Roland VR-730: Electro Killer or Wannabe?

[WesG]

Stuff doesn't get bad just because something else exists.

[AnotherScott]

Stuff doesn't get bad just because something else exists.

Agreed. I think the concern would be that value would drop, so what seems like a killer price today might not look so great a month from now.

[Rusty Mike]

Given that the 5D73 MAP is currently $2500 (of course it can be had for a better price), Id still say that $1400 equivalent is a good deal.

 

With regard to whats around the corner, very few actually know. Does the 5D73 do what you want/need it to do? If so, then its a good purchase right now.

 

I would speculate that Nord is having a pretty good run with the Electro 5 right now, and that we wont see a successor this coming year. The Stage may be their flagship, but I believe the Electro is their volume seller. And even though updates have become more frequent in recent years, Nord is not exactly notorious for short product lifecycles.

 

With the Electro 3 and 4, users were clamoring for features that are now in the Electro 5. I dont read a lot about Electro wish list items outside of better synth controls e.g., filter control, pitch stick, mod wheel, etc. I doubt Nord will add those features to the the Electro because a) thats not the product categorization and b) it moves the Electro too far into Stage territory.

 

If anything, the next Electro may inherit some of the Stage 3 features such as the piano filters, larger piano memory and new sample format. Just guessing.

 

And even if they do succeed the Electro 5, its still a great instrument. And arguably superior to the VR730 in many ways.

[teashea]

Well I ordered a Vox Continental. The VR730 might be a more logical choice, but I just couldn't get excited about it. I think the Vox is going to be one of those keyboards that, despite its functional shortcomings, can get you excited about playing something that feels like a real instrument. We'll see.

 

That the Vox can't do splits is a major shortcoming, but I've always been ambivalent and splits anyway. Is it worth the convenience of one board to be compromising either piano or organ action? I'm never able to resolve that debate for myself. My plan, for now , is to use a Vox + RD64 on gigs but bring only the Vox to rehearsal.

 

I'll report on the VOX in a week or so.

 

 

I think you will like the Vox. I have a high opinion of mine. The build quality is excellent - metal instead of plastic like the Roland. The sounds are quite good and the controls are so intelligently designed. It is a wonderful instrument. I did post a pretty lengthy review here but don't have time to search for it now.

[ElmerJFudd]

Teashea, I thought for sure you had picked the Dexibell Combo J7 after posting a few weeks ago... did you wind up with the Korg VOX?

 

How do those two compare?

 

[teashea]

Teashea, I thought for sure you had picked the Dexibell Combo J7 after posting a few weeks ago... did you wind up with the Korg VOX?

 

How do those two compare?

 

I have two Dexibell Combo J7's and the Vox Continental ---- (and some other combo/stage keyboards).

[Cybersoniq]

Teashea, I thought for sure you had picked the Dexibell Combo J7 after posting a few weeks ago... did you wind up with the Korg VOX?

 

How do those two compare?

 

I have two Dexibell Combo J7's and the Vox Continental ---- (and some other combo/stage keyboards).

 

Hi Teashea, Please let us know your experience with and between the Dexibell Combo J7 & the Vox Continental. Specifically compare: overall sound quality, instrument and FX/Rotary sim sound quality, user interface (performance, quick edits and deep programming), keyboard feel, build quality and various pros/cons of each. Thanks!

[teashea]

Well I ordered a Vox Continental.

 

It's 1966 all over again ! My second keyboard and first upgrade over a really funky Wurlitzer my Mom bought for me that I seem to remember being $100.

 

The Sweetwater demo sounds great ! A bit of an SV-1/Grandstage vibe, which I guess is no surprise.

 

 

You are correct. The sounds are essentially identical. The Grandstage is somewhat more powerful in terms of polyphony but the basic electronics and software are the same.

[teashea]

Teashea, I thought for sure you had picked the Dexibell Combo J7 after posting a few weeks ago... did you wind up with the Korg VOX?

 

How do those two compare?

 

I have two Dexibell Combo J7's and the Vox Continental ---- (and some other combo/stage keyboards).

 

Hi Teashea, Please let us know your experience with and between the Dexibell Combo J7 & the Vox Continental. Specifically compare: overall sound quality, instrument and FX/Rotary sim sound quality, user interface (performance, quick edits and deep programming), keyboard feel, build quality and various pros/cons of each. Thanks!

 

 

Well that is a great comparison. They are very similar. They are both organ based combos. Both has semi weighted keybeds that are both quite good to me.

 

The build quality on both is excellent --- very solid feeling with metal construction and very fine attention to details. I do not like the knobs on either and replaced them with Chroma Caps (as I do on many of my synths and digital organs).

