new Vox Continental - Some thoughts

[jejefunkyman]

Half pedaling is for me really important. I'm so used to it that he has become an integral part of my playing. I mean it allows a very precise and subtle control of sustain which improves the playing feel in my opinion.

 

I'm a bit struggling when I'm playing for example some sound modules which don't support half pedaling.

 

I'd say one can probably do without it, but once you've tested it and use it on a regular base, it gets difficult to do without it.

 

Regarding the V861 pedal noise, it's not a hum but rather a kind of white noise. Sounds more like a cracking noise due to a bad electrical connection or soldering.

 

I think it's probably due to all the dust which accumulated inside the pedal. Unfortunately not really possible to clean up as the pedal can't easily be disassembled.

[CNPCNP]

7 hours ago, jejefunkyman said:

Half pedaling is for me really important. I'm so used to it that he has become an integral part of my playing. I mean it allows a very precise and subtle control of sustain which improves the playing feel in my opinion.

...

I'd say one can probably do without it, but once you've tested it and use it on a regular base, it gets difficult to do without it.

 

Sounds good!

 

Looking at the sustain-circuitry inside keyboard and in the pedal (assuming the VC to be alike to the Kronos), I'm curious if it actually would be FULL/HALF/NOTHING,

or also 'everything in between'.
 

As in: just those 3 values, or when you apply a gradual transition - just like expression pedals - you could get in fact the whole range, 'unstepped'.
 

I realize this may not be too relevant or simply overkill for sustain-functionality, but hey, just curious here.
When I find back my EV-5 I'll try (using T & S, leaving R floating, set min-vol at minimum), and who knows the MIDI-OUT spits out all 128 values of CC#64. 💪

 

 

7 hours ago, jejefunkyman said:

Regarding the V861 pedal noise, it's not a hum but rather a kind of white noise. Sounds more like a cracking noise due to a bad electrical connection or soldering.

 

I think it's probably due to all the dust which accumulated inside the pedal. Unfortunately not really possible to clean up as the pedal can't easily be disassembled.

Hmm, bummer they made this hard/impossible to clean.

 

[CNPCNP]

Some MIDI noodling with the KORG/VOX Continental.

First of all I well realize the VC isn't really king of the MIDI-hill.
(In terms of the SOS-review: "The MIDI specification is, to be polite, sparse. ... This is not a keyboard designed for extensive automation.")

#1.
I was more or less assuming the v2.0 SPLIT-update would also mean it'd become a bi-timbral sound module for incoming MIDI-notes, so each with an own MIDI-channel.

But it sticks to only responding to incoming MIDI on the globally set MIDI-channel.
(OK, the workaround isn't too painful: by properly throwing incoming MIDI-notes to the designated note-ranges for each of the two sounds.)

But this one-MIDI-channel-at-a-time 'robs us' from the possibility to do that part-depending panning we discussed here a short while ago.
Maybe it's exactly the reason it's all on purpose on one channel only, otherwise it'd have led to more complexity with the FX-allocation etc.

#2.

For the ORGAN-SPLIT that separate MIDI-channel setting for the lower part seems only being used for just that, its notes don't appear to be output anywhere else with that channel-setting. 

 

#3.
About the 9 drawbars and the MIDI CC they send & receive (102-110):
Just realized that these CC# are common to all the three modes: 'Organ', 'Key/Layer', 'EQ'. The selection for which of the three is made by a preceding CC#111.  🙄
A bit inconvenient, but at least good to know it works that way. (Lot's of other CC-spots could have been used...)

In case other MIDI-observations/surprises come to your minds, could be interesting, let's please hear them.

 

[niacin]

I can tell you that if you set up an external midi controller to send the CC for say LED drawstrip #4 filter cut-off, you can sweep 1-27 and the assigned synth sound responds with a smooth filter sweep, i.e. it's not restricted to the 8-segment bumpy ride you get using the drawstrips themselves.  But otherwise no, no MIDI easter eggs.  

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, CNPCNP said:

#1.
I was more or less assuming the v2.0 SPLIT-update would also mean it'd become a bi-timbral sound module for incoming MIDI-notes, so each with an own MIDI-channel.

