MotiDave Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Anyone care? We havent had a spirited PPA thread in a couple weeks, were overdue... The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Just looking at the specs & controls, they kinda look like a "rev 2" of the older K speakers. 1000 watts total vs 2000 watts for the K.2s... I wonder what that means in the real world (my guess: not a whole lot unless you need ear-bleed loud). No direct outs, which both K series have. Like the original Ks, the "aux" input shares an input gain control with the line combo jack input (K.2s have a dedicated level control). The aux input is now a 3.5mm instead of two rca jacks which the original Ks had. The coverage is 90° vs 105° for both K8 series. Again, I'm not sure about the real-world implication of that 7.5° less on each side, a big deal? I have no idea. All in all, for someone like me that does tone shaping in the box, and needs only clean amplification and nice full-range sound, these seem like pretty minor diffs. The unknown (at the moment) is obviously the drivers, as imo they would have the most impact on sound quality. I guess we'll have to wait until the reports come in. If they're like the ones in the original Ks, I think these new CPs would be serious competition for the lower-end EVs. I have to wonder though they shaved 6 lbs off the K8 & 8.2's weight. A less beefy woofer? This I know my original (and, nine-year-old!) K8s are going strong. They sound fine to me too, so I have no reason to look at any alternatives right now. I'm still very curious to see what these new QSCs do to the lower end of the powered PA market. Let the speculating begin something we're all good at here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBrooks Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 CP8 is very close to EV ZXA1 in dimensions and weight and the same price in the UK at least. Will be interested to hear any impressions as I was just about to spring for the EV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Anyone care? We havent had a spirited PPA thread in a couple weeks, were overdue... Let the speculating begin something we're all good at here! I was wondering where this would go when I got the announcement e mail today. Certainly looks like a good "bang for the buck". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPN21 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 If the sound quality of the CP Series is the same as the K.2, this will work better for me; lighter weight & lower price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazerkeys Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 wonder how it would be for a vocal monitor (classic rock band here) .. been using a Galaxy "hot spot" which is "OK" .. but thinking the 8" QSC CP (399 online) might be good fit ? PC1x, Hammond XK1c, Deep Mind 6, MS500 (gig rig) Kurz PC4, Mini Moog Model D, Little Phatty, Hammond M3, Leslie 145, viscount op-3, Behringer model D, Roland GAIA.. (home studio) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBrooks Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I've ordered one of these and the EV ZxA1, with the aim of keeping whichever one I like most. Use case is a keyboard monitor for low/medium volumes. I'll try and provide some A/B feedback over the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 If the sound quality of the CP Series is the same as the K.2, this will work better for me; lighter weight & lower price. It's almost half the price of the K.2 if the sound quality is the same, I think it would work better for everybody! Why would any company bring out a product that cannibalizes sales of another product they sell? It will be interesting to hear how close they get the K.2s, I think but I wouldn't expect them to sound alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjosko Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Its very tempting. I am about to justify myself a pair of K2, now this show up. The interesting thing for me are, how would they sound on the piano? Many low/midrange speaker do sound honky on a ap patch (like my SS3). /Bjørn - old gearjunkie, still with lot of GAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalman Stern Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Why would any company bring out a product that cannibalizes sales of another product they sell? It will be interesting to hear how close they get the K.2s, I think but I wouldn't expect them to sound alike. The K.2's have more features and ruggedness plus a bit more power. If you're a venue or serious touring outfit, the difference in price is likely worth it. I expect the main reason QSC is doing the CP series is because there is massive competition in this space now and they have to introduce new products and answer a variety of price points. Re: sound quality, they make it clear the speaker lines are different enough that mixing and matching CP with K.2's is not going to give great results. So even if both are really good, they're different. And different in sound *always* means someone will make the case that one is better than the other. Given my experience with an EV ELX series 12-inch powered speaker, my first question is how much hiss noise these have when