Outkaster Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I suppose OT but check it out Amazing track/solo ( in my experience ) on essentially ONE CHORD! On re-listening to it, the solo is a bit short, but recently the fellow I heard, played it much longer, and I am certain Junior Walker did as well in live shows. Ever play a song with one chord before? [video:youtube] [video:youtube] Only 1 year ago, it (finally) occurred to me that this solo was only one chord. I used to tour with a band whose solos involved TWO CHORD jams. The difference between soloing on one chord versus 2 chords, to me is very significant in terms of ease of coming up with new ideas. Like a mono food diet of eggs.. versus apples and eggs.. Playing in this 2 chord fusion type band drove ( it is not that easy to play 2 chords for long periods ) this fact home to me, so when I finally looked at Shotgun ( the song and solo I had ignored since its birth ) I was floored by it. A local player here, played it at our our jam, and that is when my eyes opened up. Back to this original topic It is one chord basically but the organ is run dry, no Leslie. The Grove is in G but the lick after he sings Shotgun is G to A minor You can call it G Am but It is basically G and occasional and brief C chords. Dig Am and C are practically the same harmony. ii and IV But you can't say it's like G/// C/// G/// C/// G/// C/// That's a whole other vibe. In Shotguns case the very brief C ( or you call it Am- I never paid close attention to the bass tones ) chord is there just to emphasize the G chord. To use G and C or I and IV, the harmonic rhythm ought to be closer to equal aka one whole note of G followed by one whole note of C etc You said it better than I could. I slide kind of from Am to C. People play it to strict sometimes. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane hugo Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 triple-beam Union Fish Eczema bathroom http://blip.fm/invite/WorkRelease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I suppose OT but check it out Amazing track/solo ( in my experience ) on essentially ONE CHORD! On re-listening to it, the solo is a bit short, but recently the fellow I heard, played it much longer, and I am certain Junior Walker did as well in live shows. Ever play a song with one chord before? [video:youtube] [video:youtube] Only 1 year ago, it (finally) occurred to me that this solo was only one chord. I used to tour with a band whose solos involved TWO CHORD jams. The difference between soloing on one chord versus 2 chords, to me is very significant in terms of ease of coming up with new ideas. Like a mono food diet of eggs.. versus apples and eggs.. Playing in this 2 chord fusion type band drove ( it is not that easy to play 2 chords for long periods ) this fact home to me, so when I finally looked at Shotgun ( the song and solo I had ignored since its birth ) I was floored by it. A local player here, played it at our our jam, and that is when my eyes opened up. Back to this original topic Jimi Hendrix shoulda been in Walker's band instead of his stint with Curtis Knight. Lotsa post-James Brown funk followed his methodology of using a single chord for the basis of a track. He once said something along the lines of "Use an idea for a song; if you have another idea, you have another song." Much music from around the world, particularly classical Indian music, is essentially non-harmonic & doesn't involve progressions. It's also a popular strategy in jazz, although there's usually some motion. Even the Beatles did a track (Tomorrow Never Knows) that's almost entirely a single chord. [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etN0h_e5rvI d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I suppose OT but check it out Amazing track/solo ( in my experience ) on essentially ONE CHORD! On re-listening to it, the solo is a bit short, but recently the fellow I heard, played it much longer, and I am certain Junior Walker did as well in live shows. Ever play a song with one chord before? [video:youtube] [video:youtube] Only 1 year ago, it (finally) occurred to me that this solo was only one chord. I used to tour with a band whose solos involved TWO CHORD jams. The difference between soloing on one chord versus 2 chords, to me is very significant in terms of ease of coming up with new ideas. Like a mono food diet of eggs.. versus apples and eggs.. Playing in this 2 chord fusion type band drove ( it is not that easy to play 2 chords for long periods ) this fact home to me, so when I finally looked at Shotgun ( the song and solo I had ignored since its birth ) I was floored by it. A local player here, played it at our our jam, and that is when my eyes opened up. Back to this original topic Jimi Hendrix shoulda been in Walker's band instead of his stint with Curtis Knight. Lotsa post-James Bron funk followed his methodology of using a single chord for the basis of a track. He once said something along the lines of "Use an idea for a song; if you have another idea, you have another song." Much music from around the world, particularly classical Indian music, is essentially non-harmonic & doesn't involve progressions. It's also a popular strategy in jazz, although there's usually some motion. Even the Beatles did a track (Tomorrow Never Knows) that's almost entirely a single chord. [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etN0h_e5rvI Man oh Man, you hit this out of the ball park... Thanks to you, I just put another piece of the puzzle together on how pop music came to be.. aka James Brown advice. That has been my long time observation about classical Indian music.. which flows into the Beatles timeless track, fantastic. