Roland VR-730: Electro Killer or Wannabe?

[ElmerJFudd]

I gotta add my voice to those who say the leslie sim and overdrive on the J7 are disappointing. Useable, yeah, I think so, but this is obviously supposed to be a B3-centered keyboard. The B3/leslie emulation should be in the same league as the best clones, but I think the Leslie sim falls pretty far short.

 

At some point, one of these clone makers will embed a Neo Vent into their board, and rule the world!!!

 

There is at least one doing this!

http://www.magorgans.com

They stick the HX3 and a Mini Vent II into their custom order clones.

 

 

I started this thread two seasons ago before the Korg VOX and VR-730 were out.

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2751406/Portable_Organ_Review_Post_NAM

 

[cphollis]

Amazing, thanks!!

[AnotherScott]

AnotherScott what is you evaluation of the difference in sounds between the Electro 5 and the Artis 7?

As you might guess, each has sounds I prefer over the other. For example, I'd choose Nord for pianos and organs, Kurz for strings and synths. Nothing very surprising there. Though for some of the Mellotron sounds, I prefer Kurz. which might be unexpected. Sometimes my preference has at least as much to do with playability as sound. For Clavinet, I like the Nord's snappy lower release point. For harmonica, I like that the Kurz gives me a wheel to bend pitch. Other sounds are a mix, sometimes I have a clear preference, other times they are simply different but not necessarily better or worse. And some sounds would be better on a Yamaha or Roland. ;-)

[Coker]

Has anyone compared the action of the VR 730 to the NE5D 73 semiweighted? So far, the 730 is excellent for organ and acceptable for AP. I am trying to decide if the Nord would be worth the money before my return period expires.

[AnotherScott]

In another forum, someone said that the VR730 used the Fatar TP8O, which is what Nord uses as well, though Nord springs it more heavily than most others, so it may not feel exactly the same.

[nadroj]

Played a VR730 today. I actually loved it. Organ wasn't Nord standard but throw a vent on it and bob's your uncle. Synth and pianos were typical Roland, get you through most gigs. Would work well as a poor man's Nord Stage.

 

Also piano wasn't effected by rotary when split or layered, contrary to what the other thread said.

[mate stubb]

Played a VR730 yesterday. It didn't completely suck. Action was OK but not the butter I remember from the old version. Some actions are done logically with panel buttons, others are hidden in the menu.

 

Sounds are kinda second tier but OK. The VR was sitting right above a Nord and I preferred organs and pianos from the Nord (and I don't like Nord organs.) The Roland clav was pretty good.

 

Meh, but a definite step up from the VR-09, which feels like a toy.

[LX88]

Too bad ... I still maintain that the VK8m module is a good clone - with one reservation.

 

It does not come stock with the leslie sim by passed.

 

However, I had one with the sim bypass ( it can be done) and I swear that the " Vintage 1" setting had extremely good CV and overdrive.

 

But Roland doesn't seem to have progressed beyond that.

 

The VK8m is more than 15 years old I believe.

 

I don't get it ....

[AnotherScott]

Also piano wasn't effected by rotary when split or layered, contrary to what the other thread said.

IIRC, that was specifically with organ on bottom, piano on top. Did you try that combo?

 

Played a VR730 yesterday. It didn't completely suck. Action was OK but not the butter I remember from the old version.

Old version, you mean VR700? Yeah, that was a nice action, and I could tell from the pics that the 730 isn't the same.

[allan_evett]

Played a VR730 today. I actually loved it. Organ wasn't Nord standard but throw a vent on it and bob's your uncle. Synth and pianos were typical Roland, get you through most gigs. Would work well as a poor man's Nord Stage.

 

Also piano wasn't effected by rotary when split or layered, contrary to what the other thread said.

 

Try putting the organ in the LH, piano or synth in the RH, then turn on the rotary speaker effect. It covers the whole keyboard, and there is no way to disable it for the upper split part. Confirmed this with Roland corporate in December; and was told that there was no fix in the works (OS update, etc.). That split configuration is something I needed in a compact stage keyboard. It's unfortunate that the VR-730 has that limitation, as I liked the instrument, a lot.

[ElmerJFudd]

Thats a deal breaker for a few guys, Allan. Yourself included as suggested earlier. But not everyone has the same need to split with Leslie/Organ in left and piano or synth patch in right. However, the VR-09b and VR-730 also have not deviated from the 700 with regard to lacking a sub out or, if I understand correctly, you still cannot pan organ L and other layer or split R... so you cant externally Leslie just the organ when split that way either. So the issue is really mainly related to flexibility in Leslie routing when split or layered. On the other hand, as before, Roland has a budget friendly swiss army knife board in the VR-730 which is why people buy Roland - good value.

[Coker]

Mate stub, you played both VR 730 and Nord. Which Nord? Can you compare the actions?

[nadroj]

Action was very very similar to my Electro 4 SW. Might be the TP-80 too?

[Coker]

I have a 730 boxed up and ready to return to Kraftmusic. Organ playing was fine, but couldnt make the AP feel comfortable. I wondered if the NE5D 73 might be better. However, if theyre the same action, oh well.

[TomKittel]

The only lightweighted action I am getting by with for AP and also for synth/organ sounds is the TP8 in the Artis 7. In contrast the TP8O in the Nord Stage 2 compact was dreadful for AP sounds.

[ElmerJFudd]

Scott swapped his springs on the TP8 in the Artis7.

Im of the same inclination.

Really dont enjoy to play AP/EP on the TP-8O.

This is definitely the case on the Electro. Terrible.

Semi weights that have been much better for me are VR-700 or if you remember XP-80.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

I have a 730 boxed up and ready to return to Kraftmusic. Organ playing was fine, but couldnt make the AP feel comfortable. I wondered if the NE5D 73 might be better. However, if theyre the same action, oh well.