But it sticks to only responding to incoming MIDI on the globally set MIDI-channel.
(OK, the workaround isn't too painful: by properly throwing incoming MIDI-notes to the designated note-ranges for each of the two sounds.)

But this one-MIDI-channel-at-a-time 'robs us' from the possibility to do that part-depending panning we discussed here a short while ago.

Yes, consistent with what Niacin posted on 1/28.

 

3 hours ago, CNPCNP said:

#2.

For the ORGAN-SPLIT that separate MIDI-channel setting for the lower part seems only being used for just that, its notes don't appear to be output anywhere else with that channel-setting. 

Again, picking up from what Niacin said, the lower part is not a separate MIDI channel at all; it's a split created on the same MIDI channel as the upper part. This is similar to Yamaha YC, where all 3 sounds are on the same MIDI channel, even though it permits independent access to the sounds externally.

[CNPCNP]

10 hours ago, niacin said:

I can tell you that if you set up an external midi controller to send the CC for say LED drawstrip #4 filter cut-off, you can sweep 1-27 and the assigned synth sound responds with a smooth filter sweep, i.e. it's not restricted to the 8-segment bumpy ride you get using the drawstrips themselves.  But otherwise no, no MIDI easter eggs.  

That'll be handy, thanks for mentioning. Good to hear the resolution of the actual engine is on places not as rough as those 8-segments.
(As far as actual organ-drawbars go, I could imagine for these the sound engine _is_ truncated to those though, that's fine.)

W.r.t. no MIDI easter eggs, too bad, but OK 😊
BUT...  (non-scientific observation ahead) I'd swear that I was hearing tremolo (amplitude modulation, which isn't in the FX-block) on an acoustic piano one time. This was after plugging around with expression pedals etc, and it wasn't set on the APiano-variations that have AutoPan. A power-cycle made it disappear. Once it happens again I'll double check everything, for now it's just a rumor. While hidden/undocumented possibilities could be nice, I'd rather have a VC without undefined states.
 

[CNPCNP]

8 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Yes, consistent with what Niacin posted on 1/28.

 

Again, picking up from what Niacin said, the lower part is not a separate MIDI channel at all; it's a split created on the same MIDI channel as the upper part. This is similar to Yamaha YC, where all 3 sounds are on the same MIDI channel, even though it permits independent access to the sounds externally.

Thanks, too bad it's implemented like this here, but no showstopper. And apologies for bringing it up for discussion once more. I've been reading various parts of this mighty thread here, learned enough to make me want a VC, and now I have it it may be good to read even more or simply all of it.

Thanks again for all the info & shared experiences here, much appreciated!
 

[CNPCNP]

Hello,

Ongoing enjoyment of the freshly acquired VOX Continental (61) here. 👍

And adding that gorgeous-love-it-or-hate-it chrome contraption/stand was a no brainer. 🌞

Thought to have understood the Vox/Korg Continental chrome stand is a dedicated derivative from a way more expensive universal Sequenz-brand stand, right?

Meanwhile we've arrived at the next stage:
if/how to extend it, as in:

an additional tier - and/or trying to make use of the open space left/right of the VC 61 (for audio interface, small mixer, ...)

I saw those SKH-B add-ons (as pictured), I assume these will fit the tier of the VOX/Sequenz-stand as well?

As far as separate additional tiers that would indeed fit the VOX stand: what we'd need here would then be a STA-M (-Black) type, correct?
Stating the obvious, it then looks like it would make more sense (more economical) to simply get another complete VOX stand for just the tier, right? 🙄
(In addition, those separate and more costly tiers seem to be less readily available than a complete second stand-set as well.)
 
BUT the remaining thing is then that stuff you want to use it for needs to be compatible with the mounting method as used for the VC61/73.
Can then imagine those SKH-B mounts would be better suited, so need to get these as well (although they don't seem readily available).

What have you people done for extending/adapting those VOX stands?

Thanks!

[niacin]

8 hours ago, CNPCNP said:

Thought to have understood the Vox/Korg Continental chrome stand is a dedicated derivative from a way more expensive universal Sequenz-brand stand, right?

