Roland System-8

[EscapeRocks]

My Arturia Keylab61, with full sized keys and aftertouch, controlling Arturia JP8ver3, is just fine

[Devnor]

Scott Tibbs apparently doesn't have issues playing that keybed.

 

S8 sounds great, supports multiple plug outs, has performance mode and tons of real time controls for an affordable price. Take my money!

[Marzzz]

What Roland should really be doing:

 

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[video:youtube]

[AnotherScott]

Ok, I think we all remember a few generations back and can see the evolving business plans here...

 

Remember when Roland hardware came with an internal soundset and they left room to add samples via expansion ROMs... JV cards and SRX cards? And then memory got cheap and then they backed away from this scheme and loaded up the FA-08/06 and Jupiter-80/50 with tons of stuff, no need for expansion cards?

Nah. The Jupiter 80/50 have relatively few sounds in them, and none of the SRX sounds; they were all about the SuperNatural modeling. The FA 08/06 have mostly the same sounds as the 15+ year old XV-5080, plus a subset of the newer SuperNatural sounds. However, you can load 2 cards' worth of SRX sounds in for free via download instead of purchasing pricey ROM cards.

 

Now Yamaha was doing similar at the time with PLG-150 boards. Although when you bought a AN, DX or VL board you were getting additional processing power that ran additional synthesis engines as opposed to a ROM - they also had their own polyphony. Then came the Motif XS, XF and Montage lines that were packed with sounds on ROM or most recently flash memory. And while they opened their keyboards up to additional samples via additional samples, user samples, third party samples - they also backed away from offering actual synthesis engines (the Montage breaking that pattern with an 8 operator DX engine included).

Yamaha was pretty creative in offering the additional AN/DX/VL engines as optional supplements to the sampling engine. When they went to the Motif XS, they went to sampling-only. No more VA, FM, or modeled sounds, only sampled approximations.

 

All of the above were available in various sizes, user choice of action, better or less build quality/weight/price - we had some choices.

 

Ok, so here we are at the end of 2016. Roland has priced this System-8 at $1499 in one size fits all (no choice in action), hardware capable of a paltry 8 note poly

It's a whole different kind of board, it's VA. There are not many VAs (nor actual analog synths for that matter) that have ever been offered in "various sizes, user choice of action, better or less build quality/weight/price." If you're lucky, you get a keyboard version and a rack/tabletop version.

[DulceLabs.com]

On the various forums and FB Groups, most people seem to be waiting to see how the DM12 pans out. Seems smart.

[Bill H.]

Since neither is available yet, we'll have to wait to see how they both pan out. I'm keeping an open mind, but for Roland to be in this conversation they're going to have to really do it this time - recreate the sound of an analog synth in the digital realm with 100% accuracy. Anything less, and the System 8 is going to lose out to the DM12.

[AnotherScott]

Since neither is available yet, we'll have to wait to see how they both pan out. I'm keeping an open mind, but for Roland to be in this conversation they're going to have to really do it this time - recreate the sound of an analog synth in the digital realm with 100% accuracy. Anything less, and the System 8 is going to lose out to the DM12.

It's also interesting to consider the contrast between an analog synth that sounds like a Juno 106 vs. a virtual analog that ostensibly will sound an awful lot like your choice of a Juno 106 or a Jupiter 8 (or...)

[RABid]

I think the real story will come after two or three years when we start to find out how reliable the DM is.

[brenner13]

This is the first "plug-out" to peak my interest but OH the compromises. Stating the obvious here: loads of knobs and sliders with a very fine V/A engine capable of emulating iconic lustful synths of yesteryear, but paired to a toy-like keybed of only 49 levers and NO aftertouch. 'Wonder if it can respond to MIDI AT?

 

Perhaps a large rack-mountable desktop version might drop in a year or perhaps in time for winter NAMM?

[CEB]

Nord Lead.

[CEB]

[video:youtube]

 

Nick gets his hands on one.

 

 

Kosmic walking through stuff.

 

[video:youtube]

[SteeVtheRipper]

I'm interested in following the ACB modeling down the road it's on for the next few years. I remember watching a comparison video of the Jupiter 8/ JP08 that Nickndis and they sounded strikingly similar. No two Jupiters sound alike I bet in a blind test a lot of people might have mixed them up or thought they were both analog. Personally I think Roland's current crop of synths are really hideous and I wouldn't want one for myself. But I do give them kudos for the plug out concept and how far their modeling has come. I'm sure a lot of people, myself included are asking, "why won't Roland in the midst of the analog revival give us analog? The timing couldn't be better!" I'm sure they're aware of that, maybe they believe in what they're doing and maybe they want to push through those barriers and show a digital can sound just as good as an analog. Maybe not right now but soon. If they can truly bridge the gap so well that it's undeniable, that would be quite the achievement. There would still be naysayers and I think the charm of analog would still warm a lot of hearts.