The only lightweighted action I am getting by with for AP and also for synth/organ sounds is the TP8 in the Artis 7. In contrast the TP8O in the Nord Stage 2 compact was dreadful for AP sounds.

I thought the TP8O in the NS2 Compact was pretty unplayable for piano... but it is much better on the NE5D. Not ideal, but playable. Point being, even if you determine that the TP8O is awful for piano based on your prior experience with a TP8O (whether Nord Stage 2 or VR730 if that is indeed a TP8O), that won't tell you for sure that you would find it just as bad on the NE5D (or NS3).

[mate stubb]

The Electro over the VR-730 I played was a 5D. It was a bit stiffer than the Roland. Didn't necessarily feel like a Fatar action on the Roland, so maybe they are still making their own actions.

 

I wish it had the action from the VR-700. That one was special.

[AnotherScott]

Too bad ... I still maintain that the VK8m module is a good clone - ...I swear that the " Vintage 1" setting had extremely good CV and overdrive.

 

But Roland doesn't seem to have progressed beyond that.

 

The VK8m is more than 15 years old I believe.

 

I don't get it ....

Yes, VK8 organ, VK8M module, VR700 all had much better overdrive than the current generation VR09/730 and FA. They had the COSM effects, which are gone. OTOH, IIRC, the VK8M by itself cost hundreds more than a VR09 or an FA06. The VK8 and VR700 were $2k+. So I think taking out the COSM and going with lesser actions was the trade-off for getting the price down.

[AnotherScott]

The Electro over the VR-730 I played was a 5D. It was a bit stiffer than the Roland.

Not surprised, Nords seem to be a bit stiffer than anyone else's.

[Eddie Edwards]

I played the vr730 vs nord 5d73 vs vox73. For my money the roland keybed was the clear winner - weighty, but not stiff/spongey like the nord. I didn't like the keys on the vox at all (despite liking the rest of it) they were almost flimsy feeling - may have all been in my head though? And not that this should matter, but the roland keys seemed to be a 'better' grade of plastic and a much nicer colour (nicotine stained look)

[Adan]

I could be wrong, but I think the Vox has the same keybed as the Kronos 61. For me, it's the best unweighted keys for acoustic for piano I've played. Of course, that subjective. It's an extremely light action so in that sense completely unpiano-like, but it's predictable, expressive, and very adjustable. In contrast to, say, the VR-09, on which I can't attain any degree of expressiveness.

 

I've always had a serious problem playing AC on springy keys like the Electro. It's a shame because if not for that, the Electro would be my keyboard of choice for many applications.

[AnotherScott]

I could be wrong, but I think the Vox has the same keybed as the Kronos 61.

The Kronos 61 is not waterfall shaped.

 

I've always had a serious problem playing AC on springy keys like the Electro. It's a shame because if not for that, the Electro would be my keyboard of choice for many applications.

Even though the Nord Electro 5D is pretty heavily sprung, I find it more piano-playable than the (also heavily sprung) Nord Stage 2 Compact. Still not ideal, but I was surprised at the difference. I'm curious to try the NS3 Compact.

[Adan]

I could be wrong, but I think the Vox has the same keybed as the Kronos 61.

The Kronos 61 is not waterfall shaped.

 

True, but irrelevant. Keys are the same shape (more elongated than a Hammond organ), feel is the same, waterfall fronts make no difference for trying to use piano technique.

[U.Honey]

Too bad ... I still maintain that the VK8m module is a good clone - with one reservation.

 

It does not come stock with the leslie sim by passed.

 

It's easy to bypass the VK8M leslie. All you have to do is to send this midi sysex dump to the VK8M:

 

F0 41 10 00 4D 12 10 00 20 05 01 4A F7

 

To turn the leslie back on :

 

F0 41 10 00 4D 12 10 00 20 05 00 4B F7

 

[AnotherScott]

I could be wrong, but I think the Vox has the same keybed as the Kronos 61.

The Kronos 61 is not waterfall shaped.

 

True, but irrelevant. Keys are the same shape (more elongated than a Hammond organ), feel is the same, waterfall fronts make no difference for trying to use piano technique.

Well yes, it could be a variant of the same action with differently shaped keys (and also no aftertouch). Along those lines, Busch mentioned thinking it used the same action as the Kronos LS (again, with differently shaped keys).

[iluvchiclets]

 

It's easy to bypass the VK8M leslie. All you have to do is to send this midi sysex dump to the VK8M:

 

F0 41 10 00 4D 12 10 00 20 05 01 4A F7

 

To turn the leslie back on :

 

F0 41 10 00 4D 12 10 00 20 05 00 4B F7

 

I remember doing that with my VK8M! I really was fond of that module, but I have often wondered if I was correct in remembering it sounding so good? At the time it was released the Nord's were way too expensive (I think they were generation 1 Electros?) which were unattainable.

 

When I saw a 2nd hand VR760 recently, I got very excited to try out that 'ol VK Organ engine again. After about 30 seconds of trying the different organ models I thought it sounded exactly like the VR09 organ. Definitely Roland has "their" sound.

[teashea]

And remember, the new Hammond SKx is being revealed on January 25. I suspect it will be excellent.............

[ElmerJFudd]

SKx

I would be excited about this if they have invested in a growing sample library and have added a good chunk of flash RAM to store it in. Or, provide software to make and convert our own libraries, use sFz or something real standard.

 

And have they I invested in a programmable synth engine? It wouldn't be expensive - so many out there now. Could snatch up some solo dev with a great iOS or VST engine and get it running on their hardware.

[AnotherScott]

Could snatch up some solo dev with a great iOS or VST engine and get it running on their hardware.

generally non-trivial