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I suppose OT but check it out Amazing track/solo ( in my experience ) on essentially ONE CHORD! On re-listening to it, the solo is a bit short, but recently the fellow I heard, played it much longer, and I am certain Junior Walker did as well in live shows. Ever play a song with one chord before? [video:youtube] [video:youtube] Only 1 year ago, it (finally) occurred to me that this solo was only one chord. I used to tour with a band whose solos involved TWO CHORD jams. The difference between soloing on one chord versus 2 chords, to me is very significant in terms of ease of coming up with new ideas. Like a mono food diet of eggs.. versus apples and eggs.. Playing in this 2 chord fusion type band drove ( it is not that easy to play 2 chords for long periods ) this fact home to me, so when I finally looked at Shotgun ( the song and solo I had ignored since its birth ) I was floored by it. A local player here, played it at our our jam, and that is when my eyes opened up. Back to this original topic It is one chord basically but the organ is run dry, no Leslie. The Grove is in G but the lick after he sings Shotgun is G to A minor You can call it G Am but It is basically G and occasional and brief C chords. Dig Am and C are practically the same harmony. ii and IV But you can't say it's like G/// C/// G/// C/// G/// C/// That's a whole other vibe. In Shotguns case the very brief C ( or you call it Am- I never paid close attention to the bass tones ) chord is there just to emphasize the G chord. To use G and C or I and IV, the harmonic rhythm ought to be closer to equal aka one whole note of G followed by one whole note of C etc You said it better than I could. I slide kind of from Am to C. People play it to strict sometimes. I hear some kind of C chord- I confess I am not sure of the guitar voicing but it has a Bb in it. So it could be Gm/C or Cm7 or C7 I know I am supposed to know this! If anyone has knowledge of this song? But I do not hear the Am . Btw a famous song that did endlessly alternate between C and Am was "Shout". You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d halfnote Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I suppose OT but check it out Amazing track/solo ( in my experience ) on essentially ONE CHORD! On re-listening to it, the solo is a bit short, but recently the fellow I heard, played it much longer, and I am certain Junior Walker did as well in live shows. Ever play a song with one chord before? [video:youtube] [video:youtube] Only 1 year ago, it (finally) occurred to me that this solo was only one chord. I used to tour with a band whose solos involved TWO CHORD jams. The difference between soloing on one chord versus 2 chords, to me is very significant in terms of ease of coming up with new ideas. Like a mono food diet of eggs.. versus apples and eggs.. Playing in this 2 chord fusion type band drove ( it is not that easy to play 2 chords for long periods ) this fact home to me, so when I finally looked at Shotgun ( the song and solo I had ignored since its birth ) I was floored by it. A local player here, played it at our our jam, and that is when my eyes opened up. Back to this original topic Jimi Hendrix shoulda been in Walker's band instead of his stint with Curtis Knight. Lotsa post-James Brown funk followed his methodology of using a single chord for the basis of a track. He once said something along the lines of "Use an idea for a song; if you have another idea, you have another song." Much music from around the world, particularly classical Indian music, is essentially non-harmonic & doesn't involve progressions. It's also a popular strategy in jazz, although there's usually some motion. Even the Beatles did a track (Tomorrow Never Knows) that's almost entirely a single chord. [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etN0h_e5rvI Man oh Man, you hit this out of the ball park... Thanks to you, I just put another piece of the puzzle together on how pop music came to be.. aka James Brown advice. That has been my long time observation about classical Indian music.. which flows into the Beatles timeless track, fantastic. Brown's mid sixties expansion from trad R&B to funk (Pop's Gotta New Bag / Cold Sweat) took western pop places it had never been & never would've gotten to