[AnotherScott]

I'm sure a lot of people, myself included are asking, "why won't Roland in the midst of the analog revival give us analog?

JD-XA and JD-XI

[WillNeverPost]

I'm sure a lot of people, myself included are asking, "why won't Roland in the midst of the analog revival give us analog?

JD-XA and JD-XI

But of course the question is code for "Damn it, Roland, why aren't you giving us a Jupiter 8 re-issue or a modern re-do, with VCOs and everything?"

[CEB]

Nick's 2nd look

 

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[AnotherScott]

The Minimoog reissue is $3500. The Jupiter 8 cost more than twice what a Minimoog cost. I'm not sure how much market there would be for an authentic Jupiter 8 reissue if it were to be priced accordingly...

[Bill H.]

I'm interested in following the ACB modeling down the road it's on for the next few years. I remember watching a comparison video of the Jupiter 8/ JP08 that Nickndis and they sounded strikingly similar.

 

Is the Roland Boutique series developed by the same team that develops the AIRA products?

 

Tojo:No, these are two different teams. At Roland, we form development teams on a per-product basis, so this team came together exclusively for the Roland Boutique series. That said, we did get some help from AIRA developers on ACB.

 

A snip from this article. It's quite possible that the Aria model of a Jupiter 8 will be subtly different than the Boutique model.

 

Now if the Aria model nails it... game over.

[DulceLabs.com]

Roland's ACB is pretty spot-on. I really had no interest in the Boutiques but I won a JU-06 early in the year so of course I took it.

 

I have to say it sounds really good. I've been A/Bing sounds with my Minilogue --- The JU-06 stacks up in terms of analog warmth and "roundness" of sounds.

 

That being said, I think it is a bit overpriced compared to what else you can get in VA & real analog from other manufactures. Doesn't seem to bother people though - they sell really well.

[burningbusch]

I don't know if I'm completely sold on ACB. Seems the original TR-909 sounds best in this compare.

 

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Busch.

[ElmerJFudd]

I've always wanted the V-Synth XT. I think it's one of the coolest things Roland ever did as far as digitals - the VC cards... the VC-1 in particular, but that's just because I have a thing for the D-50. Anyway, point being... the thing came out in 2005 and offers multiple oscillator technologies, user sampling and COSM filtering - 24 voice poly, lower for heavy stuff and if you're using a rhythm part. Tough to get stoked about a few plugouts on hardware that does 8 note poly, less obviously with layers.

[AnotherScott]

IIRC, the V-synths were noticeably more expensive. But also, the instruments are entirely different in what they're trying to do and in the underlying technologies. If you want something that sounds like a Jupiter 8 (or other true analog), presumably, the System 8 will get you a lot closer than the V-synth. I mean, you could say a $3500 Minimoog makes no sense when you can get a Sub 37 for less than half the price, with 2-note polyphony, sequencer/arpeggiator, storable presets. But it's a different instrument with different sound, different interface, different feel, different design goals. Until you get your hands and ears around these things and see how they fit into your workflow and what they sound like, I think it's premature to be critical.

[Mark Schmieder]

Rats -- from the first photos I thought it was a full-sized keybed. There are definite improvements, but without full-sized keys and aftertouch, I'll be waiting again... to see what comes next.

 

I bought a used System-1 early this year and sold it a week later. I love the sound, but hate the ergonomics and the lack of proper software integration from the controller point of view (could never get that aspect to work, defeating the purpose of having a PLUG-OUT vs. simply buying the software-only versions).

 

The biggest flaws were the VERY hard landing of the "push-button" style keys 9and how tiny they were), and lack of aftertouch (I think maybe not velocity-sensitive either, but I forget at this point). Flakey as hell on Macs, for sure, as an entire weekend of trial and error failed to produce proper controller syncing of the hardware with the PLUG-OUT AU versions when inside a DAW host. Maybe it simply isn't supported.

 

I guess I'll wait to see if the Jupiter and JX-3P plus Juno get offered as software-only PLUG-OUTS later on.

 

And maybe the early reports about the keybed and its functionality are not complete.

 

Just back from my first vacation in 3-1/2 years so haven't had a chance yet to check Roland's site or other related forum discussions (if they exist). Hopefully there's better news on this product than what people are saying here.

