Lennie Tristano method

[Frenchy06]

Hey guys,

 

I read very little on the forum about Lennie's method/approach:

Scales with crazy fingerings (1-2, 4-5, 4-5-3-4-5, etc)

200+ voicings left hand

70+ voicings hands together

Step by step approach to playing standards

Aural transcribing of solos

 

Anyone familiar with this? It is very thorough in covering the basis obviously but I am very curious to see if people who tried it felt that it brought them to the next level.

 

Cheers!

[cedar]

Like many others in the NY area, I took lessons from a Lenny disciple named Sal Mosca.

 

Sal's methods - which were at least influenced by Lenny if not direct copies of Lenny's methods - were very exacting.

 

I began with Sal when I was a high school senior, after I had already been immersed in bop and playing for years in jazz bands. When I first met and played for Sal, he basically told me that there was too much going to decipher where I was at. His stated goal was to make me truly play like myself, rather than just be a faint copy of others.

 

He never taught be crazy fingering, but this is how he taught improvisation to all of his students, regardless apparently of how advanced they were. We picked a couple of standards, like "these foolish things." To begin with, he instructed me to improvise by playing nothing but whole notes. After a while, I was permitted to use half notes, then quarter notes. Then eight notes, rests, etc. One major purpose was to uncover and eliminate unknown tendencies. For example, if he noticed that I routinely started a phrase on the second beat, he'd point it out and force me to use more variety.

 

He also was big on learning solos by Lester Young, with the Basie band. I think he had me sing some of the solos back to him. That was a valuable experience.

 

Sal was brilliant, I thought. He was absolutely correct that, at that time, I had not really developed my own voice. But I did not have the patience for his approach and only lasted a few months with him. Perhaps if I had started at an earlier age with him or stuck it out, I would have taken to his approach more.

 

To give you an idea of his standards, I recall vividly discussing Tommy Flanagan, one of my favorites then. Sal told me that he liked Tommy, but thought he needed to practice more.

 

Lenny, Sal and other Lenny disciples have a rep of being very intellectual.

[Legatoboy]

My Teacher Larry Bluth studied with Sal for 23 years and I basically had the same/similar training to Cedar's.

...going on 25 years now on and off.

 

Lennie/Sal were monsters of a modern improvised 'line', the Term 'LINE' my friend just told me Lennie coined for music in the late 40's-50's as mentioned by Phil Shapp (sp) last week on WKCR's radio program. I didn't know that myself! Part of the reason Lenny Bernstein would visit his small Flushing Queens apartment once a week for a good stretch there and Steve Vai and Satriani and many many others also studied with him were his ideas and approaches and just what he did and his intensity...the alternate fingering has multiple purposes....each finger has it's own sound, if you limit your fingering in a 'line' beside the fact that you give each note the sound of that finger when used in the groupings of just 1-2 or 4-5 you learn how to be more creative with just a few notes . . .think the Bonsai Tree approach. You'd be surprised at what comes out when you don't have your bag of tricks to rely on constantly! Get's you away from yourself and your ego's bags of tricks....that helps get your creatives juices going without including your compulsiveness. . .

 

Also Lennie built a body of work called the 'Formations', his main body of work that he left to the world of Jazz/Music...a Chord series based on Jazz era solo line intervals included in standard chords with those alterations all taken as a body of work! There are chord rows for each inversion on Major7, Major6, Tonic Minor, Dom7 ... etc....all the standard chords...

 

Lennie's approach to learning was less formulaic than a lot of other approaches...learn through experiencing things not necessarily as an intellectual concept, it is intellectual in it's non-intellectualization of the music actually to add to Cedar's comment! No FN thinking! Psychologically advanced. Lennie was very into Wilheim Reich's ideas and therapy as many artists (musicians/painters/poets) in NYC were in the 20'-40' though he's originally from Chicago - Reich coined the phrase 'Blocked' as in 'Writer's Block' - same for musicians because We get blocked too! Lennie's brother was a Reichian therapist! Reich wrote the de-facto analysis on how the Nazi's got the German people to go along with Nazi ideas! Why they instilled 'Blocks' . . .hate mixed with doses of sexual repression! Why It's just that Easy Shoppers! Not to mention $, what was the German Mark worth in the 20's-30's , remember the wheel-barrels of German bills for a loaf of bread!

 

The Mass Psychology of Facism . . . " explains their rise as a symptom of sexual repression."

 

"The question at the heart of Reich's book was this: why did the masses turn to authoritarianism even though it is clearly against their interests?"

 

Lennie was heavily influenced by Bud Powell, Lennie having done a 2 month stint opposite him at a Solo piano gig at a club in the late 40's. Bud on - Lennie off, Lennie on - Bud off. Lennie was forever changed by being exposed to Bud's intensity supposedly! I believe Sal studied with Lennie for 9 years. Both heavily influenced by Bird and Lester Young not to mention Bud in terms of an improvised 'line'! It all comes from sax/horn! A 'Blowing' chorus!