 

The drawbars are very different. The Vox uses touch sensitive led strips which are quite easy to use and quick acting. They show exactly what is playing. I have never had led strips on anyother keyboard and did not know if I would like them, compared to drawbars or sliders - but I do. They also serve multifunctions such as an equalizer ---- nice.

 

The J7 has motorized faders - which are fabulous. They are quite satisfying to use, feel great and show exactly what is going on. I don't know why more manufacturers don't use them.

 

Both the Vox and J7 are oriented toward panel control instead of menus - which I really like. The J7 does have a screen and has the ability to tweak various parameters. For example there are several parameters for the Leslie effect. The tweakability of the Vox are much more limited.

 

The Hammond organ sound on both - very good but not quite up there with the top tier like a Mojo, Legend or XK5. I would generally say that the differences are in the range of being subjectively different rather than one being objectively better than the other.

 

The Leslie effect of the Vox is quite nice to me - probably better than the J7 but the J7 has several parameters are are adjustable.

 

The piano for the J7 is the same all the other Dexibelles. It has samples that are up to 15 seconds long. Dexibelle has the best piano of anyone of the boards I have. The Vox is the same piano as the Grand Stage - which is very very good.

 

Other sounds on both are quite nice. Well done all the way around.

 

The Vox has a tube for distortion - quite tasty. The J7 has more sounds.

 

The controls on both are very well thought out and easy to use.

 

By objective measures they are both up there with each other. It really comes down to subjective opinions.

 

One more thing - (very subjective). The stand with the Vox is so ugly that I gave it away without even opening it.

[AnotherScott]

The sounds are essentially identical. The Grandstage is somewhat more powerful in terms of polyphony but the basic electronics and software are the same.

They have plenty in common, but also plenty of differences. 10.5 GB of sample data in the VC, 19 GB in the GS. VC has the tube, GS does not. 9-band EQ vs. 3-band w/sweepable mid. 150 factory sounds vs 500 (and 16 user presets vs. 64). GS has the full split function. In short, there are plenty of ways these two boards can sound different from each other.

[Adan]

Interesting, the Dexibell is yet another Electro competitor I was not aware of when I started this thread. Looking at some YouTube videos, I think it sounds extremely good. But I'd say the strength of the Vox relative to the Dexibell is in it's functions for live performance. For instance, the Dexibell lacks a pitch bend lever and changing leslie speeds means reaching for a small button sandwiched between other buttons (though maybe you can program a pedal for that, but I can't tell from online info).

[ElmerJFudd]

Been watching it closely since announcement:

Initial thread here:

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2841193/Dexibell_Combo_J7

[Adan]

I gotta add my voice to those who say the leslie sim and overdrive on the J7 are disappointing. Useable, yeah, I think so, but this is obviously supposed to be a B3-centered keyboard. The B3/leslie emulation should be in the same league as the best clones, but I think the Leslie sim falls pretty far short.

[ElmerJFudd]

And yet, there's multi style demos rock to jazz by Ralf Schink that the J7 is doing a great job on. Abrama Riti on the other hand has a very different playing and timbre going from what a lot of US guys dig from their organ.

 

The J7 is cool, worthy effort out the gate. They'll tweak as user feedback comes in. It's not for me because other than the acoustic piano the other tones aren't that great and there's no synth. Other than the Stage 3 and Gemini card in the DMC-122 who has a programmable synth on their organ centric instrument? For acoustic and electric pianos I rather play a weighted action keyboard.

[AnotherScott]

Other than the Stage 3 and Gemini card in the DMC-122 who has a programmable synth on their organ centric instrument?

Roland VR-09/VR-730 though you need an iPad to program the synth... though at that point, you could arguably just use any of a zillion iPad synths. ;-) The FA-06/07 is the reverse... it has on-board synth editing, but you lose the real-time drawbar control without an add-on. There's the often-overlooked cool Casio XW-P1 though the organ is just okay (and the overdrive is awful). Also Kronos and some of the Kurzweils.

[Adan]

I'll admit I didn't listen to more than a couple videos. The Leslie might sound better with tweaking, I don't know. The overdrive probably not.

 

Definitely a "worthy effort out of the gate." Including stuff like sax while sort of neglecting synth abilities is kind of an odd design choice, imo, leaning more towards workstation than performance keyboard.

 

The Vox isn't as deep or diverse but it implements a clear design vision as a performance keyboard, that's what I like about it.

[ElmerJFudd]

Other than the Stage 3 and Gemini card in the DMC-122 who has a programmable synth on their organ centric instrument?

