stand woes

[zephonic]

I think I have posted about this before, but the trouble continues...

 

I had my failing Quiklok QL-642 replaced under warranty, but the new one started having the same problem after a month or two, so last month I decided to buy an Ultimate Support AX-48Pro, out of desperation, really, as I tried the K&M Spider Pro earlier this year and sent that back as well.

 

Today I'm returning the AX-48 as well, it was an open box (the only thing our local GC had in stock) and I just found out it is supposed to come with a handle which mine didn't have, same for any documentation (was absent from my open box).

I kind of like the AX48, except for a few things:

 

- the top cap pops open when you flip the stand over to tuck in the legs, and the arms fall out

- no adjustable angles, which is a problem especially for the top-tier

- the Krome on the upper-tier moves around a lot when played spiritedly, its low weight is definitely a disadvantage here

- I'm 5'11" and I can't get the ideal playing height when standing. This is not a major issue though, one I could live with if it weren't for the other things.

 

 

So here I am again, looking for a keyboard stand. If the QL-642 didn't suffer from poor reliability and was constructed a little more precise (the teeth in the upper-tier locks don't align), it'd be fine for me. But after two of them with the same issue, I think it's time to move on.

 

Anybody got any suggestions? Frankly, I don't know where to look next.

 

 

 

[Doerfler]

Hey Menno, do you sit or stand, or does that depend on the gig?

 

Also, I sold many, many, 642's back in the 90's when they were made in Italy, not China. Even then, the teeth never aligned perfectly, although I never saw one fail.

[zephonic]

Depends on the gig. I play better when I sit, but for some gigs it's visually important that I stand.

 

As for Quiklok, I used them back in Europe in the late 90's and early 00's, and never had a problem with them. I used to love Quiklok stuff. Simple, cheap, functional and sturdy. But that doesn't apply to the 642.

 

 

[allan_evett]

If you want to stay with an X-stand, the only game in town for absolute reliability is the Ultimate Support IQ-3000, paired with the second tier arm set - VSIQ-200B. Granted, Ultimate's other X-stands - and some from other manufacturers - can work okay for very lightweight keyboards; but for rigs with heavier instruments, I wouldn't trust any other 'X' but an IQ-3000. Yeah, I've had one, catastrophic X-stand failure; it happened to involve the brand first mentioned here. That collapse wouldn't have happened with the IQ-3000, as it has a unique center support system.

 

Though I still have an IQ-3000 / VSIQ-200B combi, I've come to like a rather different stand: K & M 18880 with a pair of 18882 stackers for second tier. Have been using it for two gigging seasons now. It's fairly light, quick to rig and strike, and it's been very reliable. The height adjustment is something that needs to be done at home, though. It's not that quickly height adjustable on the spot. But for easy transport, especially in a compact vehicle, it's great.

[brenner13]

Standtastic. Reserve an hour or two for initial setup and height adjustment. Plan to replace the thumbscrews and velcro. Be sure your vehicle has ski-length item capacity. Otherwise, my favorite multi-tier gig stand for standing.

[Doerfler]

I've come to like a rather different stand: K & M 18880 with a pair of 18882 stackers for second tier.

 

this stand has gotten a lot of love here the last few years, it's the one I was going to mention for sitting gigs. As long as you know before the gig (or have time to do adjustments) whether you are standing or sitting you should be OK.

[zephonic]

If you want to stay with an X-stand, the only game in town for absolute reliability is the Ultimate Support IQ-3000, paired with the second tier arm set - VSIQ-200B.

 

Has this been solid for you? I looked at it previously, but negative reviews on Sweetwater stopped me from purchasing this combi.

 

 

 

Standtastic. Reserve an hour or two for initial setup and height adjustment. Plan to replace the thumbscrews and velcro. Be sure your vehicle has ski-length item capacity. Otherwise, my favorite multi-tier gig stand for standing.

 

I looked at the KS-122, but my concern is that the bottom-tier is too low for standing gigs. Looks great for sit-down gigs, though.

 

 

I have an old Proline stand, and now I'm thinking maybe take that to a welder and have him cut the top-tier to the desired height.

[David R]

The function band purchased the On-Stage heavy Z stand. It's very well-built, though kind of a pain in the ass to assemble/disassemble. It breaks down into component parts, stored in a road case and our transport company hasn't broken it yet!

 

I also use the AX48 Pro - it's what I was using in the function band previously, and I personally prefer the form factor to the Z stand. The lid opens only sometimes, after transport, and the arms have never fallen out on me - yet...

 

I still have an Quiklok WS550 which is 20 years old, built like a tank and never given me problems, ever. Looks like the current model is the WS650 and I believe they have a multitude of additional tiers & attachments.

