Moog One. The Polyphonic.

[Markyboard]

6. The oscillators definitely do not, without assistance, jump out of the speakers crackling with life like those of a Model D or some vintage VCO's. They are however, to put it in a good light, classy and rich. Also versatile, and with the waveform shaping and mixing, capable of a huge variety of tones. They are more lively with no modulation tricks than say, the digital oscillators of a Pro-2, or the DCO's of a Juno ( or DM12 as a contemporary example). One of my next moves will be to use a boost pedal with a little bit of "hair" on it on an insert with the filter wide open, and bring it into the external input of another "synth" to drive the filter a bit more, and to see how Minimoogy it can get. I will also similarly experiment with using my Voyager oscillators with the slew rate mod triggered via midi into an external input mostly for my own edification as an A/B. Will do same with the OB6 or Prophet 6.

 

I would be doing similar just to see where this puppy sits and getting acclimated to her personality. I am very interested in the modulation possibilities as one would explore on a modular to get those unique percolating rhythmic effects and the crunchiness this can bring out in certain sounds. Modulating one lfo with another at the different rate ranges would be high up on my list.

 

Congrats Phil and MS - enjoy. I believe Marzzz will be along shortly to join your party.

[realtrance]

I've decided not to indulge; it sounds great, would be a good replacement for my Andromeda, but the fans might bother me, I'm very sensitive to unwanted noise like that.

 

[Marzzz]

3. Fan noise after the initial boot up is not bad for me. Quieter than a computer, a DeepMind, or background noise of a guitar amp turned up loud.

This is one issue that has me concerned, over on GS it has been described as anywhere between "unnoticeable" to "I can hear it from the next room." I was on the original ship list for Sweetwater, but logistics of a house remodel and travel over the next few weeks made me decide to wait until early December delivery. The other issue is I want it to respond to PolyAT over MIDI; it is in the future but it looks like they have more important issues to deal with.

 

I don't understand why they didn't use the quietest fans possible, this is after all and $8000 synth. There are 5 fans, maybe it is just a matter of a firmware update but I know if my unit were noisy it would drive me crazy. Hopefully if it does prove to be an ubiquitous issue they would consider using much quieter fans (and replace noisy ones from previous builds).

 

A few people have complained that it didn't sound like a Memorymoog; personally I am glad because I always thought (with apologies to TheRealMC) that a Memorymoog was just too sonically heavy in most situations. The first Polymoog (which Moog alluded to historically in their video introducing The One) was also initially disliked by many people who thought they would be getting a polyphonic Minimoog. It proved despite its many limitations to be quite the synth in its own right, and more versatile. That is pretty much what I would like to see in The One. Example, all Polymoog except for drums:

 

[video:youtube]

[ksoper]

This is one issue that has me concerned, over on GS it has been described as anywhere between "unnoticeable" to "I can hear it from the next room."

 

... I don't understand why they didn't use the quietest fans possible, this is after all and $8000 synth. There are 5 fans, maybe it is just a matter of a firmware update but I know if my unit were noisy it would drive me crazy. Hopefully if it does prove to be an ubiquitous issue they would consider using much quieter fans (and replace noisy ones from previous builds).

 

 

I made the mistake of going over to GS. God, I despise that forum. But they certainly kicked the fan issue around. My room is over the garage and therefore has the worst insulation in the house. To keep the temperature controlled the hvac runs almost constantly. This isn't a problem for me when tracking, but I shut it off to mix. I doubt I'll notice the fans that much. But now I'm thinking about it. Concerns become obsessions.

 

It looks like we'll go out to Asheville in early December. By then I trust the first batch of bugs will be addressed. And hopefully by then the user video demos will include real playing. This plunking around on an $8k instrument is making me crazy. I'm counting on you folks. Let's hear it sing.

[Doerfler]

I'm counting on you folks.

 

Gee, Ken, I was counting on you.

[ksoper]

I'm counting on you folks.

 

Gee, Ken, I was counting on you.

 

Don't count on me. I suck and work verrrrrrrry slooooooly.

[analogika]

3. Fan noise after the initial boot up is not bad for me. Quieter than a computer, a DeepMind, or background noise of a guitar amp turned up loud.

I don't understand why they didn't use the quietest fans possible, this is after all and $8000 synth. There are 5 fans, maybe it is just a matter of a firmware update but I know if my unit were noisy it would drive me crazy. Hopefully if it does prove to be an ubiquitous issue they would consider using much quieter fans (and replace noisy ones from previous builds).

 

A few people have complained that it didn't sound like a Memorymoog

 

With five fans in it, it ought to sound just like a Memorymoog.

[Markyboard]

 

With five fans in it, it ought to sound just like a Memorymoog.

