Dr88s Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 What would you do? Short set in a multi-band fundraiser show. Space is not a consideration - this is a LARGE stage. I want to play my Nord Stage standing for organ / synth songs but would like to sit to play the Privia for the more expressive piano songs. The boards should be close together as I'm MIDIing the Casio to the Nord with all sounds from the NS2. I'd like to be seen and not hiding in the shadows. I can set up almost anywhere, even front of stage just off center. I've considered L shape with the Nord paralleling the stage front and the Casio at 90° so I'm seen from the side when sitting. The other main consideration is putting one tier of my spider way down for the Casio, one way up for the Nord, and angle at 45° To be seen either way. Pros? Cons? Alternatives to consider? Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Pros of an L are that you connect better to each board if you are at the correct height for that board alone. Cons are stage real estate (not a problem here) and that playing both boards at once can get awkward. If you are playing only one at a time on a large stage, that's what I would probably recommend. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Some options: 1) Buy a longer MIDI cord so that distance between the two boards are no longer an issue (presuming you're not doing any patch changes during the piano songs). 2) Go with the L shape, but angled (apex of the L facing audience), so the "standing" part doesn't visually hide you when you play seated. 3) You can do the "hi / lo" thing on one stand, I've seen lots of guys do that. I am just not a big fan of that visually, just aesthetically - but maybe that's just me and personal tastes. Of these 3, I'd probably opt for #1 if it was me. I personally like the visual appeal of having a "piano rig" (in a piano shell if I can dream up anything), and a separate standing rig - especially on a larger stage. Just my 0.02 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 Agreed. Even just sitting down at the lower board with the upper tier towering above me felt awkward. How long of a MIDI run is safe? Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickd Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 You'll be fine running MIDI fairly long distances between two boards - the MIDI spec quotes 50 feet max. I got curious and looked up the tech detail - more info than you could ever want is here: https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2540102/Re_MIDI_cables_length_delay_is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 The MIDI specification says 50 feet. You can run longer with repeaters but it increases latency. EDIT: Doh! Beat me to it! Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 50' WAY overkill. 10' should do it! Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 I am a huge fan of the "L" with apex facing the audience, for when space allows. House of Blues 2015 with my MOXF over FA-08 on left and PX-5S to the right. http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/escaperocks1/angled_zpsb9vy4idt.jpg As far as MIDI: I regularly use a 25 foot MIDI cable between my Alesis Vortex and MOXF6 with no issues. David Gig Rig:Depends on the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 David, I assure you my crowd will be neither as large or as eager as yours! I'm just trying to picture the aesthetics of the same with one board lowered to half the height of the other... Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 David, I assure you my crowd will be neither as large or as eager as yours! I'm just trying to picture the aesthetics of the same with one board lowered to half the height of the other... I'd still go with the "L" as was suggested by Timwat. Just separate them a bit and it will look cool and you wont be hidden by the higher board. David Gig Rig:Depends on the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Surprised to see folks like the L with the audience-facing apex. I can't stand playing in a position where I can't see my bandmates. You say this is a short set in a multi-band show. You may need to consider setup/teardown time. If you go with a "stacker" setup, you might be able to set up off stage and wheel on with some kind of dolly platform. Wes Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Wes, Not sure why you wouldn't be able to see bandmates with the L config @ 45 as we're suggesting. Agree that setup / teardown is another consideration. But I'm sure you'd agree that feeling good and comfort while you're playing the gig - and feeling good about how everything looks to the audience - is an even larger consideration. One of the things that happens on large stages is that you have to rely on monitoring even more so, and there is the natural feeling of isolation when the band now has 10 - 15 feet between band members. It looks great to the audience, and is a huge challenge the first time I encountered it to still feel "connected". Anyway, just shooting suggestions out there. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 Surprised to see folks like the L with the audience-facing apex. I can't stand playing in a position where I can't see my bandmates. You say this is a short set in a multi-band show. You may need to consider setup/teardown time. If you go with a "stacker" setup, you might be able to set up off stage and wheel on with some kind of dolly platform. Wes At each band's soundcheck, each member sets up as he/she wishes. The stagehands mark all positions with gaffers tape on the stage floor and carry the rigs still wired (minus AC of course) 'en bloc' side stage. Between bands they can get the rigs out in less than a minute. I'm astounded every time I see it. Thus, set up time isn't an issue either. Yes, this is the only way I've ever gigged and yes, I realize how spoiled I am. Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Dude...do they peel you grapes as you recline on the settee as well? .