[GovernorSilver]

Alternative color mockup by someone.. I like this color scheme better than the release version.

 

 

Regarding the earlier post, I'm more interested the usability and battery power of the new portable units than accuracy of "vintage" sound reproduction - seems to sound decent enough.

[J. Dan]

I just don't like the UI at all. Seems like it was designed more to look flashy than to be functional. It's not horrible., I just don't like it. As I was watching videos, it seemed like some of the controls were pretty glitchy - either overly sensitive or just jumpy. I think some of them would be better as sliders than knobs, and some others better as switches. Also seems like a lot of Inc/Dec on the menu...maybe could benefit from a data entry dial or numeric pad? I don't like the Bank/Program buttons all in a row and being the same look/color...seems at a gig it'd be hard to jump to the right bank and program. I understand they did it to server double duty as the step sequencer, but I think even just making them a different color would help.

[NYKeys]

This is a tasty demo

 

[video:youtube]

[Bill H.]

Now that these are generally available, maybe it's time to bump the thread. I played one briefly at the GC next to Costco in Clackamas this afternoon. I didn't have much time, but I really wanted to check two things primarily.

 

First the good news. It appears that Roland has finally solved the aliasing issue in their VAs. I pulled up a saw at the highest foot setting, zeroed out all effects, opened up the filter and the amp ADSR (all very easy to do with this interface) and noodled around the top octave while occasionally applying a very heavy sine wave LFO vibrato. This is the sort of thing that would drive my V-Synth nuts. On the System-8 it was about as clean as you could expect, with maybe just a hint of IM distortion (which could well have been the monitor on a torture test like this).

 

Now for the bad news: Wow that keybed It felt just like a four octave version of the one on the FA-06 next to it. If you're good with that, it'll work for you. As for me, it's borderline unplayable - and a deal breaker at this stage in my life. I'm just getting too old to be fighting a bad action anymore.

[RedKey]

Now for the bad news: Wow that keybed It felt just like a four octave version of the one on the FA-06 next to it. If you're good with that, it'll work for you. As for me, it's borderline unplayable - and a deal breaker.

 

That perspective amazes me... and I'm not doubting your opinion...

 

I just picked up a system-8 and one of the first things I noticed was that they did NOT use that horrible FA-06 bed. It feels and plays beautifully IMHO. No aftertouch, which does affect the touch somewhat, but soooooo much better than the crap Roland & Korg have been putting out in their budget synths recently.

 

weird...

[Bill H.]

The problems I had were things like riffing in keys like Bb and Eb... getting anything close to even velocity responses. Sometimes the black keys weren't even triggering at all. The FA-06 next to it was doing the same thing.

[Mark Schmieder]

I had kind of forgotten about this product, as I had falsely assumed it was a big brother to System-1 and therefore shared its DNA.

 

Just now though, I checked the Roland site for VI's (a VERY difficult task, as you have to make a lot of guesswork, and even then, it is hard to be confident one has found all available PLUG-OUT products that can run in a pure software environment without one of their hardware instruments connected), and the Juno and Jupiter are not listed.

 

What I noticed instead is that the System-8 is ACB based, which someone did specify in the first post, but I forgot that System-1 was AIRA based.

 

So now I'm thoroughly confused, as System-8 will ship with ACB PLUG-OUTS, but the old PLUG-OUTS will be modified to work with System-8.

 

https://www.roland.com/global/products/system-8/

 

So does this mean that ACB actually derives from AIRA and is a newer generation? I thought we had found out earlier that they are two different development teams at Roland, with little (if any) crossover even though much of the intent is the same?

 

Given this confusion, I am now afraid to spend money on ProMars etc. in case they become abandonware like almost everything Roland has ever made.

[ProfD]

Well, I have test driven the Roland System 8 a couple times.

 

The reviews here are correct. The limited polyphony and lack of aftertouch make no sense.

 

Personally, the newer style keybed does not compare to that of my DX7IID. The low end thump is not quite the same as my Moog Sub 37.

 

These things alone should disqualify the System 8 from my consideration. Yet, I still found it to be a fun synth to play.

 

It was easy to program my bass sounds on the System 8. I could easy dial up some of the comp sounds (clav and saw pad) that I get from DX. Of course, I cannot get the metallic goodness of FM from it.

 

But, the fact that I could split and layer the System 8 and it sounds good enough to consolidate the Sub 37 and DX sparked my minimalism.

 

Right now, I'm on the fence about picking up a System 8. I think out-of-the-box I could make it work along with my SV-1.

 

Roland, if you're listening...come up with a Super JX plug-out and I'll jump onboard.