 

Warne Marsh the great tenor sax player from LA was considered the supreme improvisor of the whole crew believe it or not, Lennie even said that.Warne studied with Lennie I believe..Lennie and Sal both used Warne and Lee Konitz (alto) also .....Lee recently recorded a CD with Brad Mehldau BTW ..Warne collaborated often with Claire Fischer (sp)(pianist/arranger) on the west coast also! Warne stayed in NYC for a stretch studying with Lennie and gigging on the east coast!

 

Lennie passed in 1979, Warne later in the 70's or 80's...Sal about 6-7 years ago! Lee Konitz, Connie Crothers (piano) are both still alive and active!

[16251]

I studied the Lennie's method with Harvey Diamond. I was much younger at the time and this thread reminds me to re-explore the finger and voicing exercises I have.

 

Harvey is from Massachusetts but saw recently that he played at Mezzrow. Check him out, he's a wonderful player. He was also a great teacher. At the time I was on Charlie Banacos waiting list, so I stopped once that happened.

 

The Lennie method is quite a different approach than all other teachers I studied with.

[Outkaster]

Good stuff....interesting.

[Legatoboy]

 

[video:youtube]

[Legatoboy]

[16251]

 

[video:youtube]

 

Thanks for reminding me to check out more of his videos. Love Harvey. He's a very kind soul. I actually need some of his energy and will search him out for a lesson soon I hope.

[16251]

BTW - For anyone interested in Lennie then you need to check out Dave Frank who is another of his disciples.

[Legatoboy]

I need Larry Bluth's energy too '16251' and often, I know! It really keeps me straight, there is so much stuff out there that can take you away from your more musical self . . . especially for people our age and younger who have a foot in other modern music but old enough to have or are interested in Jazz . . . .

 

Jazz is the mother of all the other modern forms for the most part anyway!

[Dave Ferris]

 

[video:youtube]

 

Stop hittin' the woodblock on 2 & 4 during my solo already ! jeez that's obnoxious.

 

I haven't really studied much of the Tristano School. It did always seem a little intellectual for my taste and just swung with different kind of feeling or energy that really didn't appeal to me, to be honest.

 

I like what I like, no apologies. But always good to see a discussion on jazz here.

 

I would have liked to have been able to take some lessons with the esteemed and legendary Charlie Banacos though.

[Frenchy06]

Thank you for your feedback and first hand experiences and stories and great links too! Lennie's music is definitely on a more intellectual side but I still think it is to better serve the interior music and "feelings" and not just to explore and experiment.

[Al Quinn]

I took lessons from one of Lennie's disciples (who will remain nameless) around '79. Although I only took a few lessons, I was exposed to a lot of left hand voicings and some alternate fingerings. I stopped after taking just a few lessons because most of left hand voicings didn't sound good to me and I was turned off by disparaging comments my teacher made about jazz pianists I admired (e.g., in particular, Chick Corea and Oscar Peterson) which I interpreted as arrogance. I've never had much patience for arrogance. It didn't make sense to me to practice voicings that didn't move me so I quickly decided this wasn't for me. The voicings also seemed to be an exercise in thoroughness which I found overly intellectual. I know Lennie's method has served others well but, of course, we're all different.

 

Having said that, I'm a big fan of Lennie's playing and Lennie the performer has been a significant influence on me.

[Jazzmammal]

Interesting discussion.

 

Love that club. You know a place really loves the music when they have a real grand piano hanging on the wall! I thought it was a painting at first until the camera zoomed in on the bass player, that is real grand hanging up there.

 

That's a cowbell Dave, even worse. He's used to all the big rock concerts where everybody does percussion like Santana does.

 

Bob

[Dave Ferris]

It had more of a "woody" sound then a cowbell . But yeah cowbells are even more obnoxious. And timbales are the worst. Yeah conjures up too many nightmare gigs of Santana Am to D ad nauseam vamps.

 

Back on topic- there are some players that I highly look up to that have integrated part of the Tristano school in their playing, or are known as "Tristano disciples". Alan Broadbent, Clare Fischer, Gary Foster, Warne Marsh and Lee Konitz are the obvious ones that immediately come to mind.

 

This is a great, classic swinging record with Warne, Lee and the aforementioned Sal Mosca.

[video:youtube]

 

And I always liked the Tristano line - "Lennie's Pennies". Here's the great Ted Rosenthal.

[video:youtube]

 

And here's Clare and Gary Foster on Lennie's pennies. Clare's playing the Yamaha EX-42 organpretty trippy.

[video:youtube]

[davef]

I grew up in Lennie's living room guys.

[cedar]

I grew up in Lennie's living room guys.

 

Well, that seems like cheating, somehow.

[davef]

possibly..I was extremely lucky to be drawn to that scene as a teenager, Lennie was THE BEST. Charlie Banacos too!

[Frenchy06]

Zut alors! You guys are amazing. Dave thanks for the great links, last one is not working though

[Legatoboy]

Late to the party because of rehearsals..

 

All I can say is I learned how to play Jazz studying with Bluth and I never every thought I would be able to even get in the door...

 

Larry spent 3 years at Berklee and as I said studied with Sal for many years..I also get a lot of Mr.Bluth in my lessons with a basis from Lennie and Sal so everyone brings part of themselves to the table of course . . but it really opened up the whole world of Jazz for me, not just the Tristano world..

 

One of the best things I ever did for myself in this life!