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 If space is truly no issue, I am a huge fan of the "2-station" set-up--your standing rig facing forward in one place, and your sitting rig next to it, also facing forward (or close to it). The stage-craft of moving from the synth board to the "real" piano (represented by you sitting for it instead of standing) makes good optics, and you don't compromise any sightlines or convenience. Otherwise, I too do the "L" for stand-sit gigs, with my "stand" boards not too high, and my "sit" board not too low, so audience sightlines are roughly the same whichever set-up you're facing. Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 Dude...do they peel you grapes as you recline on the settee as well? Yes, but only green ones. And they sometimes forget to fan me while doing so. Good help is so hard to find these days... Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 MOI, I also envision the dramatic 'leaving the synth' to sit down to play in my hea, but deep down I know tgat the crowd cares FAR less about what I do than I imagine. Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aronnelson Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 I sometimes set up the L but one keyboard rig is directly facing the other side of the stage and the other keyboard is facing forward. If you really want to be seen playing-the Derek Sherinian tilt the keyboard forward deal is a great visual impact getter. Korg Kronos, Roland RD-88, Korg Kross, JP8000, MS2000, Sequential Pro One, Micromoog, Yamaha VL1, author of unrealBook for iPad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Dude Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 http://www.eastportlandblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/emerson2.jpg I happen to like this configuration the best. Playing backwards while laying down, sure the get the ladies attention. Don't forget the dagger. Mills Dude -- Lefty Hack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 I am a huge fan of the "L" with apex facing the audience, for when space allows. I'd prefer to separate the apex and just set them up parallel, Keith Emerson style. Get rid of that barrier between you and the audience. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 the MIDI spec quotes 50 feet max. That's a vague guideline. I have seen OTS 50ft MIDI cables that don't work. I have successfully run MIDI over a 150ft snake cable glitch free. What's the difference? Capacitance per foot rating of the cable, which the MIDI spec has ZERO mention. The higher the cap/ft rating, the worse it degrades high frequencies. MIDI is 31.25Khz frequency so you need a REALLY GOOD cable as you approach 50ft (read: lowest cap/ft cable that you can find). Another reason why I avoid OTS cables and make my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 There's always this layout: http://i42.tinypic.com/17yano.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 MOI, I also envision the dramatic 'leaving the synth' to sit down to play in my hea, but deep down I know tgat the crowd cares FAR less about what I do than I imagine. Indeed, though I don't really mean it in the "Oooh, the wondrous man on the pushy-buttony thing is doing another wizard-like trick" way. It does help signal a vibe change to crowd, and I'm a fan of the stage optics of it. If I can pull it off, and gig allows for it, I'll do it. Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyNQ Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 What would you do? Short set in a multi-band fundraiser show. Space is not a consideration - this is a LARGE stage. This is the setup one of my bands uses for large stages. Keys are set up stage right (left from audience perspective) at the back on a couple of risers. This is a two player configuration, when we play with only one KB player the far right setup disappears, leaving the "L". I don't sit, but it would be easy enough to place a "sitting" 'board in that far right spot, or alternatively replace my forward-facing board with a sitting configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 Cowboy: Risers are a no-go for this show. Last year I sat exactly there. Lots of room to work and lots of space to place the monitor wedge, but I was for all intents and purposes invisible... Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Just strikes me that now in 2016, the majority of Geoff Downes' rig could be handled by MainStage and a Kronos. And a Nord Lead. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyNQ Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Cowboy: Risers are a no-go for this show. Last year I sat exactly there. Lots of room to work and lots of space to place the monitor wedge, but I was for all intents and purposes invisible... Yeah, fair call you would be too without a riser. Can you push your way to the front of stage? Edit: it just occurred to me that when Santana toured here a while back Dave Matthews had a sitting L thing going on, he was stage right and at the very front. He was actually at a bit of angle so that when he played his organ (on his left) he was facing back slightly away from the audience towards the rest of the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyS Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Just strikes me that now in 2016, the majority of Geoff Downes' rig could be handled by MainStage and a Kronos. And a Nord Lead. Going a bit OT, but did you all see the hand which is coming from back stage altering the settings of the Prophet on that picture! Rudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 CowboyNQ: Yeah, I can get as close up front as I wish. Typically stage right. Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyNQ Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I reckon that could be the go, with a sit-stand "L". Either with your apex pointing at the heaving masses like an arrow as suggested by Tim and David, or alternatively your "sitting" 'board forward, and the rest pointing back across the stage to your left. Whatever you decide, have a great show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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