Yes

8 hours ago, CNPCNP said:

I saw those SKH-B add-ons (as pictured), I assume these will fit the tier of the VOX/Sequenz-stand as well?

Yes

8 hours ago, CNPCNP said:

As far as separate additional tiers that would indeed fit the VOX stand: what we'd need here would then be a STA-M (-Black) type, correct?

No.  Not the same length as the tier that comes with the Vox.  The only way to get 2 tiers is to buy a second Vox Continental stand or buy 2 new tiers of the same size from Sequenz.

[Fleer]

Just put two Vox73s on top of each other and be done with it. Pretty pretty sweet. 

[CNPCNP]

23 hours ago, niacin said:

Yes

Yes

No.  Not the same length as the tier that comes with the Vox.  The only way to get 2 tiers is to buy a second Vox Continental stand or buy 2 new tiers of the same size from Sequenz.

Thanks for the info, good to know what to get and to know what to avoid!

 

20 hours ago, Fleer said:

Just put two Vox73s on top of each other and be done with it. Pretty pretty sweet. 

You mean the tiers, or the actual machines? That's a bit risky, before I know it I end up with three of these goodies just like you  😉 💪👍
The second tier initially intended to add other stuff (to use with my orange VC61), but I must admit, I don't know what would happen if I ran into a orange 73 🫢

[CNPCNP]

On 2/27/2024 at 5:23 AM, Fleer said:

Just put two Vox73s on top of each other and be done with it. Pretty pretty sweet. 

 

 

On 2/28/2024 at 1:29 AM, CNPCNP said:

..... (to use with my orange VC61), but I must admit, I don't know what would happen if I ran into a orange 73 🫢

 

If I'd be adding a second VOX (to my present 61) it would be a 73, for the extended range. Just curious to your setup with two 73s, do you use two of them to be able to avoid splits? ... Or now being able to have different FX on each, separate outputs, ... or still other nifty things which I hadn't realized now possible? 

 

Or just for the fun of it (and great looks) ? 🌞

Little detail, I think to understand a 61 & 73 would misalign (each on their own tier) on the Vox/Sequence stand, right?
As in: keys not lining up, because of the unequal number of additional keys left & right. (Nothing that some rivet-drilling couldn't fix though).

Thanks!

[niacin]

You can move those plastic support arms to wherever you want so you can line the 2 boards up so that middle C on one is directly above middle C on the other, if that's what you're asking.

 

I got 2 Vox's to have different FX on each, or FX on one and no FX on the other, e.g. Rhodes with phaser and delay on one and clean bass on the other.

[Fleer]

And definitely for the fun of it

[CNPCNP]

12 hours ago, niacin said:

You can move those plastic support arms to wherever you want so you can line the 2 boards up so that middle C on one is directly above middle C on the other, if that's what you're asking.

 

Thanks, yes that was the intent of the question. With the stoppers as they come from the factory there's only one possible position for the 61, right in the centre.
But I see, silly me 😊 , both those keyboard holders were already pre-inserted, but these can possibly be removed and placed outside the stoppers, that's good. (And otherwise removing those stoppers/rivets.)

 

12 hours ago, niacin said:

I got 2 Vox's to have different FX on each, or FX on one and no FX on the other, e.g. Rhodes with phaser and delay on one and clean bass on the other.

Nice, that configuration you describe sounds good!

I forgot, indeed at least two people here with multiple of them. 👍👍

As a relatively newbie to keys I feel a bit embarrassed to get me another one as well (be it a 61 + 73 then), but the excuses to do so keep piling up 🙂 
Here's a few more: less hauling back & forth between locations (home/rehearsal), ... having a backup when one happens to become unrepairable... etc.

Thanks/bye

[CNPCNP]

11 hours ago, Fleer said:

And definitely for the fun of it

You people should stop me, not encourage me 🥲 . But so true, at the end of the day fun should always be the final push 🌞

 

An alternative I briefly considered when testing & buying the VC 61 was to also get the Yamaha CK61 which I compared it to at that store (could have had a package deal on this combination). I figure the VC + CK cover more area than twice a VC, but since the VC immediately felt like being a potential long term companion (for me as a relative newbie to keys at least) - and that I wasn't too grabbed by the CK61 - made me skip this combination.
 