nothing is being played through them. The EV sounds fine as a monitor, but the noise is just high enough to be annoying when sitting next to it waiting to start the next song... -Z- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotiDave Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 If the sound quality of the CP Series is the same as the K.2, this will work better for me; lighter weight & lower price. It's almost half the price of the K.2 if the sound quality is the same, I think it would work better for everybody! Why would any company bring out a product that cannibalizes sales of another product they sell? It will be interesting to hear how close they get the K.2s, I think but I wouldn't expect them to sound alike. just curious - why would you expect it to have the same sound quality as Kx.2? The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 If the sound quality of the CP Series is the same as the K.2, this will work better for me; lighter weight & lower price. It's almost half the price of the K.2 if the sound quality is the same, I think it would work better for everybody! Why would any company bring out a product that cannibalizes sales of another product they sell? It will be interesting to hear how close they get the K.2s, I think but I wouldn't expect them to sound alike. just curious - why would you expect it to have the same sound quality as Kx.2? That question is for MPN21, not me, I assume. I would certainly NOT expect it to have the same sound quality as the K.2s (which is exactly what I said in my previous post). Then again I've read posts saying people liked the ZxA1 more than the original K8. After a certain minimum spec profile, who's to say what "quality sound" is? If these speakers put a smile on your face then they sound good, or "better" than the other brand. I'm happy to see more choices at this lower price point anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotiDave Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 That question is for MPN21, not me, I assume. I would certainly NOT expect it to have the same sound quality as the K.2s (which is exactly what I said in my previous post). Then again I've read posts saying people liked the ZxA1 more than the original K8. After a certain minimum spec profile, who's to say what "quality sound" is? If these speakers put a smile on your face then they sound good, or "better" than the other brand. I'm happy to see more choices at this lower price point anyway. ahhh, they got me again with the ol' quote-within-the-quote trick! i'm not that bright, i've been trying to hide it ... more better choices is more good, 100% agree. The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPN21 Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 If the sound quality of the CP Series is the same as the K.2, this will work better for me; lighter weight & lower price. It's almost half the price of the K.2 if the sound quality is the same, I think it would work better for everybody! Why would any company bring out a product that cannibalizes sales of another product they sell? It will be interesting to hear how close they get the K.2s, I think but I wouldn't expect them to sound alike. just curious - why would you expect it to have the same sound quality as Kx.2? Maybe it's my wishful thinking but I was assuming that QSC is able to offer the CP series with the sound quality up there with the K series but with less features and power wattage. I was looking into the IP300 by Turbo Sound ($399), but I am going to wait until I know more about the CP8. In addition to the lower price of the CP8, it is 10 pounds lighter than the K, which is an important factor for someone at my age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotiDave Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Ive had a ELX112P for awhile - its just a tad bigger and heavier than i want as i use it as a personal kbd monitor only for 95% of the time. Thinking to add a good 10 for majority if local gigs with FOH. I wonder why QSC only offers an 8 and 12 in this line? The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 The ZAX1 pretty much had the "decent, small PA cab" thing to themselves for a while. Now QSC has decided to play. Consumers win with more choices, as always. The QSC has an advantage of being a much more recent design. Neither one are really my thing, though. Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Maybe it's my wishful thinking but I was assuming that QSC is able to offer the CP series with the sound quality up there with the K series but with less features and power wattage. Doesn't look like it will sound nearly as good as the K8.2, if you look at the frequency response charts. https://www.qsc.com/resource-files/productresources/spk/k.2/q_spk_k2_specs.pdf https://www.qsc.com/resource-files/productresources/spk/cp/q_spk_cp_specs.pdf I don't know about how it compares to the original K8, but if it was "only" as good as that, I'd take the ZXa1. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Scott, those links you posted were truncated and come up 404s. Were these the ones you meant to point to? - https://www.qsc.com/resource-files/productresources/spk/k.2/q_spk_k2_specs.pdf https://www.qsc.com/resource-files/productresources/spk/cp/q_spk_cp_specs.pdf I had some free time (like most full-time musicians I know these days ) and like to goof around with video editing software, so I made this youtube comparing the FR graphs of the K8.2 and CP8. I superimposed the two graphs to match the measurement points as best as possible. It looks like the CP8 is about 5db down (average) across the whole range compared to the K8.2. I wonder why they didn't normalize levels (i.e. give the CP a little boost) so you could see the CP8's response curve when most of it was as near to 0db as possible. There's probably an explanation that's above my pay grade. My takeaway, as a layperson with much interest but less knowledge of acoustics and electronics, is this: when it comes to uniformity of response, the K8.2 seems to win hands down between 200Hz and 15Khz the plot doesn't seem to vary by more than 2db or so. But that red line (the "full range" setting) gets pretty hilly around 90Hz - is this a result of the drivers + cab, or is it an eq adjustment designed into the DSP to make this 8" guy impress in the low end? In any event it looks like the "80Hz" crossover setting (blue line) tames that bump (but shaves a few Hz of low-end response too). The CP8 has two distinct valleys in its curve, at around 600Hz and 8KHz. Hey, maybe that'll make acoustic piano samples sound a little better! I will await the reports. I'll guess that this makes the speaker less "studio monitor"-like than the K8.2. I'll also say this - measurements, graphs, etc. can be useful to a degree but don't necessarily correlate to whether a speaker will put a smile on your face when you're on stage (IMHO). That's always the bottom line with me. Not to mention we're comparing a $400 speaker to a $750 speaker. [video:youtube] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Scott, those links you posted were truncated and come up 404s. Were these the ones you meant to point to? whoops, yes, fixed I think the real issue with the CP is the peak at 300 Hz declining rapidly to 500 Hz, such that you've got what looks like a roughly 5-6 dB difference between 300 Hz and 500 Hz. It may still sound perfectly good for lots of stuff, and may be fine compared to other stuff at its price, but it's not going to sound as flat/neutral as an 8.2, and I'd expect you'd certainly notice the difference with piano. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 FWIW, the FR graph of the ZXA1. Quickly comparing these curves, it looks like the CP8 has more low end. The EV also seems to have a peak around 400Hz but after that doesn't skew down as much as the CP8. The rest of the curve seems to show a pretty uneven response through 20K, with several hills & valleys that vary over 4 - 5db. It looks like the CP8 has a more even response between 800Hz and 5Khz. The question is, how much does all this matter? Especially to me & my laptop where I can seperately EQ every plug-in or every patch within a plugin. Still, it seems like the less expensive a speaker is, the "squigglier" it's FR curve looks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Thanks for comparisons on the CP vs. K. Nice to see data that confirms what my ears are telling me! Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotiDave Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 I asked the guy in Pro Audio about the CPs yesterday while picking up MODX. he said they sound like original K's but not quite. I asked if they were a bit "bright" like original K-series in upper mid-freq, he said yeah. he said if i didn't like K-8, this would be a bit less enjoyable still. For a monitor - it light and great price - would work fine but depends on what quality of sound you want to hear. The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 That being said, I continue to be incredibly happy with the K8.2s in monitor roles when IEMs aren't being used. Last weekend I played a festival gig with decent FOH, and had just one plopped by my side. Clear, accurate sound all night long, even when things got a bit noisy on stage. Didn't even begin to get into its full volume. At the other end of the spectrum, my cocktail vocal trio is now rehearsing with them, and they love the crisp, accurate sound. I'm not saying that the new CPs are not good for the price, just that you often get what you pay for in life. Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 That being said, I continue to be incredibly happy with the K8.2s in monitor roles when IEMs aren't being used. Last weekend I played a festival gig with decent FOH, and had just one plopped by my side. Clear, accurate sound all night long, even when things got a bit noisy on stage. Didn't even begin to get into its full volume. At the other end of the spectrum, my cocktail vocal trio is now rehearsing with them, and they love the crisp, accurate sound. I'm not saying that the new CPs are not good for the price, just that you often get what you pay for in life. It's still nice to have more options at a lower price point. You may well get what you pay for, but not everyone can afford TT08As or the like. Even for, say, a pair of DXR10s, that's $1200 plus stands, etc. Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBrooks Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 So, I got the CP8 and the ZXa1. From different stores, but each store allowed hassle-free returns. I had a brief A/B session. Zxa1 sounded sweeter for Nord APs, that's all I can really say. I couldn't test volume/breakup at all. Unfortunately the ZXa1 developed a fault after about 10 minutes, so that's going back to the store! One of my main use cases is relatively low-volume APs at home. So I'm tempted to order another ZXa1. But I'm leaning towards the CP8, because: (1) It's a bit heavier but definitely much more compact than the ZXa1. And it has a proper handle. (2) I like the fact that both inputs accept jack leads. It means I can feed it 2 x mono layers from my Nord with the exact same gain. (3) The level of static hiss was MUCH lower than ZXa1. Almost imperceptible. (4) CP8 still sounds OK to my ears on piano. At the end of the day, I can only afford one, and the mono APs are never ever going to sound anywhere near as good as they do in stereo through headphones or monitor speakers. I've still got about 25 days or so before I have to make a choice to commit to the CP8 or not. Grateful for any other views if they've heard both. I appreciate the K8s would be much better but don't have budget/space for those really. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBrooks Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 ...so to continue this story, I just realised that in the UK the K8.2s are £550, only £150 more than the CP8...I thought the price differential was much more. Hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Unfortunately the ZXa1 developed a fault after about 10 minutes, so that's going back to the store! In the "FWIW" department: a friend of mine brought a brand new ZXa1 to our gig for its maiden flight. Right out of the box, before we started our first set about ten minutes after he turned it on the woofer stopped woofing. He returned it the next day and got a K8.2. This was before the CP8 he would probably have been fine with that as he does mostly low-volume Brazilian music gigs. ...so to continue this story, I just realised that in the UK the K8.2s are £550, only £150 more than the CP8...I thought the price differential was much more. Hmmm... Interesting. At current exchange rates the K8.2 would be $723 here, that's less than the US selling price which I think is $750. And the CP8 would be $526 here, $126 more than the US selling price. I wonder what's up with that. If you can swing the 8.2, that might be the thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBrooks Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Thanks. I had actually bought two separate ZXa1s in sequence (from a reliable eBay seller) which each had faults, so they had to go back. I've just ordered an 8.2 and will then return either the CP8 or the 8.2 depending on how they sound. No doubt the 8.2s are overkill for me, but at £550 vs £400 I was tempted to give it a try. The separate DI outs will make life easier on stage, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I know I'd be interested in an actual A/B between the K8.2 and the CP8. I would expect the 8.2 to sound better. I guess the question is, how much better, and whether that amount of better is worth £150 to you. Keep us posted please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBrooks Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 So, got the 8.2 delivered. I set up an A/B test with my NE5HP, both speakers in wedge position on my right hand side, both fed by mono APs. I used the part lower / part upper function to quickly flick between the two (quite handy for that!) Tried my best to equalize volumes, and both speakers in default mode. I mostly tested with XL grand pianos (albeit in mono mode). The 8.2 is definitely better. At higher registers, not too much of a difference, but play a complex voicing lower down (say, the octave below middle C) and whereas the 8.2 is clear and you can make out the individual notes, the CP8 becomes a little bit of a mush (relatively speaking). Not having too much experience with this kind of thing, I'm probably less discerning than most here, but can say with confidence that on AP sound quality alone then if the price difference is 550 vs 400 then it's definitely worth going for the 8.2s. In fact I can really see why people rave about the 8.2s. HOWEVER...I've decided not to keep them, because: (1) they are just a bit too big/heavy for my specific needs (complicated to explain, but my practice room doubles as a spare room / laundry room so space is tight!) (2) after years of waiting I'm about to purchase a real acoustic piano, so hopefully that will satisfy me in a pure quality of sound sense (3) this is irrational, but i felt with the fan and complex electronics, there's more to 'go wrong' on the 8.2s and I'd forever be fiddling with the settings. (4) I can justify the CP8 on utilitarian grounds (I need a speaker like this for church stuff) but the extra 150, although well worth it, is sort of a luxury. That's philosophical though.. Finally, now that I've worked out a good A/B testing system, I'm tempted to try another ZXa1 to compare the CP8 against one more time. Hope that's helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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