Mac virgin looking for guidance

[dongna]

I finally did something I've been wanting to do for some time. I bought a Mac, specifically a Mac Mini, for use in my keyboard setup. I've had previous music computer setups, but they've all been Windows (and, to date me, even back to the DOS days). My last such setup was MIDI sequencing only-- no HD recording-- and was quite some time ago. For the past several years, for various reasons not relevant to the discussion at hand, I have not had a computer hooked up to my keyboard setup. But I follow all the talk here about VST's and DAW's and finally decided I wanted to get back into the computer connected world to see what all the fuss is about. I decided to go Mac because this will be a dedicated music computer (I have a Windows 10 machine that will continue to serve all my other computing needs), and I thought it a good opportunity to learn about the Mac world. I also am very intrigued with Mainstage and wanted to be able to run that.

 

So, my reason for posting is because, as I am a Mac virgin, I need a crash course on just just about everything Mac-- from monitors to audio interfaces to software.

 

As I said, Mainstage is a no-brainer given the measly cost. I'm a very piano-centric player and an very intrigued by Pianoteq. But I figure additional VST's beyond Mainstage can be added over time and are not my first priority. As for DAW's, right now I'm leaning toward Logic for no particular reason... anything else I should be looking at?

 

I need a monitor, and honestly I'm confused by all the connection options offered by the Mini. I don't actually have the Mini yet, so I'm not even entirely sure what my options are as far as connectivity. I'm thinking I want a fairly large (say 27" or larger) monitor with as much resolution as I can get. Is there a particular route I should be going here?

 

Lastly, I assume I'll need an audio interface. I want to be able to connect at least 2 keyboards, ideally 3... should I be looking for an interface with that many inputs, or is it better to look at a small mixer which, if I understand correctly, would permit use of an interface with just 1 pair of inputs? I don't sing or play any acoustic instruments, so a mic input isn't essential (but I guess might be nice to have just in case-- most interfaces seem to have them anyways). As for budget, from the research I've done it seems I can get pretty decent quality in the $200-300 range?

 

So I know this is a very broad-based post... please don't feel the need to address every issue. If you have input on any one area that's fine. Thanks for any and all help.

[Lee T]

Hi, I also use a Mac Mini. Good choice and a lot of bang for the buck.

I also use Pianoteq and it is my favoured piece of piano software. Yes there are slightly better sounding pianos but over the years I've not found anything that, sounds strange this, has the 'feel' of Pianoteq. The Bluthner Model 1 add on is just superb.

In terms of a monitor, get the largest you can comfortably work with that has a HDMI input.

With regards to an audio interface, a used MOTU 828Mk2 or Mk3 makes a good combination if your Mini has a firewire connector. Midi in/out, 2 mic pres, 8 in/out analogue connectors and in the case of the Mk3 there is built in DSP. I've had one hooked up now for 5 years and it's been rock solid. Driver support is excellent which is important if you're going to regularly update your OS.

[Reezekeys]

I need a monitor, and honestly I'm confused by all the connection options offered by the Mini. I don't actually have the Mini yet, so I'm not even entirely sure what my options are as far as connectivity. I'm thinking I want a fairly large (say 27" or larger) monitor with as much resolution as I can get. Is there a particular route I should be going here?

The latest Minis have a mini-display port, HDMI and come with an HDMI to DVI adapter so any off-the-shelf monitor with these connectors should work.

 

Lastly, I assume I'll need an audio interface. I want to be able to connect at least 2 keyboards, ideally 3... should I be looking for an interface with that many inputs, or is it better to look at a small mixer which, if I understand correctly, would permit use of an interface with just 1 pair of inputs?

You definitely need multiple inputs if you plan on simultaneously recording multiple keyboards. Otherwise an interface with 2 ins (1 stereo input) will work, however in that case a little mixer isn't a bad idea as that will allow you to avoid re-patching every time you want to record a different keyboard. But I would think hard about how much I'd be doing that, given that Mainstage and other virtual instruments might satisfy most of your keyboard sound needs.

 

[edit] I just checked and the mini has an analog line in and headphone out so you don't have to buy an audio interface right away if you want to wait a while & see where your workflow takes you, and can deal with stereo in & out a trip to Radio Shack for 1/4" to 1/8" adapters will do it (if you can find a Radio Shack, lol)

 

As for budget, from the research I've done it seems I can get pretty decent quality in the $200-300 range?

Yes. I'm sure you'll get a lot of recommendations here. Everyone will tout the interface they bought!

[dongna]

In addressing the comments about the Firewire connector and about the monitor connections that the latest Minis have... I should perhaps have mentioned that I bought a 2012 model Mini, which, after researching, I found out was the last model to have a quad-core processor, and memory that was not soldered in. It also still has Firewire, which I believe the current models do not-- although I'm fairly convinced that a Firewire audio interface is probably not a lasting investment at this point.

