Hammond XK1c love?

[B3Squeeze]

Does anyone have a long term review of the XK1c? Was wondering how you think it stacks up against newer clones. Is it reliable?

[mate stubb]

The physical package is nice. Super light weight, nice action. Mine survived me dropping a heavy speaker on top and had only a dent to show.

 

Soundwise, the basic drawbar tone is good. Where it falls down is in the details - key click, chorus vibrato, overdrive, leslie sim. These are better than on any previous hammond, but do not IMO match up with the latest from Crumar, Viscount, or HX-3.

 

I ran mine thru a MiniVent and got along with it for over a year. I finally couldn't take the CV any more and moved on.

[Paul Harrison]

I gigged with an XK1c for several years and never had a problem. Its overdrive and Leslie are very good, but the Ventilator is better.

 

I am now gigging with a Viscount Legend Solo, which sounds better, particularly the chorus vibrato. Its overdrive and Leslie are also very good, but I am still using the Ventilator for now, as it is more adjustable.

 

 

[Mark Schmieder]

Although the budgeting is quite different, I'd be interested to hear how the new XK5 compares to the competitors, given that many seem to agree that the tonewheels themselves may still well be the best in the older Hammond series even if many are disappointed by the effects chain.

 

I've actually been quite happy with the sound of the XK-1c, even though it's essentially the same as the XK-3c that I had before, other than for some improvements to the effects chain. But I can't find others to try and no longer attend NAMM shows.

 

If the weather lightens up, I may try to get to GC in SF before a classical concert tonight to see if they happen to have any competing drawbar keyboards, as I seem to recall they have occasionally have a Crumar or Viscount in stock.

 

Reliability-wise, I feel this has been the strongest of my three Hammonds. Even though it shipped with a bent cable-holder, which broke when I tried to unbend it. I didn't bother asking for compensation or a return. Don't know if it happened in shipping or in manufacturing, but suspect the former as Hammond-Suzuki QA is quite good in my experience.

[Outkaster]

It's fine and reliable and there is no problem and I have seen it in plenty of pro rigs. It's served me fine. Don't look for Hammond love around here because you won't get it.

[Jim Alfredson]

Not sure about the complaints regarding the chorus/vibrato. I think it sounds really good. Using mine this weekend and enjoying it. The sim is good for most situations but I like using the Vent for rock / blues.

[Dave Bryce]

Don't look for Hammond love around here because you won't get it.

There are planty of Hammond fans here, including me.

 

I had an XK-1c for a while. Reviewed it, loved it, bought it.

 

The only reason I don't still have it was that the light weight was not great for my style of playing in combination with my Apex stand - I'm too damn heavy handed on glisses, and would regularly make the thing lift up on one end when I swept it too...shall we say...enthusiastically.

 

Definitely more on me style-wise than the instrument.

 

dB

 

 

[mate stubb]

Not sure about the complaints regarding the chorus/vibrato. I think it sounds really good. Using mine this weekend and enjoying it. The sim is good for most situations but I like using the Vent for rock / blues.

 

Jim, I've lost track, but did you move up to the XK-5? I wonder if the CV is improved on it. My complaints with CV on their previous boards had to do with it sounding vaguely phase shifty. I can take it for awhile but it fatigues my ear for some reason.

[Delaware Dave]

I had an XM2 (XK1 in a rack). I just couldn't take the C/V (too washy, phasey, whatever the right term is to describe it). I actually kept my Voce V5+ and sold the XM2, the C/V on the Voce is actually less annoying. Now I have the Gemini module (Mojo in a rack), the C/V is quite acceptable, pretty close to my B3 although not exact.

 

I have yet to hear the XK5 up close but the C/V sounds very good to me over audio/video I've heard. The overall tonality of the XK5 seems warmer in tone than previous models. The Leslie is acceptable but in my view still not Vent, Burn nor Viscount Legend quality. For it's pricetag they need to at least get the Leslie sim up to par with the competition. Tonally, run through a real Leslie, I can't really tell the difference especially with the new keybed that plays the partials on not fully depressed keys. It is a step up from all other previous hammond-suzuki made clonewheels.

[Joe Muscara]

Don't look for Hammond love around here because you won't get it.

I think the biggest gripe people around here have for the modern Hammond company is their silly marketing, acting like they are better than anyone else because they get to use the Hammond name. Other than that, they have their fans and detractors like Nord, Crumar, Roland,...

[bennyray]

I played a XK1-C for awhile and liked it probably a little more than my Nord E5D.

[Michael Wright]

I have the XK1-c and it suits my needs right now. I think it sounds better than my C2, but I was very impressed with the MOJO when I got a chance to play one.

[dbran]

I had an XK-1c for several years and never liked it. Compared to the XK-2, the onboard Leslie sim was an improvement, but that's where the improvements ended for me. The keybed didn't feel right to me (not as quick and springy as the XK-2), and most importantly, the sounds were just not as "warm and direct" as the XK-2, though I got it somewhat closer by adjusting the tonewheel settings.