 

:idk

 

When it comes to Memorymoog...not a fan.

[Phil Aiken]

The fan noise thing seems to vary from instrument to instrument. After boot up, you need to put your head by the back grill to hear them. I have experienced them kicking up a notch once for about a minute, to the point where you could hear them, but it still wasnt too bad.

[Marzzz]

The fan noise thing seems to vary from instrument to instrument.

Phil-

Have you noticed any issue with excessive background noise in the main outs? I see exactly one person complain about it. FWIW both my Minitaur and Resissue are quiet, even through headphones.

[GRollins]

If...and I haven't researched this so I don't know...the fans on the One are thermostatically controlled (like the fans in most computers these days), then you could easily find that all the reports about fan noise are true. If the room is cool, the fans may barely be turning, hence whisper quiet. If the room is hot, the fans may need to push more air, so the reports of 'hearing it from the next room' may also be accurate.

 

At the moment, my PC is so quiet I can't hear the fans (at least three that I can think of: power supply, video card, and overall case ventilation) at all, but the ambient temperature in here is 69 degrees at the moment. However, I know from experience that if the room temperature gets to the high 70s the fans get more aggressive and you can clearly hear them from across the room.

 

If:

a) You're bothered by the noise of fans

--and--

b) You have a piece of equipment with thermostatically controlled fans

--then--

c) Try to keep your room temperature down.

 

The poster above who has poor insulation might need to get some fiberglass batts, but it's a solvable problem. Admit it--if you're playing live, chances are that you're loud enough that the noise won't be heard by you or anyone else. At home, you have more control of the ambient temperature. I wouldn't let the fans keep me from buying a synth.

 

Related question: Does anyone have a sense yet of how stable the oscillators in the One are viz temperature?

 

Grey

[Marzzz]

Try to keep your room temperature down.

Uh yeah, I live in Arizona.

[Phil Aiken]

The fan noise thing seems to vary from instrument to instrument.

Phil-

Have you noticed any issue with excessive background noise in the main outs? I see exactly one person complain about it. FWIW both my Minitaur and Resissue are quiet, even through headphones.

 

No, but I have the output volume at a fairly modest level, running into a stereo Great River preamp.I will crank it up larger and see.

 

[Phil Aiken]

Thought I'd follow up for anyone interested.

There have been raves, pans, criticisms both valid and overstated, information and misinformation floating around. Most of the severe criticism seems to be coming from a small group of people who have never touched one, and seem to be hell bent on posting hither and yon about its assumed shortcomings, all of which I will address.

 

In short - it is an AMAZING instrument. No regrets on the purchase and it is not going back.

 

What it is not: 16 Minimoogs in a box. If you try to emulate your favorite mini patch with the same knob twists you will not have the same results. It is voiced differently, and to get similar results you need to tweak it differently. Seems obvious...but well....you know.

Which brings us to the first criticism - there is no fatness to the oscillators. Poppycock. There is more low end to be had than on the Voyager or the DSI polys. I went as far as sending the oscillators of the One and the Voyager into each other to A/B as closely as possible, and to A/B each instrument side by side. Some of those early perceptions involved people cranking sawtooth (saw teeth?) into the Ladder filter, cranking the resonance, and wondering where the low end went. The ladder filter on the One, with the resonance cranked and the cutoff raised, REALLY takes away the low end. Ladder filters tend to do this to some degree, but not to the extent of the Ladder on the One. At least not when at 24db. Remind me to scope out lower pole settings.

Fortunately, there is a solution. There is also the SVF filter. Want low end? Add it back in. It is massive. The two filters really seem designed as a "filter section", and once you realize that, and explore both the obvious and hidden possibilities there is very little you can't do.

About the oscillators. No, they are not as vibrant and unruly as a Model D. While that might sound wonderful on paper, or indeed in real life, it would not have worked for the intended design. These oscillators are indeed fat and nice sounding, but not quite as unruly. There are a multitude of ways to make them subtly more unstable, and while this sounds like a cheat, it leaves again, a multitude of possibilities.

And that is the thing - it is SO vast. I can do 90% of what I can do on my Voyager with a mono voice, but also so, so, so much more. I am reminded of a Groucho quote. These are my principles, and if you don't like them, well, I have others. This is what the instrument sounds like, and if you don't like it, make it sound different. About the Voyager - you will see it is for sale in the classifieds. It is not that the One makes it redundant - but I am getting a Model D, which feels like the perfect compliment to the One for my needs. The One, for tweakability and for saving presets, and the D for immediacy and its particular sonic footprint.

