolerance when this is not communicated to the rest of the band within a reasonable period before rehearsal. I mean, how long does it take to fire off a text to let everyone know? An alternate/contingency plan can then be developed. Otherwise, it smacks of "my time is more important than your time" and is just plain inconsiderate/disrespectful. Quote "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Big one for me: Drummer can't play a shuffle with a decent feel (WHY is that so hard?) Also: If there's a girl in the band who is single, it's DEATH for anyone in the band to become romantically involved w/her.... Even worse if she"s NOT single and someone gets romantically involved with her! Too true! Or, of the two of them, she"s the only one that swings. Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richforman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Moonglow, man can I relate to that and have often said the same thing. I can honestly understand if other factors are gonna prevent a band member from learning the song we all agreed to by the scheduled rehearsal date, but just communicate that reality honestly with a few days' lead time, so we can (my preference if it's an established band and no new material is going to be worked) cancel/reschedule the rehearsal instead of coming down and wasting everybody's time. Mr. Dregs, sorry your guitarist messed it up but anyway that's cool that you guys are covering that track, I LOVE Linda Ronstadt's version of Back in the USA, one of the all-time great r&r piano tracks. Linda had an amazing track record of covering songs that were already great to begin with and creating versions that were pretty undeniably even better than the original, including that one, "Ooh Baby Baby," "Poor Poor Pitiful Me," "That'll Be The Day," and more. Quote Rich Forman Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand, Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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