Now for twice the same VC model (be it a 61 + 73) I figure it'll indeed still cover less area than that VC + CK combination, but also for that combination there's still some functionality I'm missing, so that has to be added anyway (by means of laptop).

But hey, forget all of this. I simply want that VC 73 since it also starts at E, just like my main instruments (bass&guitar) 😊

[Brad Kaenel]

On 2/26/2024 at 4:20 PM, niacin said:

The only way to get 2 tiers is to buy a second Vox Continental stand or buy 2 new tiers of the same size from Sequenz.

It's not just the tiers, though; there's also a strut that connects the triangular legs together at the bottom.  As far as I know, you can't buy one of those, so the stand is fixed at the width it was designed for the VC.

 

It might be helpful to read these earlier posts in this thread:

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/167744-new-vox-continental-some-thoughts/page/3/#comment-2675538

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/167744-new-vox-continental-some-thoughts/page/6/#comment-2764165

 

I still use my VC73 stand everyday (though not with that keyboard).  The only way you can utilize the standard Sequenz tiers that are available from retailers is to purchase a long one (model STA-L-B), disassemble the end caps (easy), cut the bars to the needed length (also easy, with a hacksaw), then reassemble the end caps.

 

The included VC stand is custom-sized for that keyboard, so you essentially have to custom-size your add-on tiers from the stock ones.

 

[niacin]

2 hours ago, Brad Kaenel said:

It's not just the tiers, though; there's also a strut that connects the triangular legs together at the bottom.  As far as I know, you can't buy one of those, so the stand is fixed at the width it was designed for the VC

There’s enough give in the frame such that 2 Standard size tiers (STA-S-B) work fine, it’s what I did.

[Fleer]

On 3/4/2024 at 3:59 PM, CNPCNP said:

You people should stop me, not encourage me 🥲 . But so true, at the end of the day fun should always be the final push 🌞

 

An alternative I briefly considered when testing & buying the VC 61 was to also get the Yamaha CK61 which I compared it to at that store (could have had a package deal on this combination). I figure the VC + CK cover more area than twice a VC, but since the VC immediately felt like being a potential long term companion (for me as a relative newbie to keys at least) - and that I wasn't too grabbed by the CK61 - made me skip this combination.
 

Now for twice the same VC model (be it a 61 + 73) I figure it'll indeed still cover less area than that VC + CK combination, but also for that combination there's still some functionality I'm missing, so that has to be added anyway (by means of laptop).

But hey, forget all of this. I simply want that VC 73 since it also starts at E, just like my main instruments (bass&guitar) 😊

I did so too. Get a CK61 I mean. To keep my three foxy Voxes company

[CNPCNP]

On 3/4/2024 at 10:37 PM, Brad Kaenel said:

The included VC stand is custom-sized for that keyboard, so you essentially have to custom-size your add-on tiers from the stock ones.

 

 

 

On 3/5/2024 at 12:40 AM, niacin said:

There’s enough give in the frame such that 2 Standard size tiers (STA-S-B) work fine, it’s what I did.

 

 

Good to know about the (im-)possibilities of these Sequenz stands, thanks both.
 

Since the type most easily available (and relatively the cheapest as well) is the actual dedicated VC stand,
for getting a second tier it looks best to simply get another full set (which will have been pointed out here somewhere previously).
And in case another type of keyboard needs to be mounted then trying to find a Sequenz SKH-B mounting set.
 

[CNPCNP]

On 3/6/2024 at 5:58 AM, Fleer said:

I did so too. Get a CK61 I mean. To keep my three foxy Voxes company

 

Ouch! 😃 Great!

I figure I still have many hours of happily exploring the VC possibilities ahead of me, so while it's hard to resist a 73 (for convenience/fun), it'd still be on the same path.

Adding a CK right now would diverge attention a bit too much I guess, but that doesn't mean it won't be added later. 🥲

While at it, I figure you then perhaps also have a Reface CP somewhere (or perhaps several), right?
That pretty common praise for its EPs remains intriguing; I don't recall a comparison with the VC.
 