otherwise. He seldom gets the glory that should be his as a creator. d=halfnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I suppose OT but check it out Amazing track/solo ( in my experience ) on essentially ONE CHORD! On re-listening to it, the solo is a bit short, but recently the fellow I heard, played it much longer, and I am certain Junior Walker did as well in live shows. Ever play a song with one chord before? [video:youtube] [video:youtube] Only 1 year ago, it (finally) occurred to me that this solo was only one chord. I used to tour with a band whose solos involved TWO CHORD jams. The difference between soloing on one chord versus 2 chords, to me is very significant in terms of ease of coming up with new ideas. Like a mono food diet of eggs.. versus apples and eggs.. Playing in this 2 chord fusion type band drove ( it is not that easy to play 2 chords for long periods ) this fact home to me, so when I finally looked at Shotgun ( the song and solo I had ignored since its birth ) I was floored by it. A local player here, played it at our our jam, and that is when my eyes opened up. Back to this original topic Jimi Hendrix shoulda been in Walker's band instead of his stint with Curtis Knight. Lotsa post-James Brown funk followed his methodology of using a single chord for the basis of a track. He once said something along the lines of "Use an idea for a song; if you have another idea, you have another song." Much music from around the world, particularly classical Indian music, is essentially non-harmonic & doesn't involve progressions. It's also a popular strategy in jazz, although there's usually some motion. Even the Beatles did a track (Tomorrow Never Knows) that's almost entirely a single chord. [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etN0h_e5rvI Man oh Man, you hit this out of the ball park... Thanks to you, I just put another piece of the puzzle together on how pop music came to be.. aka James Brown advice. That has been my long time observation about classical Indian music.. which flows into the Beatles timeless track, fantastic. Brown's mid sixties expansion from trad R&B to funk (Pop's Gotta New Bag / Cold Sweat) took western pop places it had never been & never would've gotten to otherwise. He seldom gets the glory that should be his as a creator. I may leave something of importance out, but problem with one chord stuff, is in the hands of neophytes it gets pretty mundane. My problem with Coltrane imitators , they seriously lack in what my first musical god, had loads of: creativity, the search for truth, humilty to study with teachers, ( I studied briefly with Trane's teacher, and he tried to shove religion down my throat- I quit, Trane did not ) perserverance, soul, be bop, Blues, lyricism and even an ascent towards spirituality though music. Just because Southern African American revolutionaries like James Brown and the more lofty Dizzy and Coltrane had a vision, does not mean followers can easily follow! You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 John that is why a good portion of bands covering this stuff somehow miss the mark. They don't get it or the feel of the song so it comes out sounding terrible most of the time. How many good bands have you ever seen covering James Brown or Jr. Walker? Probably not many because they don't understand the feel or what they are playing. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 John that is why a good portion of bands covering this stuff somehow miss the mark. They don't get it or the feel of the song so it comes out sounding terrible most of the time. How many good bands have you ever seen covering James Brown or Jr. Walker? Probably not many because they don't understand the feel or what they are playing. My ( presumably ) Italian Amercan friend you are correct My two permanent themes are: TONE and TIME ( part of time includes corrrect notes and the groove of the notes) TONE is critical though if my tone is not what I hear, my notes will be silly to me. Imagine a guy alerting others, "FIRE FIRE" but in a soft wimpy voice. it is absurd ( value judgement lol ) the tone contradicts the intention if I am trying to play a Headhunters bass line- my tone must have a certain range of characteristics - too far from that tone ( distorted, thin, or boomy ) and I am dead in the water. So not just time, but the tone to make that Time feel right. I just love the open endedness of this thread lol You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadslayer Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Imagine a guy alerting others, "FIRE FIRE" but in a soft wimpy voice. it is absurd ( value judgement lol ) the tone contradicts the intention I actually did hear this once. I was in the parking lot behind my office and I heard over the fence this little Walter Mitty voice say "fire fire" as mildly as you could possibly imagine. It didn't have the desired impact at all. I thought it was just some guy talking about fire in the abstract until I saw the billowing black smoke and heard the approaching sirens. He had managed to set fire to his gas tank while fixing something on his car and apparently wanted to shout the alarm but didn't know quite how. Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyClicker Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 One chord songs... lots of them out there. [video:youtube]09j6vMdKi3E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Imagine a guy alerting others, "FIRE FIRE" but in a soft wimpy voice. it is absurd ( value judgement lol ) the tone contradicts the intention I actually did hear this once. I was in the parking lot behind my office and I heard over the fence this little Walter Mitty voice say "fire fire" as mildly as you could possibly imagine. It didn't have the desired impact at all. I thought it was just some guy talking about fire in the abstract until I saw the billowing black smoke and heard the approaching sirens. He had managed to set fire to his gas tank while fixing something on his car and apparently wanted to shout the alarm but didn't know quite how. Guess he was overcome by emotion. You never know until you are in the situation how you will react! But that is a wild experience you had. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 As a sax player, I've played Shotgun on both sax and keyboard at the same time play the solo, then play the organ chords. The original key for Shotgun is Ab (not G) because of the way it lays on the sax keys. It's pretty clear, to me at least, that Junior Walker played the solo notes first, then fit the song and key to the solo. And the organ part goes I IV I to emphasize the rhythm. I've heard other sax players try to do that solo and they never get close to it. Mostly they do it in a lower key (like G or even E) which changes the way the notes are on the horn. I refused to do it for many years, and still decline unless I'm pressed, because Junior Walker is one of my heroes and it's like trying to play god. Nobody can duplicate Junior Walker's tone, timing, and just plain ol' soul and funkiness. That's what the original recording is about. Yeah, it's soloing on one chord, but damn there's so much soul in that sound. You can play the same organ riffs as Jimmy Smith on the same organ, but you will never sound like Jimmy Smith. Same thing as playing Shotgun on sax. These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 As a sax player, I've played Shotgun on both sax and keyboard at the same time play the solo, then play the organ chords. The original key for Shotgun is Ab (not G) because of the way it lays on the sax keys. It's pretty clear, to me at least, that Junior Walker played the solo notes first, then fit the song and key to the solo. And the organ part goes I IV I to emphasize the rhythm. I've heard other sax players try to do that solo and they never get close to it. Mostly they do it in a lower key (like G or even E) which changes the way the notes are on the horn. I refused to do it for many years, and still decline unless I'm pressed, because Junior Walker is one of my heroes and it's like trying to play god. Nobody can duplicate Junior Walker's tone, timing, and just plain ol' soul and funkiness. That's what the original recording is about. Yeah, it's soloing on one chord, but damn there's so much soul in that sound. I would not dare to try sax solo on Shotgun And yes it is I IV I But Not I IV I the way we normally think of I IV I Shotgun's use of the IV is merely ornamental and as you said for rhythmic purposes only.. Theory stuff: I don't think Shotgun can be seen as I IV I because of bass notes and because Junior is not really soloing on the IV chord. I realize there are short appearances of a IV chord.. but It is basically a I (dominant kind) of sound . edit: I wanted to show a song that would contrast with Shotgun and came up with Joe Cocker's Feelin' Alright But you know what, I have gotten myself into a little theoretical confusion here. Question when songs have a I IV kind of harmony are we really playing the IV chord as much as the I chord? Here's my confusion If I am playing in Blues inspired song ( ShotGun, Feelin Alright , Everyday I Have the Blues etc etc ) It is obvious that my solo on I will be a Blues scale in the key of I But honestly when I go to the IV Do I really switch my KEY center up a fourth ? The chord goes up a fourth, yes... I IV, but the tone center is the same. Now this is ALSO true, I can play a Blues that reflects the IV tonality- wait a second// Time to get specific I can play a C blues, and when C blues harmony goes to F ( IV chord ) I suppose I have a choice of C Blues scale or F Blues scale but mostly it's all about the C blues. Back to Shotgun (or even Feelin Alright which has a longer IV chord) When I soloing on them am I really going to make the IV chord harmony my aim? It seems like the I chord in Blues dominates over the IV chord, but I may be all wet with this. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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