CEB Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Probably not that bad. But way wetter than I would use live. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 So now that the Montage is out, the GC near me is blowing out a lot of Yamaha stuff such as the S90XS. I was surprised how much I liked the Full Concert Grand in the S90XS. It sounded less plunky in the mid range than the MOXF8. So there really could be a difference in these Motif based sets, which I have been unclear about. Iv'e been trying to find the best Yamaha CF based sample ( ala CP 40 thread). Perhaps the Motif XS module might provide that- which I assume would be similar to the S90XS. But no, 4 grand and eighty pounds is not going to work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmymio Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 So now that the Montage is out, the GC near me is blowing out a lot of Yamaha stuff such as the S90XS. That's odd because the GC website is still selling the 90xs for $2399. Not what I'd consider a blowout on a KB that is over 7 years old. 1935 Mason & Hamlin Model A Korg Kronos 2 73 Nord Electro 6D 61 Yam S90ES Rhodes Stage 73 (1972) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulceLabs.com Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I won't even consider the Montage at that size and weight. The 61 is only 33 pounds, but it is huge. I'm wondering how many of these are purchased for home/studio use only. Size and weight aside, I know I wouldn't gig with a $3,000-$4,000 keyboard. I know plenty of people do but I am way too cautious cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Bad Mister on the Super Knob's superness at YamahaSynth.com Part 1 Part 2 The 63 lbs doesn't play much into home studio, pro studio, or backline sales. But yeah, it's not easy to get a quality action down in weight. If it was Kawai and Yamaha would have done it already. The 38.5lbs on the CP-4 was quite the surprise. What's the action mounted to on CP-4 if not particle board? Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 It's not that heavy. It's big and better distributed. The Kronos is worse depending on your case. What's another 3-4 pounds. I'm a weakly old man I can do it. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I'm a weakly old man I can do it. GRONK can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 LOL "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjzingo Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Just bought the 61 key montage, fits like a glove in my old motif 6 hardcase:-) It sounds beutiful/very musical and the keys are great. Intend to take it out gigging in a couple of weeks when I made up some good programs. Actually good to get some decent keys to play the lead 4, phatty, mopho....again. hmmm, what else would I bring. Nord stage or just an electro.....or perhaps arhodes and electro.....hmm perhaps selling off the lead 4 or not... options, options..... /Fred Cantaloop Soulfetch Soulbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Just bought the 61 key montage[...]hmmm, what else would I bring. Nord stage or just an electro.....or perhaps arhodes and electro.....hmm perhaps selling off the lead 4 or not... options, options..... It's a tough one. As usual, one tends to need two actions (hammer-action and waterfall/unweighted) and access to perhaps four main sound "engines" (pianos, clonewheel, rompler, VA). Your unweighted Montage would satisfy the second action and piano/rompler/VA (FM) engines. So to complete the set you need an hammer-action clonewheel underneath! This is why the Montage range doesn't quite make sense to me for live playing. The 88 is too heavy as a downstairs board (under a clonewheel), and the 61 doesn't have a clonewheel engine to sit over a stage piano, or the MIDI grunt to straddle a dumb controller. Cheers, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatoboy Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Played the 88 a number of time at GC here on LI. Nice board but really overkill for me.... the AC pianos are great as usual and the action....everything else also. Just not what I need right now! Rather have a CP4 or it's replacement when them come out! CP-50, YC 73, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Dave I think Tucktronix and I felt the same way when we played it. I think there has been so many workstations since we started playing or romplers that the bar continues to go up, maybe too high for the manufacturers? I kind of feel that way about Hammond clones. 12 years ago if I heard the Mojo I may have been floored but now it's just another clone that sounds a little better than the previous generation. I think it hit me a few months ago in May when Tom Petro and I did a buss bar lube and replaced the downstop felts on a 1958 B3. Once I played it through a 122 and 122 RV it hit me there is no way a clone could reproduce that experience. not to derail this thread but see my comments regarding VB3-II towards the bottom of the thread below. Not too far off from your XK1c vs Mojo review. https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2785594/2/GSI_Gemini_Desktop_Rack 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 OK I remember that thread. You would also know as you can compare it to the real thing. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 My initial plan was to get a 6 and put it on top of a hammer action 88 controller. Really glad I did not go that way. I'm surprised that Yamaha did not follow Korg's lead and make the 7 hammer action but it is not an issue for me. I know it is sacrilege to many here, but I don't mind playing piano parts on the Montage 7 non-hammer action keyboard. It is a nice feeling keyboard. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I finally played a Montage 8 at Sweetwater, this past June, and found it to be highly playable and expressive - especially the acoustic pianos. Almost all the sound categories are stellar, and the new FM-X engine is gorgeous. If I always rigged with two keyboards, it would be a great bottom tier stage 88 - a solid compliment to my SK-1, or Kronos 61 (a tempting, almost-insane synth combination). But a couple of things make me hesitate. Depsite the fact that I'm used to schlepping heavy/bulky gear, the 64 lb. Montage 8 makes me pause - especially when I consider what the total package - in a proper road case - would weigh. I live in that in-between world where I sometimes play stages with stairs for load-in, but don't have roadies.. Also, the lack of a dedicated tone-wheel section is concern - especially when needing the instrument as a one-keyboard live solution. Granted, the quality of sound / fx and extra memory makes the sample-based organs quite good for what they are, but I'd still miss the clone engine - which my Forte 7 covers very well. Just wish I could get that clear, open Yamaha piano 'vibe' in the Forte. Have gotten used to that tone, live, being a long-time Yamaha DP user on stage.. Finally, the Montage user interface was very well thought out. I was able to get around the instrument easily - from surface edits to deeper dives. A big thumbs up to Yamaha for creating a basic osc-lfo-filter-adsr editing scheme that works from the top down - Performance level all the way down to individual elements. Haven't seen that type of executive command setup on any other hardware instrument. Wish my Kronos could be edited like that at Combi level; the Forte as well. 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Did Yamaha make any effort at all in organ patches for the Montage? I mean if organ is just another timbre you call up to cover this or that from time to time and presets will get the job done because you're not manipulating much in real time but maybe fast, slow, break of the Leslie, change patch when you need a different drawbar setting ? It's a very capable synth, I would imagine a third party patch house could put together some pretty decent organs by any number of means, including making use of user sample memory. Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Motif organs are fine. Hammond heads don't usnderstand how you use Motif organs because they are focused on grandpa keyboard music. Motif organs work better in complex layers. I like them better than Kronos CX-3 programs also. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Would be awesome for you to elaborate on that in dedicated thread sometime, CEB. Some tips and tricks on getting the organ job done with Yamaha. KSounds did some nice organ patches for the Motifs. Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjzingo Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 It's a tough one. As usual, one tends to need two actions (hammer-action and waterfall/unweighted) and access to perhaps four main sound "engines" (pianos, clonewheel, rompler, VA). Your unweighted Montage would satisfy the second action and piano/rompler/VA (FM) engines. So to complete the set you need an hammer-action clonewheel underneath! . Nord Stage comes to mind! Actually not a bad idea to control the stage clonewheel from the montage. Thanks, One Montage to control the Stage.... /Fred Cantaloop Soulfetch Soulbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Motif organs are fine. Hammond heads don't usnderstand how you use Motif organs because they are focused on grandpa keyboard music. Motif organs work better in complex layers. I also found that the Motif organs worked fine in many classic rock and current country songs, especially ones where piano and ep are more prominent, and organ is secondary. In 2015 I did some one-keyboard gigs with my S90XS, on which organ was split off to the bottom one to two octaves. Works great for LH, open-voice sustained comping - while covering the meatier piano parts RH. Where the Motif organs can 'thin-out' is on songs where the tonewheel sound is signature, front and center. Even then, I've heard far worse than the Motif organs. 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Motif organs are fine.... Motif organs work better in complex layers. +1 I've had similar success with the Motif performance mode when it comes to organs... and just about everything else for that matter. I like rich, fat sounds onstage. But yeah, it ain't gonna match a dedicated clonewheel. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Would be awesome for you to elaborate on that in dedicated thread sometime, CEB. Some tips and tricks on getting the organ job done with Yamaha. KSounds did some nice organ patches for the Motifs. It would be of no use to 90-95% of the people that bitch about Yamaha organs. Hammond is not necessarily the end all be all organ tone. What makes the CX-3 on the Kronos such a pain is that they cooked all the amp simulation into programs. The Kronos with all those EXi and the HD-1 engines lets you do some cool modern sounds where a sinewave based organy sounds can really glue together some nice pads. The CX-3 amp noise dirties the audio and hurts the organ programs as a tonal building block. So you need to strip all that out. It is no big deal but at the end of the process I still like the Motif organs better. Sometimes on the Kronos my stuff is too sterile and I end up using preamps or bit crushers (decimator). I have OCD and drive myself crazy just to have some dude runnning the front desk make this an exercise in futility. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Bit OT: I have an amazing organ in my old Triton. I've been tweaking it over the years and it really cuts through in the upper range and can shake the subs as well. It's less of a Hammond--more of a "church organ" sound--but perfect for our worship band. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 One Montage to control the Stage.... Tolkien fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRW Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I also played one at a store a while back. Once again, it looks and feels like a top quality product - almost luxurious - but it didn't "grab" me like I hoped it would. Am I the only one who isn't impressed by the EP's (the much-hyped "EP Gallery" patch mainly)? I thought they sounded bland and fake when Yammy played them in demos, and that opinion didn't change playing them in person. It's a bit surprising since the EP's are so gorgeously "vintage" and authentic on the CP1/4/5 and Reface CP. Leaving out the Pattern Mode sequencer is also a dumb move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aronnelson Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 One thing I didn't like about the Montage. But this applies to a number of other keyboards too. Stupid sequencers/arps that start when you choose a program. I pressed an organ sound and I didn't realize that if you hit a certain note the sequencer/arp starts!!!! yeah right in the middle of the song!!!!! I did like the new EP sounds, but they were modern sounding, not vintage to me. Korg Kronos, Roland RD-88, Korg Kross, JP8000, MS2000, Sequential Pro One, Micromoog, Yamaha VL1, author of unrealBook for iPad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DulceLabs.com Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I checked one out briefly a couple weeks ago. My reaction: "This seems like a very fine rompler... *Yawn*..." Yes, but it's also a "real" synth with the FM-X section. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 One thing I didn't like about the Montage. But this applies to a number of other keyboards too. Stupid sequencers/arps that start when you choose a program. I pressed an organ sound and I didn't realize that if you hit a certain note the sequencer/arp starts!!!! yeah right in the middle of the song!!!!! I did like the new EP sounds, but they were modern sounding, not vintage to me. Oh my, that's a snaffoo. The story also has a bit of a geezer edge to it! LOL That shocked look on your face when you're dealing with tech you don't know your way around on and something goes kablooie! Dag nabbit! These new fangled performance synths! Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurMan Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 ... Stupid sequencers/arps that start when you choose a program. I pressed an organ sound and I didn't realize that if you hit a certain note the sequencer/arp starts!!!! yeah right in the middle of the song!!!!! As the keyboards get smarter and have more features, disasters like this are common. Fortunately, mine happen in rehearsal. Why can't all manufacturers provide notes for these complex performances/combis/etc ??? Not only can these setups have trip-wire landmines, they can also have very cool, non-obvious features that can be turned on/off. Would you want to drive a car with buttons that perform undocumented driving maneuvers? As it stands now, we have to literally reverse-engineer nearly every setup before we can safely use it. Casio PX-5S, Korg Kronos 61, Omnisphere 2, Ableton Live, LaunchKey 25, 2M cables Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Since switching to Korg I build all my Setups/Combis from scratch. I've had some incidents with the S90XS though. It is evil. Looks like the synth I want to add to the mix is a potential minefield. [video:youtube] "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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