[Reezekeys]

Firewire is pretty much done IMO but your Mini is the first with USB3 which is nice. I would get a USB interface. Most are USB2 since those have more than enough throughput to handle what you're doing. USB3 and Thunderbolt will carry you for quite a while in "computer relevancy time" I think.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

My mini is quad core i7, 16GB RAM 2011 version, also switched to SSD. I have Samsung 1080p 32" HDTV as a display both in shop and home. Using the HDMI switch in the Samsung, I can easily use it for television, connection to a PC, and connection to the Mini by simply switching inputs. Works great, and reasonable pricing for 1920x1080 display.

 

In fact, a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse from a PC work fine for almost everything, although I do also have an Apple BT keyboard.

Part of the original concept of the Mini was the idea of moving a PC owner over to the Apple universe.

 

I now have a Focusrite 18i8 USB interface that I can use with both Mac and PC. However, both the audio in and out ports support both analog and digital connections, and may well do what you need, at least worth a try. Simple TOSlink to 3.5mm adapter will allow connecting digital (of course, the device connected must have a TOSlink digital connection).

 

MainStage obviously (ridiculously cheap for what you get). Nice thing about Logic is the interface is similar to MainStage, making it easer to transition. Even if you get Logic, MainStage is a nice addition for times all you need to do is live audio.

 

Speaking as someone who has used both PC and Mac for audio work, welcome to a world where things just plain tend to work instead of being finicky.

 

 

[Iconoclast]

If you end up with Firewire, there's pretty inexpensive FW->TBold adapters.

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD464LL/A/apple-thunderbolt-to-firewire-adapter?afid=p238%7Cs4YeFq8ZJ-dc_mtid_1870765e38482_pcrid_52243316890_&cid=aos-us-kwgo-pla-btb--slid--product-MD464LL/A

 

I'm still using a firestudio project in my home studio. I use a M-Audio Fast Track Ultra (don't think they make it anymore) in my live rig. It's probably more than you need but still pretty cheap.

 

Remember that you can run other instruments to mainstage simultaneously, so if you have extra inputs on your I/O device you can run anything through there that will connect.

 

My mainstage rig is pretty extensive, I've run as many as two keyboards and a guitar through at the same time. You're only limited by ins/outs and throughput. With FW/TBolt/USB3 throughput is basically the entire band in stereo so that's not an issue.

[WesG]

BTW, many mac n00bs try to keep doing things they way they did them on Windows, which can be made to work, but is awkward. My advice is to buy wholeheartedly into the Apple ecosystem, if your main goal is a fluid, trouble-free user experience. In order words, dear virgin... "Sssshhhh...just let it happen"

[Stokely]

I've had good luck with a number of cheap(ish) interfaces:

Mackie mixer with firewire; Behringer tiny uc202 usb; Zoom H2 (!) They all just work, which is a recurring theme with macs in my experience. I've worked on windows for many years, done a fair bit of audio with it, but overall I like OSX better...though I don't get too caught up with OSes, they are there to find and open my apps really.

 

Mainstage is pretty neat, though I use my mac at home with it's "parent", Logic Pro X. Hard to beat that deal for a DAW and many included virtual instruments. Piano is not so hot (IMO) so I ended up getting an Addictive Keys bundle when it was one sale last week. I might have tried Pianoteq (and might again someday) but I was trying to keep my budget under $100.

 

Other than hardware prices, the most grumbling I've heard recently when it comes to macs and audio has been that there has been some issues with the last couple OS releases, especially with Logic, which is Apple so there's really no excuse Performance issues mostly. I'm still on Mountain Lion and won't upgrade to Sierra just yet.

[ElmerJFudd]

Obviously a Focusrite or Presonus, even the better MOTUs like the 828x or USB/Firewire hybrid predecessor would be just fine. But I have to say how good the Apogee stuff sounds and obviously the way Apple has worked out a little deeper software integration with Logic/Mainstage is nice. If it's in your budget a Duet (refurb even - direct from Apogee or second hand) is worth a look. I'm using the quartet right now. The headphone amp and DA to monitors just sounds great. Don't know how they do that exactly but A/B/Cing with my older MOTU 828 hybrid and built in audio on my Mac. Shrug. It's a more attractive sound to my ears - and the MOTU also sounds better than the sound card on the motherboard. None are bad. But if you're a picky listener. Worth a look.

[Markay]

You don't mention which OS you are running. If you are not on Sierra I would recommend you install that first. Core audio has been revised in Sierra and overcomes audio issues some experienced in Yosemite and El Cap. Some VI's and plugs have not been updated to be compliant with Sierra or are flaky based on user reports.

 

Sticking with VI's that are Sierra compliant means that you should not have any issues going forward with future OS updates.

[dongna]

Thank you all for the replies. I have some follow up questions which I will get to here shortly. But my first priority is procuring a monitor.

 

Are you Mini owners using the HDMI port or the Thunderbolt port for your monitor? From what I'm reading, the HDMI is limited to 1080 resolution (although I did find one site that said it could go up to 1200?) Also I'm confused-- is Thunderbolt the same as mini DisplayPort? Is there any reason *not* to use the Thunderbolt port for my monitor? Possibly save it for a future external hard drive?

