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QSC too hot?


StanC

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Some of the thread on the use of a mixer touched on this subject and prompted me to pose the question: The FOH has been complaining that the signal I am sending from the line out of the QSC K12 is way too hot. At the last gig my guy thought the next time we would try a 2 d-boxes from each board before the K12. (Not sure how that will work?)

 

So that aside, are there any other suggestions on a solution?

Stan

Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1

Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX

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First, is it possible mr. FOH doesn't know that what's coming from your QSC is not mic level? XLR connections going into a board are typically mic level, although I would think most boards have a trim control or pad on each channel. Should we assume that the FOH person has padded & trimmed as much as possible?

 

Next question is which output are you using on the QSC? They have two - a "direct" out (on each channel) which simply passes the input signal unchanged, and the "mix" out which could potentially be hotter since it's post-gain control. If your level setting is past 12 o'clock (0 db) then the signal going to the mix out will be amplified.

 

If you're using the mix out, I would probably go with the direct box idea before trying the direct outs on the QSC. There is no buffering on those, it's simply a pass-through connection. A d-box is safer. I have a cheap (~$40) Samson stereo direct box that works fine.

 

BTW I often connect my QSCs to FOH directly from the speakers and have never had an issue once I make 200% certain there is no phantom power on the connection! This is key. You can easily damage your speaker if you're not careful about this. And yea, I once had a sound guy tell me he was positive there was no phantom on the channel I was plugged into. I didn't trust him, checked out his board and the phantom switch was set ON.

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I always use a DI box first from my keyboard, but I only play one board live. Some more info on your rig could be helpful

 

- how many keyboards?

- mono or stereo?

- are you routing them all into your mixer

- Are you taking the main out from mixer to your QSC - if so are you adding gain to your signal there?

- Does your mixer have separate monitor vs main outputs with separate level control?

The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
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First, is it possible mr. FOH doesn't know that what's coming from your QSC is not mic level? XLR connections going into a board are typically mic level, although I would think most boards have a trim control or pad on each channel. Should we assume that the FOH person has padded & trimmed as much as possible?

 

Next question is which output are you using on the QSC? They have two - a "direct" out (on each channel) which simply passes the input signal unchanged, and the "mix" out which could potentially be hotter since it's post-gain control. If your level setting is past 12 o'clock (0 db) then the signal going to the mix out will be amplified.

 

If you're using the mix out, I would probably go with the direct box idea before trying the direct outs on the QSC. There is no buffering on those, it's simply a pass-through connection. A d-box is safer. I have a cheap (~$40) Samson stereo direct box that works fine.

 

BTW I often connect my QSCs to FOH directly from the speakers and have never had an issue once I make 200% certain there is no phantom power on the connection! This is key. You can easily damage your speaker if you're not careful about this. And yea, I once had a sound guy tell me he was positive there was no phantom on the channel I was plugged into. I didn't trust him, checked out his board and the phantom switch was set ON.

 

Not sure about the trim control. All that is said is "I gotta turn you almost all the way down and you're still red-lining"

The output I am using is the "Line Out" for both channels. If that is amplified as you said, then maybe the answer may be to use the direct outputs? Maybe a d-box wouldn't be needed? I guess there'll be a bit of experimenting in my future!

Thanks for your input!

Stan

Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1

Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX

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I always use a DI box first from my keyboard, but I only play one board live. Some more info on your rig could be helpful

 

- how many keyboards?

- mono or stereo?

- are you routing them all into your mixer

- Are you taking the main out from mixer to your QSC - if so are you adding gain to your signal there?

- Does your mixer have separate monitor vs main outputs with separate level control?

 

I use 2 boards in mono. One in Channel A and one in B. No mixer. Signal is from the Line out for both channels of the QSC.

Stan

Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1

Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX

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Personally, I usually opt for the DI option. The way this works (since you seemed unsure) is that you will run the outputs of your keyboard(s) to the input on the DI(s). The XLR outputs of the DI(s) will go to FOH, and your engineer will have full control of your level in the house. This will make he/she happy, and frankly is the best way to do it if you have a competent sound engineer. The "Thru" outputs on your DI(s) will then go to your QSC for your monitoring purposes, and you can control the level of the QSC without it affecting FOH level.
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I always use a DI box first from my keyboard, but I only play one board live. Some more info on your rig could be helpful

 

- how many keyboards?

- mono or stereo?

- are you routing them all into your mixer

- Are you taking the main out from mixer to your QSC - if so are you adding gain to your signal there?

- Does your mixer have separate monitor vs main outputs with separate level control?

 

I use 2 boards in mono. One in Channel A and one in B. No mixer. Signal is from the Line out for both channels of the QSC.

 

I agree with Ross - in that setup you could use a single stereo DI-box, one mono signal in the Left, one mono signal in the Right. Tell the FOH guy to not pan them left and right but center both as they are two different boards/signals.

 

I use a Radial Pro-D2 DI and I always go from my board first to the D2. Then FOH connect XLRs to the D2 output connectors and I run 1/4" TS from the thru connector to my monitor (if I bring a stage monitor). If its a piano heavy set I'll run stereo TS from my board to the D2 and ask FOH to pan them L/R, if its all synth I may just run a single summed out to one of the two channels. it works fine using one or both channels.

 

i don't see a reason you can't run your two mono signals into a single Pro-D2 "stereo" DI instead of getting two mono DIs. there's no magic about L/R designations on the D2, it will run whatever signals it gets thru. just tell FOH not to pan either line as they are different mono board lines. (someone correct me if this is wrong)

 

a DI in your signal chain also will provide isolation lift in the rare case there's noise in the house system and it will protect your QSC from the random house guy that sends phantom power into his XLR cable.

The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
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i don't see a reason you can't run your two mono signals into a single Pro-D2 "stereo" DI instead of getting two mono DIs. there's no magic about L/R designations on the D2, it will run whatever signals it gets thru. just tell FOH not to pan either line as they are different mono board lines. (someone correct me if this is wrong)

 

You're not wrong.

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Thanks guys for all the advice! Beginning to sound like the simplest straight forward solution is a stereo DI!

 

 

Stan

Gig Rig: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond SK-1; Rehearsal: Yamaha MOX8 Korg Triton Le61, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-1

Retired: Hammond M2/Leslie 145, Wurly 200, Ensoniq VFX

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Easiest way is like Rusty Mike says but apparently that's not working in your case. Maybe have a conversation with your sound guy. Like I said, I do this with no issues as long as there's no phantom power on the line.

 

You haven't clarified exactly which output you use you say "line out" but the QSC has direct outs from each channel and a single mix out which is both channels combined. I'll guess it's the latter. As I said the mix output will be hotter if your levels are past 12 o'clock. But, I think it would take a very hot source signal to overload any decent board with a pad and/or trim control, and I can't see a typical keyboard putting enough level to drive the further stages that hot. They're usually -10 line level devices.

 

You could try using the direct outs but of course you'll need to run two lines to the board instead of one (and obviously use two channels). And like I said before, they are direct pass-throughs of the two inputs - no buffering or isolation at all. But it shouldn't hurt to try as long as phantom power is off of course.

 

 

 

 

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