[J. Dan]

I'm still using a vintage Apex stand - it's the one I keep going back to. I've had it for about 25 years! I've never had the lid pop open, so maybe that's an issue with the newer design, or maybe you got a dud. They are pretty good about parts - I've contacted them before asking for P/N and pricing for a part I needed and they just sent it to me free, no questions asked. Can't guarantee they'd do that for you, but as far as the handle goes, it can't hurt to ask. Really about the only downside I see is not being able to adjust tier angle.

 

When I was using the Alesis fusion, this was a deal breaker because the bottom of the Fusion is shaped funny and it would actually tilt BACK. So I had to have a stand where the top tier could tilt forward. I went through a couple X stands, a V stand, and a Standtastic and hated all of them. I was very happy when I got my Kronos that I could go back to the Apex.

[zephonic]

When I was using the Alesis fusion, this was a deal breaker because the bottom of the Fusion is shaped funny and it would actually tilt BACK.

 

I have this problem with both the Krome and MX88. I don't remember this being a problem with the Nord Piano or Fantom.

 

But it's time for new keyboards anyway. Can't wait for NAMM.

[allan_evett]

The 2nd tier for the IQ-3000 will work. The guy who gave it a bad review made two mistakes: 1) He failed to take the time to level the second tier properly. No wonder his Prophet almost fell off. The tier arms take awhile to level out, especially when using a tilted 2nd tier. I discovered that by rushing a new stand onto a gig, and almost tossed my SK1 73 into the bottom keyboard. The measuring and balancing was a PITA though. 2) He claimed that the arm adapters didnt fit, but then proceded to bitch about it, created a workaround, etc.. If something doesnt work as described, I contact the retailer / manufacturer to see if I might have a defective part. My adapters fit fine, but maybe there were a few bad ones shipped.

 

Considering that the IQ-3000 two-tiered rig does take some very measured adjusting, I lean toward recommending the K & M 18880 / 18882 combi. The VSQ arms do work, but they seem designed better for the V Stand, and more of a kludgy afterthought when adapted for the IQ-3000.

[Red Ranger]

I liked the Quik-Lok M-91 (w/second tier) so much I bought a second one. It's quite stable for either sitting or standing, there's room for pedals underneath, and it folds flat. The second tier can be angled.

[Justin Havu]

I've had the Standtastic since last June. Absolutely love it. Once you get the height of each tier to your liking, it takes just a couple minutes to set up. I'm 5',11" and it's plenty high enough for standing position.

[J. Dan]

I've had the Standtastic since last June. Absolutely love it. Once you get the height of each tier to your liking, it takes just a couple minutes to set up. I'm 5',11" and it's plenty high enough for standing position.

 

Wondering how you've avoided the many pitfalls I encountered with mine while gigging with it for a couple years.

 

First, in transport, regularly lost the toggle bolts and rubber end caps.

 

On more than a few occasions, cut the shit out of my hand on the threaded studs that stick out while handling the stand.

 

The Tier length adjustment wouldn't lock. It may be because the rivets on one piece happen to be in exactly the wrong place, but I could tighten the thumb screws with pliers and still have the tier length break loose.

 

While it doesn't take terribly long to set up, it still takes longer than any other stand I use.

 

When transporting, the legs and braces and everything basically flop around all over until you manage to get it into the bag. I know it originally had a couple Velcro dots to help with that but they lasted about 2 weeks.

 

Speaking of the bag, the handles were in a spot that was not even remotely close to the center of gravity, so one end would drag on the floor if you tried to use the handles. The bag did not last long at all -it started getting holes and the zippers broke.

 

The footprint on stage is very large and if you accidentally knock one of the front legs, they move significantly and make everything all crooked and wonky.

 

No convenient mic boom attachment and since the bracing and legs take up such large real estate, it's difficult to get decent mic stand placement and boom adjustment. You either have to put it way off to the side with a very long boom, or nestle it in the middle and have it awkwardly coming from the front.

 

No cable management system. You have to either let all your cables hang, or try to drape them off to the sides and weave them down the legs, which adds quite a bit to setup/teardown time and looks messy, IMO.

 

 

 

EDIT: I don't want it to sound like I'm completely knocking the Standtastic, it certainly has its place....so here are some pros:

 

VERY adjustable - I could get the tiers very close together, unlike some of the 2nd tier options on X and V stands. Apex allows for close spacing, but Standtastic also allows for sever angled adjustments of the tiers.

 

Large space on the floor for people who have large pedal boards that need to be placed in the middle. This would be a huge drawback for the Apex. Doesn't affect me but I've seen some of other peoples' pedalboards on here and can see where that would be a dealbreaker.