[ElmerJFudd]

The thunderbolt port is sort of like... well very similar to having a PCIe bus on a cable. There's enough bandwidth and speed on thunderbolt to handle your monitoring needs and a hard drive, and an audio/midi interface. But on the other hand - how nuts do you want to go with a monitor? There's plenty of very good monitors for quite cheap at the moment that will take that HDMI connection no problem.

 

A thunderbolt dock, http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-thunderbolt-dock/

will give you more ports and more variety of ports than you can shake a stick at.

 

Some thunderbolt monitors will give you a few additional connectors, most commonly USB: http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/06/24/roundup-the-best-external-monitor-alternatives-to-apples-discontinued-thunderbolt-display

[dongna]

I recognize the value, for certain applications, of having as many pixels on the monitor as practical. I'm assuming a DAW would be such an application. So, yeah, I'm not adverse to going a little nuts on the monitor. Unless the consensus is that 1080 is perfectly adequate for DAW use? Your point about there being plenty of good cheap HDMI monitors is a good one. That's sort of what I'm asking... in everyone's experience, is that "good enough" or can/should I be looking at leveraging the Thunderbolt port, with the added resolution it provides, for the monitor?

[Reezekeys]

For grins I hooked up my MacBook Pro to my 39" seiki 4K television. Nothing like working on a DAW with 3840 x 2160 pixels. Not very practical if you ask me, but it was impressive to put about 100 tracks on the mixing board and not have to scroll! At 30Hz refresh, the mouse was jerky but that's what I get for buying a 1st-gen 4K TV (on the much brighter side, I paid $260 for it including tax a year & a half ago, and it's a great TV!).

 

everymac.com has this to say about the late 2012 Core i5 Mini: "This model simultaneously supports 1920x1200 on an HDMI or a DVI display (using the included HDMI-to-DVI adapter) and 2560x1600 on a Thunderbolt or Mini DisplayPort display or even a VGA display (with an optional Mini DisplayPort-to-VGA adapter, which is compatible with the Thunderbolt port)."

 

Looks like you have some good options for decently high resolutions.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

What I use with the Mini when in my shop is a dual monitor configuration, with the HDMI connected 1920x1080 as the main screen, and a VGA adapter connected 1280x1024. This gives me a good interface for DAW type work (also use the same system on the PC).

I have considered getting a 2560x1600 Mac monitor, but really have as many total pixels with my dual monitor system and use existing equipment (only thing I had to buy was the Tnunderbolt to VGA adapter). It would be possible to get more total pixels by using 2560x1600 AND HDTV 1920x1080, but those two side by side would be very difficult to see without a rolling chair and sliding around several feet.

I considered 39 or 45 inch HDTV, but find that 32 is about all that combines fitting well on the desk and the ability to see all of the screen with a minimum of body movement (my vision is not so great anyhow). My Living Room HDTV is 55", and I do have a Windows 8.1 computer running Media Center that I use as a DVR. It does have some standard office type apps on it, but is not really convenient for regular computer type work.

 

[dongna]

Sorry to be asking these "nuts and bolts" types of questions... but what are you Mac Mini users using for keyboard and mouse? I'd like to use a wireless keyboard and mouse because I'm planning to have the mini off to the side of where my keyboard and monitor will be. The Apple wireless keyboard looks like a toy, and expensive! Yikes. And the Magic Mouse is so flat, it definitely doesn't fit my larger hand (for reference, I use a Logitech Performance MX on my PC). There's got to be a better option.

 

Also, are their any issues with using Bluetooth? I thought I recall reading in past threads that Bluetooth is one possible cause of audio glitches and needs to be switched off? Or maybe I'm thinking of WiFi?

[MoodyBluesKeys]

The Apple Bluetooth wireless keyboard has ONE advantage: it can send the specific key combination needed for a screenprint. It is well built. I also use a Dell BlueTooth keyboard with my Mini from time to time, it is the one that will do a screenprint in Windows running in Parallels on the Mac.

First initial setup of mouse and keyboard require a wired USB connection, so one can log in and move around the screen to setup pairing of the Bluetooth devices. A standard USB HP PC mouse and keyboard work just fine. BT has a range up to 30 feet, and multiple keyboards/mice can be used on different devices in the same room, since each pairs with one computer/tablet (Yes I use a BT keyboard from time to time on the iPads and iPhone, when I want to type at any length).

 

The older Magic Mouse actually works quite well. The newest model does not have removable batteries, and can not be used at the same time it is being charged. Apple also has a Bluetooth Trackpad, if you prefer. I use the trackpad on my Macbook Pro, and have it set so that the lower right corner produces a right-click. I have not purchased the Apple mouse nor trackpad. I already had a number of Dell BT keyboards and mice - works very well. The scroll wheel on the Dell mouse works backward as compared to using it on a PC, but one can go into the Mouse Settings and reverse that.

I've never had any problem with BT causing audio problems. WiFi, on the other hand can be a problem. My Mini is normally direct wired into the network with Ethernet, which takes precedence if both are available.