Another criticism has been fan noise. I fortunately have not experienced any problems. There is a firmware fix coming out next week, which hopefully will help the vast majority of people that have experienced this. Moog was very conservative with where they set the fans to go on, and I guess depending on how hot your studio is, they can kick on faster than necessary. For me - after boot up, I have to put my head by the back grill to tell they are on. I suspect there are a few with mechanically noisy fans, which is a bummer and they will have to be replaced.

The last big complaint is that there is a high noise floor. If you crank the master output all the way up, there is indeed. The solution is - don't do that. There is PLENTY of signal to be had without cranking it. None the less, there is a firmware fix coming for that as well. Really - the output goes to 11, but you need to keep it under 10, Nigel.

There are too many effects on some of the presets, and the gain structure of some of those has not been carefully attended to. Mostly the effects are good but not great (yet), except some of the Eventide reverbs, when set to taste, are indeed great in my book. Mostly nice to have, will likely get improved, but not a substitute for your Moogerfoogers or the like.

Which brings us to this: The inserts are so nice to have, and you can leave whatever plugged into each, to be assigned on a per patch basis. Sweet.

 

Do you need the 16 voice version and will you be missing out getting the 8? Not SO much, I think. The 8 voice version is plenty powerful. Certainly for real time playing of one patch. It is nice to have 2 8 voice layers available, and if you are sequencing polyphonically, yeah 16 is 8 better, innit? But the 8 voice version will still floor any other poly in terms of capabilities. Sound of course is subjective.

 

I have not delved into the sequencer much yet. You can really get into Berlin School territory. I am more of a realtime guy, but I could see doing some pieces like that. In some way, this is a modern marriage of a modular and a Moog keyboard.

 

Aiiieeeee.....my laptop batteries are on the brink. If anything seems worth adding I will do so - but also happy to answer questions, or have any other users chime in with differing opinions or corrections.

 

[Doerfler]

excellent post, Phil.

[Phil Aiken]

The fan noise thing seems to vary from instrument to instrument.

Phil-

Have you noticed any issue with excessive background noise in the main outs? I see exactly one person complain about it. FWIW both my Minitaur and Resissue are quiet, even through headphones.

 

I addressed this and the fan noise in a lengthy post above, but the gist is that the noise level is a non-issue unless you make it one. If you think of it as a mixer with multiple places to affect the gain, you are fine. The master output simply goes too high. If you stay below 80% of max volume, a non-issue. Nonetheless they have a firmware fix coming to shut off unused voices from contributing to the noise floor. If they did not, I would not care. It really is mostly a matter of not flooring the master output, and there is no need to do so.

[mate stubb]

I'm curled into an angry miserable ball in the corner waiting on delivery of my One, which has been postoned again for at least another week or two.

 

Thank you for helping me kill a couple of minutes in my long vigil. I'm so desperate for Moog One content that I have been combing the Gearslutz thread several times a day.

[Phil Aiken]

I'm curled into an angry miserable ball in the corner waiting on delivery of my One, which has been postoned again for at least another week or two.

 

Thank you for helping me kill a couple of minutes in my long vigil. I'm so desperate for Moog One content that I have been combing the Gearslutz thread several times a day.

 

That place can be brutal. This message board is so very civilized in comparison.....

 

 

[Markyboard]

 

That place can be brutal. This message board is so very civilized in comparison.....

 

 

You, Lady Gaia and a few others have way more patience/tolerance for that soap opera than I do. I almost never post there but I do lurk there often. Ironically it's one of the most informative sites for this kind of synth. Thanks in large part to you.

[MikeT156]

I read some of the negative Post on youtube videos of the Moog One. One nitwit actually said the Moog One sounded horrible. Yeah, right.

 

I responded to the guy that Posted the above: The Moog One has 48 RA Oscillators, 2 different filters, and a complete wish list of other features. If you can't get can't great sounds out of synth with those capabilities, you can't be much of a programmer.

 

I suggested that the guy was filled with Sour Grapes and just couldn't afford one. Time to man up.

 

From what I heard of the Moog One, its an incredible synth. Anyone that can afford one should buy one, even if they don't "need it".

 

As far as the price, it is more than fair considering what it is, the build quality, and the potential of that instrument.

 

 

Mike T.

 

[Lady Gaia]

That place can be brutal. This message board is so very civilized in comparison.....

 

No question! I come here for a more relaxing, musical take on the subject. Still, for an up-to-the-minute take on things, a more technical slant, and lively conversation that place does serve a useful purpose. Its just exhausting.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful take on Moog One ownership, Phil. Ive enjoyed hearing about your experiences every step of the way and look forward to more as the instrument evolves.

[Markyboard]

Anyone that can afford one should buy one, even if they don't "need it".

 

Mike T.