 

More than 2 tiers. If you need 3 or more tiers, Standtastic is essentially the only game in town without going to something like an A Frame or some really wonky concoction of multiple accessories. Really you could pretty much add as many tiers as you want and have them all fully adjustable.

 

Very solid once it's set up and everything tightened up. No walking around of keyboards or swaying of the stand - this incudes bouncy stages. I've had my Apex rocking and swinging significantly on temporary stages, but not the Standtastic.

 

I currently use my Standtastic at home as a permanent fixture. When not having to transport it and do regular setup/teardown, it's fine.

[Justin Havu]

Haven't really encountered any bad pitfalls, other than the case starting to rip. I just tighten all the bolts when it's folded up. Also, I orientate the stand so that the tiers are underneath the handle, which seems to help with the balance.

 

They do make a mic stand attachment. I just ordered one right here .

 

Also, yes, the footprint is quite big. I'm thinking about getting the 48" 2-tier version for situations where I only need two boards. I guess I just try to take good care of my equipment when loading and unloading as well. My OnStage 2-Tier Z-stand is quite beat up. lol

[J. Dan]

Also, I orientate the stand so that the tiers are underneath the handle, which seems to help with the balance.

 

Hmm. For me it's not the tiers, it's the end with the legs and all the bracing. Doesn't matter which way I position it, the end with the legs is heavier and the handles are in the middle. I have the taller one (I don't remember dimensions) which is another cosmetic issue on stage - it looks like goal posts in the end zone since they stick up a good 18" or more over my top tier.

[MotiDave]

I think I have posted about this before, but the trouble continues...

 

I had my failing Quiklok QL-642 replaced under warranty, but the new one started having the same problem after a month or two, so last month I decided to buy an Ultimate Support AX-48Pro, out of desperation, really, as I tried the K&M Spider Pro earlier this year and sent that back as well.

 

Today I'm returning the AX-48 as well, it was an open box (the only thing our local GC had in stock) and I just found out it is supposed to come with a handle which mine didn't have, same for any documentation (was absent from my open box).

I kind of like the AX48, except for a few things:

 

- the top cap pops open when you flip the stand over to tuck in the legs, and the arms fall out

- no adjustable angles, which is a problem especially for the top-tier

- the Krome on the upper-tier moves around a lot when played spiritedly, its low weight is definitely a disadvantage here

- I'm 5'11" and I can't get the ideal playing height when standing. This is not a major issue though, one I could live with if it weren't for the other things.

 

 

So here I am again, looking for a keyboard stand. If the QL-642 didn't suffer from poor reliability and was constructed a little more precise (the teeth in the upper-tier locks don't align), it'd be fine for me. But after two of them with the same issue, I think it's time to move on.

 

Anybody got any suggestions? Frankly, I don't know where to look next.

 

 

I don't know many stands first hand so can't help. I do have AX48 now. I switched from my trusty x-stand because all the guys here made me feel ashamed. ok, kidding - i just wanted a nicer looking one.

 

I also tried spider but I didnt take to it - it was just all way too much. the other drawback was i usually play one board, on occasion i'll play two. Spider has the arms integrated and exteranl so it doesn't work well as a one-tier stand 50% of time. I don't want an empty second tier above my board and don't want to take the entire assy on and off (remove cap screws, take off cap, etc etc.).

 

on the AX48 I used to pop the top cap open when I snap the legs into their retaining clips too. I solved this by just tucking my toe under the cap while i'm hitting the legs. wish they designed an actual positive latch vs the plastic spring clip but my toe solved my problem.

 

weird yours didn't have a handle. I'd take it back for that suspect weirdness. I wouldn't bother with the "documentation" - its pretty crap and you can get it off the web. but the handle - yeah.

 

you're 5'11" and you can't get the height because what - its not tall enough? I'm 6'2", so far I've only used bottom tier, i don't have a height trouble. I like how easy it is to adjust height quickly - thats a plus to me.

[Justin Havu]

Could be one of those YMMV situations with the bag, although I would like to get something more durable, yet affordable at the same time. I have the 60", which is the taller one, and my top tier is close to the top of the stand.

 

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k193/justinhavu/20819374_10214295470646921_3321796852644588055_o.jpg

[J. Dan]

yeah - you're using 3 tiers so I can see that. I'm only using 2. That may be the difference in weight distribution as well since you have an extra set of tier arms at that end of the stand to balance out the weight. That would make sense.

[WesG]

J Dan - how is the leg room for expression pedals with that thing? I hate every stand I own right now. Does it waggle under boogie woogie duty? Fast to deploy?

[Moonglow]

The function band purchased the On-Stage heavy Z stand. It's very well-built, though kind of a pain in the ass to assemble/disassemble. It breaks down into component parts, stored in a road case and our transport company hasn't broken it yet!