Roland VR-09/VR-730 though you need an iPad to program the synth... though at that point, you could arguably just use any of a zillion iPad synths. ;-) The FA-06/07 is the reverse... it has on-board synth editing, but you lose the real-time drawbar control without an add-on. There's the often-overlooked cool Casio XW-P1 though the organ is just okay (and the overdrive is awful). Also Kronos and some of the Kurzweils.

 

Very true regarding the VR-09/730 and iPad editing AND that if you're going to bring the iPad anyway to program, you may as well use it as synth. But I do like things simple - program at home! lol Once you drop certain ergonomics of the organ including drawbars, dedicated great feeling switches/buttons for CV, Leslie control and even design/look choices for me you can get too far away from the organ-ness. So it's a tricky bit of business designing an instrument that doesn't go too far into workstation/computer feeling.

[AnotherScott]

Once you drop certain ergonomics of the organ including drawbars, dedicated great feeling switches/buttons for CV, Leslie control and even design/look choices for me you can get too far away from the organ-ness. So it's a tricky bit of business designing an instrument that doesn't go too far into workstation/computer feeling.

That's true. But my Artis7 feels a lot more like a clonewheel since I put OB Dave's drawbar caps on the faders! They work on a Kronos, too, though the Kurz has better implemented semi-dedicated organ buttons (i.e. percussion, C/V).

[ElmerJFudd]

The Artis7 is a great pick for a top tier board, even one board gigs in a pinch. Made even more palatable for an vibing organ junky with the drawbar caps and spring swap you did (I've passed on older Electros because of that tight feel and lack of a synth). I wish they'd have considered the waterfall key style as well. Sheesh, that would have done it for me, ding. Not to mention the great preset work they've done all around but also on the KB3. As you know, I compromised (for the time being) on the VR-700 it checked all my boxes but a synth - but enough sampled presets to fake it till I make it. I'm still hoping for Crumar to go 73/76k on a new Mojo and turn on all engines from the Gemini (especially the VA synth). Need to see how decent the action on the VR-730 is too.

 

 

[teashea]

The Artis7 is a great pick for a top tier board, even one board gigs in a pinch. Made even more palatable for an vibing organ junky with the drawbar caps and spring swap you did (I've passed on older Electros because of that tight feel and lack of a synth). I wish they'd have considered the waterfall key style as well. Sheesh, that would have done it for me, ding. Not to mention the great preset work they've done all around but also on the KB3. As you know, I compromised (for the time being) on the VR-700 it checked all my boxes but a synth - but enough sampled presets to fake it till I make it. I'm still hoping for Crumar to go 73/76k on a new Mojo and turn on all engines from the Gemini (especially the VA synth).

 

 

The Artis 7 is my most recent keyboard. A very solid piece. It reminds me a lot of the Dexibell Stage S3. The Artis 7, however, adds the 9 sliders that really add to the usability as a Hammond clone. It is very easy to access the sounds. One does have to use the screen to set up multis (ie layers and splits) but it is easy and quick.

 

By hooking up a computer, it is possible to do some very heavy and deep editing of just about everything, including all the sounds.

 

The sounds do not have wide diversity within categories but are good quality. What I mean is that the sounds have a lot of similarity to each other within categories. There are more of them than with a Dexibell S3 but the Dexibell sounds are certainly as diverse.

 

There are a bunch of options in this area of stage organ/pianos. All the ones I am familiar with are good. No bad choice. I don't know much about Rolands - my personal bias against plastic construction.

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

The Artis 7 is my most recent keyboard....The keyboard is hammer action, so not ideal for organ but good for piano oriented playing.

Are you sure you got the 7? It does not have a hammer action. Though it is more piano-friendly than most non-hammer actions are (and certainly more organ friendly than actual hammer action boards). Though also, as alluded to earlier, I have lighter springs in mine, which I prefer.

 

The sounds do not have wide diversity within categories but are good quality. What I mean is that the sounds have a lot of similarity to each other within categories.

Not immediately apparent (and a big selling point which I think Kurzweil was remiss to not promote, as it's not mentioned on their product page or in the manual) is that you can load in any of the 1000+ PC3 programs (up until you fill the 256 user slots, anyway), so you can have a much wider range of sounds if that's what you're after. The sounds can be downloaded from http://www.soundtower.com/artis/index.html - scroll down and look for the file: PC3_LE_Library.ZIP and use the free editor on that same page to load them in.

[teashea]

The Artis 7 is my most recent keyboard....The keyboard is hammer action, so not ideal for organ but good for piano oriented playing.

Are you sure you got the 7? It does not have a hammer action. Though it is more piano-friendly than most non-hammer actions are (and certainly more organ friendly than actual hammer action boards). Though also, as alluded to earlier, I have lighter springs in mine, which I prefer.