[CNPCNP]

Triggered by this thread here, but since it's a thing likely to be relevant for other non-display keyboards as well I thought it may be best to post it as a new topic:

 

 

Bye

 

[Fleer]

12 hours ago, CNPCNP said:

 

Ouch! 😃 Great!

I figure I still have many hours of happily exploring the VC possibilities ahead of me, so while it's hard to resist a 73 (for convenience/fun), it'd still be on the same path.

Adding a CK right now would diverge attention a bit too much I guess, but that doesn't mean it won't be added later. 🥲

While at it, I figure you then perhaps also have a Reface CP somewhere (or perhaps several), right?
That pretty common praise for its EPs remains intriguing; I don't recall a comparison with the VC.
 

Spot on. 
And I love that little one to bits. 
Here’s that fun vid again, comparing it to the CK:

 

[CNPCNP]

10 hours ago, Fleer said:

Spot on. 
And I love that little one to bits. 
Here’s that fun vid again, comparing it to the CK:

 

Thanks for that clip-link, had seen it, it's a good one.

 

Ah OK, you have the Reface CP (and at least one CK61) as well, this changes the landscape a bit.
I mean, so the fact that you _have_ a certain keyboard doesn't mean it's your number #1, but that preference is expressed in the _amount_ you have of them. ☺️

I like it!  

 

 

[CNPCNP]

On 2/12/2024 at 4:45 PM, jejefunkyman said:

Half pedaling is for me really important. I'm so used to it that he has become an integral part of my playing. I mean it allows a very precise and subtle control of sustain which improves the playing feel in my opinion.

Just a quick question before I get this pedal:
does the half pedaling with the Korg DS-1H damper pedal work for all sound-types (ORGAN, E.PIANO, PIANO, KEY/LAYER),

or by design/engine-limitations just for the acoustic pianos?

Thanks!

[AnotherScott]

I'd say at the least, it can't do anything it's not programmed to do, so my first thought is, what would you want them to program it to do? On a piano, it's replicating an existing physical behavior. There's no natural expectation of what half-pedaling "should" do on most other sounds, since what it does on a piano sound is meaningless in the context of organs, strings, horns, etc. So my assumption would be that it would not do anything.

[jejefunkyman]

It works for sure with electric pianos. 

[CNPCNP]

6 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

I'd say at the least, it can't do anything it's not programmed to do, so my first thought is, what would you want them to program it to do? On a piano, it's replicating an existing physical behavior. There's no natural expectation of what half-pedaling "should" do on most other sounds, since what it does on a piano sound is meaningless in the context of organs, strings, horns, etc. So my assumption would be that it would not do anything.

Hi, thanks for the response.

Perhaps I've not put my question in the clearest way. The Vox/Korg Continental manual mentions that the Korg DS-1H damper pedal gives the half pedaling possibility, but does not explicitely say that this is indeed for all sound-types.

I forgot which machine, but happened to see for some (way) other keyboard it only does the 'half' for certain sounds. Then realizing the VC uses different engines for the various types, I could then imagine the 'half' not necessarily being implemented for all sound types. Then better know this before buying.

 

Just now, jejefunkyman said:

It works for sure with electric pianos. 

Cool, thanks, good to know. I guess this being the most important one (for me as well), so thanks, go, (I) buy, done.

Bye!

[CNPCNP]

FWIW, just wondering what the known bugs are? (Not the desired additional functionality)

Here's one:  after orderly jumping around for various sounds, the VC-v2 here landed at a certain point on an (acoustic grand) piano ... with tremolo.
Which isn't one of the intended use-cases as I understood it.
Tap-tempo could control the rate, but the lever couldn't disable it.

 

Switching power off & on made it disappear, but I thought it has happened before... anybody recognizing this?

 

[AnotherScott]

23 minutes ago, CNPCNP said:

FWIW, just wondering what the known bugs are? (Not the desired additional functionality)

there was the one I posted at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/167744-new-vox-continental-some-thoughts/page/13/#comment-2839567