Another vote for this stand. Built like a tank, and has reliably supported my Kronos 88 and Jupiter-80, two fairly heavy/large keyboards, for over five years. Very, very solid, no wobble/bounce in either keyboard.

 

It is a PITA to set-up/tear down, but only if you completely assemble/disassemble the whole stand. I used to assemble/disassemble the entire stand and transport it in its carrying bag (about $35.00, and one of the best, most rugged bags I have ever purchased) but now carry the base, which can be folded to a fairly reasonable size, separately from the two detachable upper-tier arms (which I toss in a milk crate I use for miscellaneous items). Tranported this way, I could probably set up the stand in about a minute if I hustled. But even when I previously set-up/tore-down the whole thing, I gladly traded the extra time for piece of mind.

 

I play standing up, but have seen others use it sitting down.

[Tom Williams]

(Ignore / forgive previous versions of this post if you saw them)

 

I have the On Stage KS7350 with the KSA7550 2nd Tier. Actually, I have two, and they are rock-frickin'-solid. Better still, it has the most adjustable 2nd tier I have ever owned, being both height- and tilt-adjustable.

 

It is not quick to rig and strike IMO. I'd call it annoying, especially getting all the fiddly bits apart and into the bag at the end of a gig.

 

For me, the positives greatly outweigh that one negative, which is why I have two of 'em.

 

Afterthought

At home I often add a third tier with no problems.

[J. Dan]

J Dan - how is the leg room for expression pedals with that thing? I hate every stand I own right now. Does it waggle under boogie woogie duty? Fast to deploy?

 

There's a width adjustment so part of it depends on how you set it up. Currently, mine has about 30" X 30" of free floor space underneath and could be adjusted wider if needed.

 

It doesn't wiggle. Deployment isn't as fast as some, but not bad. You kick out the back legs and spread it out to the width you want. 2 screws hand tightened lock the width. Then there are 2 side braces that you have to first loosen toggle nuts, attach, and re-tighten. Next swivel the tier arms into place and insert pins (2 pins per tier arm but I always left one pin in each one and let it swivel down). Takes a couple minutes.

[cphollis]

No stand drama in my world, so not much to offer here.

 

I use the big Spider Pro and the Brasilian Stay stands. Sitting, standing, doesn't really matter. They look great, easy transport, super sturdy, etc.

 

Love'em both. I'd buy them both again in a heartbeat.

[EscapeRocks]

The function band purchased the On-Stage heavy Z stand. It's very well-built, though kind of a pain in the ass to assemble/disassemble. It breaks down into component parts, stored in a road case and our transport company hasn't broken it yet!

 

 

 

 

I play standing up, but have seen others use it sitting down.

 

I use have this Z-Stand as well. I use it sitting or standing, and it is solid.

 

Sometimes I use the universal add on tier from them to make a third tier.

No, I don't have any tipping issues, but I still use some theater/stage small sand bags just in case.

 

Takes me no time to set up or tear down. Unfold the base, attach the 2nd tier, and I'm ready.

 

Standing

 

Sit

 

3rd Tier

 

 

 

 

[Bobadohshe]

... and our transport company hasn't broken it yet!

 

My kingdom for a transport company.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I have several of the OnStage Two Tier Z stands - really work well for anything that stays in place, quite sturdy, minimal wiggle or movement. Got the tiers closer together by drilling additional 1/4" holes for the adjustment knob.

 

I was using one (with the OnStage bag) for travelling gigs, but have mostly switched to the K&M 18880 (and 18881 when 2 tiers are needed). Love the super light weight. Normally play sitting, but it can be raised enough for standing. Made of aircraft grade aluminum. Can't get the boards close together with it, so the OnStage still goes out occasionally.

My avatar shows the OnStage, with PC3X on bottom, SK1-73 on center, and PC361 on an extended OnStage table top stand behind the Z stand.

 

[Outkaster]

Those 642 stands were built like tanks when they were made in Italy. I had three of them over the years. I don't what the problem is. No one can make a two tier stand that will work sitting or standing AND is adjustable. It really boggles the mind.

[ABECK]

I have yet to find a multi-board stand that I like better than the Invisible stand I had for years and years.

They never seem to check off all the boxes (light, sturdy, compact, looks good, easy access to controls on both boards, sitting and standing heights, etc...)

I've come to accept that the best stand is....switching to guitar (lol).

 

http://www.mesonline.com/images/working_images/invisible_kb2_mes/kb2_full_01A.jpg

[Tom Williams]

I'd love to see stands and/or keyboards made out of carbon fiber. I wonder if I could get a mountain bike manufacturer to make an Invisible Stand clone on weekends.