 

I'm going to disagree as I think about this a lot and have given heavy consideration into buying a One as well as the Schmidt a few years ago. And trust me, I consider either a huge chunk of change. The questions I ask myself are what am I going to be using it for (income doesn't make the list), how much is it overlapping what I already have, and how much of it am I not going to use. I assume it sounds wonderful as I would never buy before trying it. But I don't use sequencers very often, arpeggiators even less and I'm much more likely to mess with my hardware effects over internal effects when needed or when I'm simply in the mood to explore a particular effect. My thing is raw synth sound programming from the bottom up and creating interesting modulations. I rarely get into splits or layering 2 "synths". I'm never looking to duplicate a vintage board (except when a forum question/challenge comes up) or even a particular sound. Any sound that curls my toes or gives me goose bumps will do. Oh and I usually have to be able to actually "play" the sound. Still that's a lot of money for stuff that I'm not going to use very often if at all.

 

The Moog One modulation matrix is the thing that I'd be all over; what can this puppy do that brings new sound elements I've never heard or at least never created myself. I suspect many who love the spec and easy interface of the mod matrix may never venture past the typical sine/square/sawtooth tremolo control with the modwheel. That's Ok - their focus may be one of the other major synth features. Other's may be chasing the ultimate Minimoog sounds. And yes there will be those who end up using it as a preset machine doing minor tweaks. Again fine by me. Getting back to my thing I think that my latest modular endeavors are the last frontier in analog synth exploration and despite the One's amazing oscillators, filters and mod matrix it will not surpass what I'm currently using towards what I'm after. And if not the last frontier then the last straw that makes my head explode and go back to piano lessons

 

Finally there's the whole ergonomic logistics of where I would locate it and well it's just not for me at this time. Of course I have yet to play one and it could end up a "must have" as the Voyager was for me many years ago. In the mean time I look forward to you Phil and Mate Stubb giving us excruciating detailed insight into whatever aspect of the One floats your boat.

 

 

[MikeT156]

Well my friend, the cost and what you are going to use for that much money seems to be your biggest consideration.

 

As I said "Anyone that could afford one should buy one, even if you don't need it"

 

A lot of us can't afford one, but if I had the $$$$ i would buy one. I'm on the back nine of my life on this planet, so I won't be buying one either.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Mike T

[GRollins]

I have, unfortunately, stumbled upon a line of rationalization that will--unless I resist strenuously--lead me to the path of temptation. As some may recall, I flirted with the idea of what I called "deep oscillators" in order to get richer sounds at one point. I was also enticed by the possibility of polychaining for polyphony. The complexity and expense put me off.

 

Then along came the One.

 

It can do both and only costs $6/8k (pick one).

 

Okay, so the question becomes: Is it cheaper than buying a passel of bits and bobs to accomplish the same thing?

 

Hmmm...

 

And it comes with the ability to do the preset thing, which would greatly simplify life.

 

This line of thinking could lead one to the conclusion that the bloody thing is a bargain if I'm one's not careful.

 

Grey

[Markyboard]

You should probably buy 3-5 Moog Ones and poly-chain them together for ultra deep oscillators.

[GRollins]

You should probably buy 3-5 Moog Ones and poly-chain them together for ultra deep oscillators.

 

I like the way you think.

 

Now...where'd I put that winning lottery ticket?

 

Grey

 

P.S.: I'm afraid to look--do these things really polychain? Don't answer. I don't want to know.

P.P.S: Tell Moog to build a rack mount version.

P.P.P.S: Soon.

P.P.P.P.S.: No. Don't. I was just kidding. I can't find my lottery ticket.

[ProfD]

P.P.S: Tell Moog to build a rack mount version.

Hold tight. The Behringer Uno will be out in 2023.

[Doerfler]

Okay, so the question becomes: Is it cheaper than buying a passel of bits and bobs to accomplish the same thing?

 

There is only one answer to this.

[Ockeghem]

Okay, so the question becomes: Is it cheaper than buying a passel of bits and bobs to accomplish the same thing?

 

There is only one answer to this.

 

Right, and I would think the British would write "parcel of bits and bobs" although the pronunciation is about the same.

So, will it cost a few bob more than the bits and bobs?

[realtrance]

I got over my hesitancy about participating in GS years ago. There are some knowledgeable folks there, too, alongside a lot of people who make a lot of uninformed noise.

 

And then there are the woefully OCD analogue anoraks who simply will not go anywhere beyond "warm" and -- at least in my opinion -- a very narrow definition of "analogue tone." Including some whose opinions I otherwise highly respect! I won't go any further on that note.

 

Phil Aiken's assessment of the Moog One I consider trustworthy. There's no question that it'll be a synth worth playing for a long time, and the capabilities are truly almost modular in scale and depth.

 

That makes it cheap, compared with any modular setup you could conceive of that would get close, and that modular setup would at best be one voice. So, double-cheap by comparison!