 

The sounds do not have wide diversity within categories but are good quality. What I mean is that the sounds have a lot of similarity to each other within categories.

Not immediately apparent (and a big selling point which I think Kurzweil was remiss to not promote, as it's not mentioned on their product page or in the manual) is that you can load in any of the 1000+ PC3 programs (up until you fill the 256 user slots, anyway), so you can have a much wider range of sounds if that's what you're after. The sounds can be downloaded from http://www.soundtower.com/artis/index.html - scroll down and look for the file: PC3_LE_Library.ZIP and use the free editor on that same page to load them in.

 

You are correct ---- semi weighted action on the Artis 7 - TP 8

[Adan]

I'm glad I started this thread, it introduced me to 3 new keyboards. I didn't know about the Artis 7 either! This is what happens when you're busy changing diapers.

 

The Artis 7 looks like a great keyboard and a great value in the Kurzweil mold. I don't think it's a competitor with the Electro in the category of boards designed for live performance.

[Coker]

And there are MANY used ones out there for sale!

[AnotherScott]

You are correct ---- semi weighted action on the Artis 7 - TP 8

It actually says something for the quality of the semi-weighted that you found piano sufficiently playable that, even momentarily, you mentally classified it as hammer action. The keys are more piano-shaped than some others which could help with the illusion. But spend some more time playing organ on it... now that you "know" it's not a hammer action, I bet you find it surprisingly improved for organ. ;-)

 

The Artis 7 looks like a great keyboard and a great value in the Kurzweil mold. I don't think it's a competitor with the Electro in the category of boards designed for live performance.

It depends.

 

Electro has the edge in instant real-time tweaking with its dedicated knobs for various functions, but Kurz is more flexible and gives you much better ability to call up presets. Some live players are more on-the-fly tweakers, others mostly call up stored sounds. Both boards let you do both, but their strengths are on opposing sides.

 

For many, the most important part of real-time tweaking on these boards is the organ controls, and Kurz still gives you instant access to the 9 drawbar levels, the percussion, C/V. And with OB Dave's drawbar knob replacements which I mentioned, it "feels" that much more authentic. I do miss some Nord niceties though, like an equivalent to their sync/live buttons to instantly read the current drawbar positions.

 

Other than that, the Nord has better live effects manipulation, "hard-wired" envelope controls (albeit only two of them), the ability to more quickly manipulate either side of a split (albeit with fewer options), a setlist mode that lets you group together sets of up to 4 sounds, and the ability to load custom samples.

 

Kurz live performance advantages include better patch recall (10 Favorite buttons, plus you can get to any of 256 of your custom sounds with no more than two button presses, I think the Nord equivalent is 8 sounds within two buttons), and patch remain (especially nice if you're trying to use it as your only board), pitch bend and modulation wheels, extensive MIDI programmability (great for adding sounds via an iPad, for example), a complete VA synth including things like a mono mode and portamento (though most synth editing can only be done from computer). It's nice to be able to do a split with any sounds you want (instead of one of the two sounds having to be a piano or organ), and be able to put the split points wherever you want.

 

Operationally/philosophically, there is the difference between the Nord having a bunch of controls with labeled, dedicated functions, whereas the Kurz has sliders and knobs that can be programmed to do many more things, giving you more versatility but trading off instant simplicity. There is a lot you can tweak in real-time, but beyond the organ drawbars, you'd actually have to learn (or program) what those 9 sliders would let you do on a given program.

 

Nord and Kurz both have front panel EQ.

 

Really, they're both great performance boards. If I had to do a gig with just a single board, I might lean Nord if it was mostly pianos and organ, and lean Kurz if I needed a wider range of capabilities.

[zxcvbnm098]

They actually compliment each other quite well, which is why I use both in my rig!

 

And I concur with Scott on the best use cases if doing a single 'board gig.

[teashea]

And it is interesting that Jim Alfredson uses a Forte (which is very similar to an Artis in terms of panel layout and controls) with his XK5.

[teashea]

I must compliment AnoterScott for how gently his response was in correcting my mistake about the Artis 7 keyboard action. There are a lot of places on the web where such a mistake would draw fire and brimstone. You are a gentleman.

[cphollis]

I gotta add my voice to those who say the leslie sim and overdrive on the J7 are disappointing. Useable, yeah, I think so, but this is obviously supposed to be a B3-centered keyboard. The B3/leslie emulation should be in the same league as the best clones, but I think the Leslie sim falls pretty far short.

 

At some point, one of these clone makers will embed a Neo Vent into their board, and rule the world!!!

[teashea]

AnotherScott what is you evaluation of the difference in sounds between the Electro 5 and the Artis 7?