 

Just to let you know where I'm coming from, I play blues, swing, and classic rock, and rarely venture into any kind of true jazz territory. I don't use chorus or vibrato, and I run my XK-2 either through the rotary horn of a KBR-3D, or through a Vent II. Also, starting out as a pianist, I pretty much learned to play organ on the XK-2, and have rarely had the chance to play a real B3. I probably have gotten so used to the way the XK-2 sounds that I am thrown off by other clonewheels even when they really are more advanced, authentic, and nuanced. I have much respect for, and completely defer to, other players here who have real experience and insight about B3s (and other Hammond organs) and clonewheels.

 

 

 

[Jim Alfredson]

 

Jim, I've lost track, but did you move up to the XK-5? I wonder if the CV is improved on it. My complaints with CV on their previous boards had to do with it sounding vaguely phase shifty. I can take it for awhile but it fatigues my ear for some reason.

 

I should have an XK5 within the next week.

[Mark Schmieder]

Good to hear, Jim. I looked at their prices again yesterday and can't do it yet, but might consider it in a year -- especially if I start gigging on keyboards again, which looks likely to happen as soon as December.

 

For me, the jazz sound is the most important, and I still feel Hammond gets this the best. I'm not quite as picky for rock sounds on organ, as so much of that is in the Leslie and distortion anyway, and there's many ways to skin that cat.

[teashea]

I don't have an XK1 but I do have an XK5. I can recommend it highly, but my recommendation means little compared to that of Jim Alfredson. He knows.

[dbran]

Yikes, this is embarrassing. The board I had and did not care for was the XK-1, not the XK-1c. A different animal! Though they both used the same VASE III sound engine, that could be where the similarity ends. They were released eight years apart.

 

I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.

[Outkaster]

Don't look for Hammond love around here because you won't get it.

There are planty of Hammond fans here, including me.

 

I had an XK-1c for a while. Reviewed it, loved it, bought it.

 

The only reason I don't still have it was that the light weight was not great for my style of playing in combination with my Apex stand - I'm too damn heavy handed on glisses, and would regularly make the thing lift up on one end when I swept it too...shall we say...enthusiastically.

 

Definitely more on me style-wise than the instrument.

 

dB

 

 

Dave no offense but I have been here a long time and the forum is slanted a little bit. I never see people dropping a grenade on a discussion about the Mojo, Gemini or Legend....never like it happens with the Hammond threads. I remember when I had a thread about the Mojo and XK1-C side by side and people came in and shit on that also. All it the thread was meant to do was educate people. I know this is true because I have had forum members personally PM me and tell me thanks for "defending" the Hammond products over the years. Granted I try not to get into these discussions anymore especially since I started focusing on piano again. None of them make anyone a better musician anyway, just help us set our best foot forward that's all.

 

I know I was in touch with the Mojo...I wanted it to work out for me and it didn't so that's OK.

[Mark Schmieder]

dbran, I was wondering about that, but figured you'd correct it.

 

My own trajectory was as follows:

 

Roland VK7

Hammond XK1

Hammond XK3c

Hammond XK1c

 

Indeed, even though all three Hammonds share the VASE II engine, there's enough other stuff going on in the sound engine and effects that each one was a noticeable step up for me.

 

As the XK5 has a new sound engine and also a more accurate keybed, I imagine it would be a huge leap beyond ANY of those listed above.

[teashea]

I can opine that the XK5 is wonderful ----- and expensive.

[Mark Schmieder]

I finally got back to major work with the XK-1c today, for the first time November 2017.

 

In that time, the Arturia modeled organ has been released, and a major update to the one for UVI Workstation. For expediency's sake, I had used those for some placeholder work over the past year.

 

Although both are impressive, there's still an edge for hardware, whether it's the tonewheel modeling (or samples), or the greatly improved chorus and vibrato (as well as Leslie and overdrive) in the XK-1c and more recent Hammond models.

 

After much tweaking and comparing, and listening to recorded tracks on unfinished songs, the one firm conclusion I came to is that the reverb is universally horrible no matter which setting is used; it muddies up the sound. So I am re-recording a lot of tracks with it off now.

 

There are times when you might want the reverb before the Leslie, which would create a bit of a dilemma. But I have neither the time nor the interest in soaking up a weekend doing that thorough a comparison of current Leslie plug-ins; I'm with Jim and Dave that the Leslie on-board the XK-1c is different from the Ventilator but pretty much on par quality-wise.

 

I still find some of the firmware bugs frustrating, in that it sometimes glitches and doesn't do what it's supposed to when menu deep-diving or even dealing with certain workflow orders for basic button and knob stuff. But there's always a workaround when that happens.

 

The main thing that cost me time was the split mode, which I thought I had programmed into more patches, and so I got confused when sending to channel 2 didn't get any sound. I read every related section in the manual before I realized it was a simple matter of engaging that switch, but my previous crib notes said the opposite. It may be that I had some sort of hybrid of notes from the XK-1c and the XK-3c though.

 

I don't use the Overdrive much, and only in small amounts when I do, and also find the key click percussion (which is now velocity-sensitive) seems to have a low trigger point, but none of that (or the Reverb) is enough for me to spend the money at this time to upgrade to the XK5. That would be more about the convenience of adding a second manual, plus better action.